Talk:Mehdi Abrishamchi

Divorce information

Iskandar323, the divorce between Maryam Rajavi and Mehdi Abrishamchi is already mentioned in this article. There is a detailed section about the MEK going through the ideological revolution in the MEK article. If you’re interested in expanding that information, that’s the section (and article) where to do it (I will expand that section further shortly). Cherrypicking one aspect of the ideological revolution and putting it in this article would be a WP:NPOV fail. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:07, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

@Fad Ariff: The divorce is not already mentioned in the article. The infobox does not count. Assuming good faith, and that you simply do not understand this yet, please read the WP:INFOBOX guideline. Infoboxes, likes leads, are no replacement for material in the actual body: "keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article (an article should remain complete with its summary infobox ignored". So you are removing reliably sourced relevant biographical details for no good reason and going against policy. You mention WP:ONUS, which has next to no relevance in the context of including basic biographical details in a biography. You don't think marriages and divorces should be mentioned? Maybe not names or years of birth either? In fact, why have biographies at all? Regarding your hollow utterances regarding WP:NPOV; I've explained that at Talk:Massoud_Rajavi#Marriage information. If it's not NPOV, what POV is missing? Iskandar323 (talk) 19:35, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

You changed the title from "Ideological revolution" to "Divorce information". That is a misrepresentation of the issue since the new information you were trying to add was about the MEK’s "ideological revolution". If you want to add information about the MEK’s ideological revolution (which Mehdi Abrishamchi’s divorce to Maryam Rajavi was only a small part of), then the section "Ideological revolution and women's rights" deals with that in context. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:15, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I have explained in detail how the information is not already in the article, as the infobox does not count. Either address this point or I will have to assume that you are either not acting in good faith or have basic competency issues - something I will regretfully have to report. I suspect you read the guideline, admit your fault and work cooperatively. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:09, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Challenging your edits does not mean to be at "fault" or "uncooperative". Abrishamchi's marriages are already in the article (Abrishamchi was married to Maryam Rajavi from 1980 to 1985. Shortly after, he married Mousa Khiabani's younger sister Azar.) If you want to add content about the MEK’s ideological revolution, that's a different matter altogether.

Several times I have linked WP:ONUS for you to read.

"While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content."

If you read it, then I don't know why you would continue to think that just because you're cherrypicked a couple of lines with no context, then that means it must be included in the article. If you don't agree with my challenge, deescalate and start a RFC, like user:Bookku suggested [1]. If you don't want to start a RFC (even though this is content that you are trying to add, not me), I will start one. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:02, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

RFC

I opened the RFC because there was a dispute, but the editor who was disputing has not participated, and there has been minimal participation from other editors, so I’m removing the RFC. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:03, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Should the following sentences be added to the article?

"In 1985, they divorced so that she could marry the leader of the MEK Massoud Rajavi and become co-leader. The divorce was justified on the basis that the relationship between the two new co-leaders was "a matter of revolutionary necessity"."

Yes or No? Fad Ariff (talk) 13:02, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Survey

• No in adherence to WP:CONTEXTMATTERS, WP:CHERRYPICKING (or WP:PLAYPOLICY?), WP:NPOV. The MEK’s "Ideological Revolution" was multi-faceted and involved several things including challenging forced marriages and women's equal rights in Iran to counter in some ways the Iranian regime’s repressive policies against women (policies that are still being protested today in Iran). All of this is outlined on the MEK page’s section "Ideological revolution and Women’s Rights", so adding these two cherrypicked lines with no context here would be a clear violation of NPOV. Since MEK article already sets out examine this in context, then WP:ONUS also applies: "While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article." Fad Ariff (talk) 13:06, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Discussion, Opinions and comments

• Comment

• My Understanding, If I am not wrong: In 1985 leader of Iran's ideological political opposition party MEK namely Massoud Rajavi appoints Ms. Maryam, wife of Mehdi Abrishamchi another leader of own party at top rank as part of equal opportunity for women. Soon Maryam divorces Abrishamchi and marries Rajavi. How to depict this divorce and new marriage in related WP articles is the question.

• • My above understanding is from Talk:Massoud Rajavi#Marriage information.

• Important: IMHO discussion deserves better women Wikipedian participation, so advising to communicate this RfC to Wiki projects Wiki projects Women in Red & Green
• My opinion:
• 1) Marital alliances for political purposes are frequent enough in global political history and nothing to be afraid about mention of divorce and marriage if R.S. available. IMHO What is written about on English Wikipedia is unlikely to influence mainly Persian speaking society and politics in Iran. So Wikipedians better focus on encyclopedic values than own political baggage.

My understanding is some RS is available based on official statement from the political party. But I doubt any autobigraphical or personal admission based refs are likely to be available.

• 2) The above said marriage seems legal by Iran and legitimate by conservative religious standards too. One possibility is the lady valued her political career and rather than leaving any chance to any negative rumors among then Iranian conservative society preferred official marriage.
• 3) Language of present sentence seems subtly insinuating and judgemental, subtly intending to raise question in readers mind about divorce for politics. In a way judging decisions. Is it possible to write dispassionately without insinuation ? may be by using word political instead of ideology and revolution or some thing else. Bookku (talk) 16:34, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Revert by ParadaJulio

ParadaJulio: On 9 June, Iskandar323 made this edit [2] expanding the personal life section. You reverted it [3] saying that these were lacking in constructive value. Could you elaborate on what is wrong about the new content? A priori, I don't see how they can dismissed as simply unconstructive. MarioGom (talk) 17:57, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I too would like to know what is not constructive and why you are following the same pattern of edits as a blocked disruptive user. As mentioned on Talk:Maryam Rajavi, this is pretty basic biographical information. I fail to see a possible objection. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:45, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

The change This was justified on the basis of the new relationship being "a matter of revolutionary necessity is being observed in the MR page. ParadaJulio (talk) 15:10, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

That is still not a reason for removing the core biographical details. The version you have reverted to has Mehdi marrying and then marrying again without intermission. Conventionally, one needs to divorce to re-marry, unless one is taking on a second wife, in which case that needs to be noted, but here that is not the case; there was a divorce. Now I can see only two possibly reasons why you would be deleting this: 1) one is that you have some tendentious reason for doing so (though Lord knows what POV could benefit from attempting to cover up the blindingly obvious), or 2) that you have such sweeping WP:CIR issues that you either do not read what you are reverting or cannot see that deleting the clearly articulated information about a divorce between two marriages is disruptive. Unless you get around to self-reverting pretty promptly, I am going to feel rather compelled to present these two hypotheses at an appropriate venue. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:17, 13 June 2023 (UTC)