Talk:Margaret Sibella Brown

Sibella vs Sybella

There are references to both a Margaret Sibella Brown and a Margaret Sybella Brown ("i" vs. "y" in middle name), both of whom lived in Nova Scotia, and both with a father named "R. Brown". It is unclear if these are the same person with alternate spellings of her name, or two different people. For example, this photo and this other photo are clearly the same person, but with the two different name spellings. On the other hand, most of the sources I can find for Sibella talk about her being a bryologist, and most of the sources for Sybella talk about her being a nurse. Very confusing. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Upon further research, it seems clear that the various sources all refer to the same person. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:19, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Additional sources

• "Brown, Margaret Sibella (1866-1961) on JSTOR". plants.jstor.org. Retrieved 23 April 2020.
• "Margaret Sibella Brown". nsis.chebucto.org. Retrieved 23 April 2020.
• "Harvard University Herbaria & Libraries". kiki.huh.harvard.edu. Retrieved 23 April 2020.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Margaret Sibella Brown/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AleatoryPonderings (talk · contribs) 06:20, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• The level of genealogical detail in "Family and early life" is excessive (see WP:NOTGENEALOGY. I also don't see a cite for her birth date or birth place. Could you provide that?

Added a citation for birth date & place. I'll go through and work on thinning the level of detail tomorrow.

• Can you pick either dmy or mdy dates? Both are used.

fixed.

• This might be a "me" confusion, but I always thought finishing schools were in lieu of education at the university level? So I find it surprising that she attending both University of King's College and the Anglo-German Institute. Maybe some additional explanation here would be helpful. Could you also say when she got her BA?

Not sure what to say about the finishing school. That's what the source says: "Margaret was educated at the Anglican School for Girls in Halifax and the Anglo-German Institute finishing school in Stuttgart". Oddly enough, another source says, "She took graduate studies at Stuttgart". I'll admit, "finishing school" and "graduate studies" don't quite go together in my mind, but that's what the sources say. There's no mention in the sources I found of what her BA major was, or when it was granted.

• "it was unusual to find women working in the sciences". Is there a reason you don't say "women scientists were unusual" or something like that? "Find women working" is rather elliptical.

Rephrased.

• I have tagged the paragraph beginning "Brown died in her Halifax home" with {{cn}}. Could you address that? It may be as simple as adding the cite from the following paragraph to this one. Also, was there no obituary or equivalent? A secondary source would be best to confirm that "Margaret Sebella Brown" is the same as the subject of this article (although it of course seems quite plausible).

Fixed.

• I don't see the encyclopedic value of File:Margaret Sybella Brown and Elizabeth Brown as adults.jpg. I guess it depicts her with plants, but they don't look like mosses ...

A photo of the subject in her home seems useful, but if you feel strongly about it, I can remove it.

• Can you explain how [1] is a reliable source? The live link is a redirect and the archived copy looks like a self-published RTF file.

Hmm, it was just the wrong URL. It's an official history of the society, which seems reliable for who was a member. I've updated the URL to point to the copy on the society's website. The URL that was there pointed to what looked like some early draft. I'm not sure where that came from.

• Is it possible to explain a bit more about her scientific impact? I see the awards listed, with accompanying citations, but I was left wondering when I read this: what contribution(s) make her a notable scientist?

Yeah, I get what you're saying. The gist is she was basically a upper class society girl from a wealthy family at a time when most girls like that majored in being a rich society girl, but instead she made some recognized contributions to science. The problem is, writing that would be rather blatant WP:OR. I'll come back tomorrow and see what I can do here.

Actually, I think what you're looking for is the 2nd sentence of the lede: "Although lacking formal scientific training...".

Passed it. The genealogical stuff was my main outstanding concern and I addressed it to my satisfaction. I also added more details about her scientific contributions, which resolved the remaining concerns I had about that. Comprehensive to the extent the subject allows for it, clearly written, references good and there are cites in the right places, the British Bryological Society ref is fixed. Neutral, illustrated, stable. Meets the criteria. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 15:42, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

@AleatoryPonderings thank you for the quick review and all your help. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:12, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Why no via?

