Talk:Mexican hat dance

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On 10 December 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Jarabe Tapatío to Mexican hat dance. The result of the discussion was moved.

merger

They are two names of the same dance, one used in the United States, the other in Mexico. Personally I'd rather see it remain Jarabe tapatío, (which would actually require a move), but naming conventions seem to point in the direction of favoring Mexican Hat Dance as "the most common form". But they definitely need to be merged (and probably purged of the pop cultural references), unless anyone has any major objections.--Rockero 02:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Rockero, both articles refer to the same dance. My preference also goes to the (original) Spanish name, complete with the proper accented form ("tapatío"). The English name, while more widely recognized, seems to me like a makeshift, incorrect, and vague translation (I don't believe most Mexicans would recognize "el baile del sombrero"). If English speakers know it by the more popular "incorrect" name, then that's what redirect pages are for. Wikipedia seeks to provide the most accurate information, and Jarabe tapatío is the song's proper name.

In short, the merger point seems straighforward to me. The name is secondary, but IMHO, the Spanish is a more appropriate article header. Rod ESQ 21:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since Rod's is the only comment in 2 months, I'll carry out the merger as proposed: merge to Jarabe tapatío.--Rockero 23:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's funny how often Wikipedia gets it ass backwards. The song is "The Mexican Hat Dance". An English speaker will type that into the search box. That the redirect will take care of it is beside the point. This is the English language Wikipedia. The song has an English title, the only title anybody knows, and that "i" thingie does not exist in English. (By the way, this song is the Mother of All Song Viruses.) --Milkbreath (talk) 01:31, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The song is "Jarabe tapatío". The English speaking world calls in "The Mexican Hat Dance". Should we rename the tortilla article to "little round cake"? Maybe the Danse Macabre should be changed to "Dance of Death"? It doesn't matter what the song is known as in English. The name of the song is "Jarabe tapatío". --WiteoutKing (talk) 15:21, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that what you're saying is not what the Manual of Style says. From Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Article_titles (my bolding): "Article titles should conform to Wikipedia's naming conventions, including "Use English"." From Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Use_the_most_easily_recognized_name: "Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. This is justified by the following principle: The names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors, and for a general audience over specialists. Wikipedia determines the recognizability of a name by seeing what verifiable reliable sources in English call the subject." Where you say it doesn't matter what the song is known as in English, Wikipedia says that it only matters what the name is in English.

To answer your examples, "tortilla" is an English word, which the Oxford English Dictionary lists as a main entry without comment and defines as "A thin round cake made of maize-flour...". "Dance of Death" would not be a correct translation for "Danse Macabre", but it depends what you mean. The article Danse Macabre should probably be renamed "Dance of Death", but the article Danse Macabre (Saint-Saëns) should stay as it is because of the popularity of the musical piece under that very name in English. --Milkbreath (talk) 15:43, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article seems to be conflicted over whether it about the dance or the song or both. If the focus is on the dance, Milkbreath's reasoning is sound, as "Mexican hat dance" is the more recognizable name to English readers. But if the focus is the song by González-Rubio, "Jarabe tapatío" is its formal title.--2600:1008:B041:5D4C:70B2:CF4B:747E:3A46 (talk) 20:17, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be re-titled 'Jarabe Tapatío (Mexican Hat Dance)', giving due emphasis to its true origin, but not at the expense of Anglophones who would find the Spanish-only title meaningless. Valetude (talk) 23:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

music

so who created the awesome music for this dance? Whoistheroach 15:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalize

How can this article be renamed with tapatio capitalized? It should be since it is a title. Tmangray 21:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Spanish, only the first letter of the first word is capitalized in the titles of creative works (unless the title contains a proper noun).--2600:1008:B041:5D4C:70B2:CF4B:747E:3A46 (talk) 20:05, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:31, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy Hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:46, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Audio file

Could anyone add an audio file? (The typical riff would be perfect if the whole song is too long.) Thanks in advance? George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 11:47, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lacks more in-depth info

For one, in the times these were Spanish empire it arrived into today's Venezuela and Colombia and the noun evolved into Joropo. Joropo is the national dance of Venezuela today.. 201.183.163.174 (talk) 00:56, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved to Mexican hat dance with consensus of a lowercase title per MOS:DANCECAPS. (non-admin closure) cyberdog958^Talk 00:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jarabe Tapatío → Mexican Hat Dance – Per WP:COMMONNAME. This article's main title header started being discussed nearly two decades ago under section header Talk:Jarabe Tapatío#merger, above. Geographic names as well as political, economic or sociocultural topics from outside the English-speaking world are usually indicated under those topics' original forms unless there are obvious English-language equivalents, such as in this case. Thus, in the same manner that, for another obvious example, Ciudad de México redirects to Mexico City, Jarabe Tapatío should redirect to Mexican Hat Dance instead of Mexican Hat Dance redirecting, as it currently does, to Jarabe Tapatío. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:19, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support with lowercase: Mexican hat dance. And the current title is also over-capitalized. Dance names are not generally proper names. Dicklyon (talk) 05:51, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Mexican hat dance. Ngrams show a preference for Mexican hat dance. Theparties (talk) 18:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The use of uppercase/lowercase has been inconsistent, with some sources using "Mexican hat dance" and other sources, such as The New York Times indicating "Mexican Hat Dance". I support either form, per preference of consensus. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, usage is mixed. Our guidelines are to use lowercase in that case. Dicklyon (talk) 02:37, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom, common name in English. Uppercasing is more commonly recognized by well over 2/3rds presently and widely known as the common English name historically. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:13, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You mean well under two-thirds for the last half century. This is not what MOS:CAPS means by "consistently capitalized" in sources, as you well know. Why do you love capitalization so much? Dicklyon (talk) 19:29, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lowercase per MOS:DANCECAPS, "Viennese waltz", etc. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.