Talk:Manchester Debating Union

	Greater Manchester portal This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Greater Manchester, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greater Manchester on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Greater ManchesterWikipedia:WikiProject Greater ManchesterTemplate:WikiProject Greater ManchesterGreater Manchester articles
Low	This redirect has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Debating (inactive)

This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Debating, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.DebatingWikipedia:WikiProject DebatingTemplate:WikiProject DebatingDebating articles

Changed universities in the first para to higher education institutions to reflect, say, the membership of BPP students (BPP isn't a university). any objections, just change it back 78.105.143.73 (talk) 15:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

Not sure the MDU meets WP:CLUB - cant find and third party ref's to it on google news etc. Codf1977 (talk) 14:16, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

Still unable to find WP:RS supporting notability of the Debating Union. I am therefore proposing that it should be merged with University of Manchester Students' Union, it could just as well go to University of Manchester what is the consensus ? Codf1977 (talk) 19:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Such a merge would be inappropriate because the Manchester Debating Union is not part of the University of Manchester Students' Union, and is not purely for students of the University of Manchester. It is an umbrella organisation for debaters from various higher education institutions in the city of Manchester, including the University of Manchester, Manchester Metropolitan University and other institutions. Dorange (talk) 12:49, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Given that it's domain name is part of the University of Manchester, should it go there then ? The reason for the suggestion of University of Manchester Students' Union is that the article implys that is who funds it, is that correct ? Do you know of any WP:RS supporting notability of the Debating Union as I am unable to find any ? Codf1977 (talk) 12:56, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've never been a member of the MDU and I don't know where its funding comes from. But I do know that's not an organisation that's purely for students from the University of Manchester, and therefore merging it in the way you have suggested would be inappropriate. Dorange (talk) 13:04, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Thank you for that - Further to my comment above, the Debating Union website has the University of Manchester Students' Union logo on, further implying a very close tie. I will look to see if there is another page that may be better suited. Codf1977 (talk) 13:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      - Further to the above, I have been unable to find anything more suitable than the University of Manchester Students' Union to merge this article into - as The Debating Union fails WP:CLUB, WP:UNIGUIDE and fundamentally WP:GNG and given that given the postal address of the Union is listed as University of Manchester Students’ Union, the fact the domain name they use is part of the University of Manchester , the University of Manchester Students' Union logo is on the website - I think that merging it with University of Manchester Students' Union is the best all round option. Codf1977 (talk) 17:12, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        The fact that the Manchester Debating Union may get some funding, web hosting and administrative assistance from the University of Manchester Students' Union doesn't prove that it's an official society of the Union. Unless we can confirm that it's any official body of the University of Manchester Students' Union (and I'm not sure whether it is or not) then it shouldn't be merged to that article. To merge without being sure of the nature of the links between the 2 organisations could be creating a very misleading impression for Wikipedia readers. Purple Watermelon (talk) 13:21, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        It seems clear that there is no consensus with regard to any merge - I will remove the tag. However that does still leave the question of the Unions notability for a standalone article. Codf1977 (talk) 14:08, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In a google search for WP:RS I found this link to the University of Manchester Students' Union website and a list of UMSU Societies - that would appear to confirm that they are a University of Manchester Students' Union Society. I am therefore reinstating the Merge Tag. Codf1977 (talk) 14:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Futher to the above - on the University of Manchester Students' Union website, in the section called societies faq it says, in answer to the question Do I have to be a student at the University of Manchester? - Our societies are generally open to anyone who wishes to join, whether or not you're at student at Manchester University. Just check out the societies list on our website to sign up online. - so it would appear that the fact the Manchester Debating Union membership is open to all is not uncommon for University of Manchester Students' Union societies. Codf1977 (talk) 14:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If that's the case, I personally have no objection to a merger. Dorange (talk) 19:25, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a section to the University of Manchester Students' Union article called Manchester Debating Union here all that is left is to add the relevant talk page templates (Template:Merged-to & Template:Merged-from), update Template:University debating, fix any other wiki links and put in the redirect, before I do that I want to give other editors a few hours to make any more comments.Codf1977 (talk) 08:42, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]