@Srich32977 regarding Special:Diff/1251561805, I'm fine with changing the dashes, but I'm curious why you deleted the via=[[JSTOR]] attributes from the citations. RoySmith (talk) 21:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

When JSTOR is a parameter in the citation, it will render as "JSTOR". Thus it becomes redundant clutter. – S. Rich (talk) 21:19, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, makes sense, thanks. RoySmith (talk) 01:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Other possible relatives

Just noting these here for future reference and research

• Richard Brown (Canadian politician)

References

RoySmith (talk) 14:23, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Peer review

Margaret Sibella Brown

Brown embarked on a scientific career in the early 20th century when very few women went into science. Despite her lack of formal scientific training, she made major contributions to the field of bryology (the study of mosses). I started writing this about seven years ago at an edit-a-thon sponsored by NYBG. I think it would make a good FA, despite its short length; I'm pretty sure I've found everything there is to find about Brown in WP:RS. I think the GA review it got was a little bit of a softball, so bringing it here for a more critical look before I nominate. Thanks, RoySmith (talk) 18:00, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

DoctorWhoFan91

• "World War I when cotton": comma in between
• at major herbaria: at few/several major herbaria(depending on how many there are)
• Family and early life: "She had a twin sister, Elizabeth Purves (1866–1951), as well as three younger siblings: Annie Ethel (1869–1918), Richard Charles (1872–1951), and Lillian Seward (1878–1967).[3][4]": move this (and reword slighting to fit) to where "The eldest children were twin sisters Margaret and Elizabeth, followed by Annie, Richard, and Lilian.[3]" is, and remove the latter (and merge the left behind first sentence with para 2)
• Scientific career:"Entosthodon neoscoticus" This would be notable per NSPECIES, so probably shouldn't be a red link
• Why did she decline the PhD- there must have been a reason?
• Brown's middle name is variously spelled Sibella, Sybella, or Sebella, in different sources. Although her death certificate uses Sebella, Sibella is used in this article, as that is the spelling most commonly used in sources talking about her scientific career.[2]: This should be in a note in the lead or infobox, not at the end
• More detail would be good- you can't find more, so maybe someone else can recommend more sources to you, if any can be found

That's all from me. Mostly seems FA quality to me. Good luck when it goes to FAC. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 10:00, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

@DoctorWhoFan91 Thank you for the review. I've taken care of most of these. As I remember, the reason the bit about the various name spellings was not in a note is because I had given up trying to fight with VE, {{efn}}, and reference citations to make them all play nice together. I took another shot at it and think I've finally made it work. When I was doing the original research for this, the multiple spellings I kept finding, in conjunction with the fact that the family kept reusing "Margaret Sibella" in three different generations drove me nuts until I figured it out :-)

As for the PhD, unfortunately, all the source says is Never having sought a college degree, she resolutely declined Acadia's offer of an honorary PhD, accepting the MA instead. The implication is that she felt she didn't deserve it, but to say that would be WP:OR. I'd appreciate any additional suggestions you could make here.

About the redlink, I agree there should be an article, but I'm not qualified to write it, so I think leaving it as a redlink is the best I can do. RoySmith (talk) 17:59, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

I have, however, stubbed out a couple of other redlinks. RoySmith (talk) 19:54, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Good work! DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 20:03, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

I did another round of searching and found some more material about Sidney Mines and her family[2] but it doesn't say anything about Margaret. I'm trying to figure out how much material from there it makes sense to add without shifting the focus of this article. RoySmith (talk) 23:30, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

@DoctorWhoFan91 I've made a few more additions, I'm going to go ahead and put this on FAC. I feel much more comfortable about it with the improvements you suggested. Thanks again. RoySmith (talk) 22:28, 27 January 2025 (UTC)