Talk:Luccombe, Isle of Wight

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Requested move 18 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 07:07, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Luccombe → Luccombe, Isle of Wight – DAB from Luccombe, Somerset. No primary topic [[1]] considering this one doesn't show up on OS. It is also an alternative name for East Chelborough which can also be included on the DAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:04, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support; none appears to be primary. ╠╣uw [talk] 08:47, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 9 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Brad v 04:58, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Luccombe, Isle of Wight → Luccombe Village
Luccombe, Somerset → Luccombe

– This settlement is actually called "Luccombe Village" [2]. I propose we move the Somerset article to the basename instead over the DAB, and link to the other 2 articles. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:07, 9 August 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 17:28, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The current title is preferable. Though the official name may be "Luccombe Village", sources like Google Maps and Apple Maps identify the community simply as "Luccombe"; going with that shorter common form seems best. I'd also be concerned that visitors might not be able to clearly distinguish between the two settlements solely on the basis of the presence or absence of the word "Village", given that it apparently is not consistently applied in common use. ╠╣uw [talk] 11:49, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The OS a reliable third part source that most other sources use. Hatnotes on both articles should be enough. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:34, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'd also point out that difference in names is used with Aller (Germany)/River Aller and River Welland/Welland River. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:38, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting per request at my talk page. Dekimasuよ! 17:28, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment. The proposal is currently phrased in terms of favoring an WP:OFFICIAL name. Perhaps there is an argument to be made about the official name, but the OS name has little bearing on whether or not a disambiguation page is necessary, because it has already been demonstrated that Luccombe, Isle of Wight is at least sometimes called "Luccombe". Whether or not the disambiguation page is necessary or any of the pages should be moved hinges upon whether the names are in general, not official, use–and there hasn't been any evidence presented to show either that "Luccombe" usually refers to the place in Somerset or that the location on the Isle of Wight is usually called "Luccombe Village". The question is not whether to favor Google Maps over OS, but what a preponderance of sources show. Evidence on this point would be helpful. Dekimasuよ! 17:39, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The proposal may appear to be phrased in terms of favoring an official name but it isn't. The OS is a reliable third party source that many other sources use. For example City of Lancaster is called "Lancaster" and "Lancaster District" by the OS even though "City of Lancaster" is the "official" name. I'd point out that a Google search for "Luccombe Village" returns quite a few results (with upper case) for the IOW place. The other point is that if the Somerset village is the only "Luccombe" then a hatnote to this and East Chelborough would do per WP:PRECISION and WP:2DABPRIMARY. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:01, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If moving the Somerset article to the base name is rejected, the first move of moving the place on the IOW to Luccombe Village could still take place. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:43, 26 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 20 September 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved Sceptre (talk) 01:41, 13 October 2019 (UTC) (closed by non-admin page mover)[reply]

Luccombe, Isle of Wight → Luccombe Village – Per WP:WIAN as noted this is the name on the Ordnance Survey thus being consistent with the OS in other cases. "Village" is a proper noun and this per WP:SMALLDETAILS this is allowed since although the Somerset one is a village it doesn't have village as part of the name. It can be seen from a Google search of "Luccombe Village" that "Village" is only capitalized when referring to the Isle of Wight location but not the Somerset location [3][4][5][6]. See this GBook result for example where the Somerset one is referred to as "Luccombe" and the IOW one as "Luccombe Village". Consider for example the city in the united states called "New York" is commonly known as "New York City" therefore its acceptable to have city without brackets (like New York (city) unlike Dallas City, Boston City and Los Angeles City. Similar examples would be Mercury Planet, United States Country, Wikipedia Website and Donald Drump President which aren't part of the name even though they are all instances of such. As can be seen from Street List the IOW one is actually a hamlet not a village anyway but similar to Isle of Lewis its acceptable to use a name that the topic isn't an instance of as long as its a proper noun see User:Crouch, Swale/Called v is and where. Given the concerns raised about the fact that the IOW one is sometimes just "Luccombe" I'm not proposing that move this time thus the DAB can remain at the base name. Also note that "Luccombe Village" already redirects here and I fixed it after the move to continue pointing here (which was when I discovered that this one is actually "Luccombe Village"). Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:58, 20 September 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Google maps, Bing Maps and local road signs all refer to this simply as "Luccombe". The OS has an error here by the looks of it. Jeni ^(talk) 11:39, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I checked the street view around road junctions and similar but couldn't find any signs. On old maps its indeed just "Luccombe" but its quite possible its now called "Luccombe Village" because of Luccombe Road in Shanklin just like the Nacton Road area in Ipswich is often called "Nacton" and the village as "Nacton Village". Surely "The place-names of the Isle of Wight" and "A Dictionary of British Place-Names" are at least good enough to show that at minimul this is WP:Natural disambiguation however if this article's scope is changed to also include the Luccombe Road area then maybe it would be best to stay at the current name. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:43, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I see no value in this request... It proposes to swap one ambiguity, with a barely-recognised entity that only the OS mentions, for another one with a larger and notable village in Someset. And saying "Luccombe Village" is actually something people do, unlike the mentioned "Mercury Planet", "Donald Trump President" examples. The same request was rejected last year, so time to leave this one be. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 17:41, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well the proposal last year for this and moving the Somerset village to plain "Luccombe" failed because some sources call the IOW one plain "Luccombe" and therefore primacy for the Somerset one hadn't been established. This time only the IOW move is being proposed due to that concern. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:50, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If there was a film or album etc called "Donald Trump President" do you think it would need disambiguation so that "Donald Trump President" could redirect to "Donald Trump"? I think not. Of course people say the one is Somerset is a village they would say "Luccombe" village not "Luccombe Village" but its not part of the name unlike this one as I have shown from Google. A fine case of WP:SMALLDETAILS. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:33, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru: do you have any evidence that the one in Somerset is ever called "Luccombe Village"? It is a village but its not called that and even if it was occasionally the IOW one could still be primary for this term. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:45, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. It's also called Luccombe, as shown by the sources and a google search. Keep at the less ambiguous title, as recommended by the guideline. DrKay (talk) 12:55, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Being "also called" doesn't preclude another term being the best title of natural disambiguation. Bury St Edmunds is sometimes called "Bury" but that doesn't mean we need to move it to Bury, Suffolk. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:41, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.