Talk:Los Bravos

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Johnny Halliday cover

Could we include the French cover done by Johnny Halliday under the title "Noir c'est noir"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99phlP_e2Rw --Sd-100 (talk) 23:21, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name issue (Las vs Los) and Tony Anderson membership

Tony Anderson, older brother of Yes singer Jon Anderson, is reported by many sources to have sang in a band called "Las Bravos". I have been trying to clarify whether this is actually Los Bravos. The italian wikipedia article it:Los Bravos actually reports Tony Anderson as being a member of Los Bravos, but this goes unreferenced. A quoted Google search "Tony Anderson Los Bravos" reports a single link ([1]) along with the suggestion to change the search to "Tony Anderson Las Bravos". In favour of the "Tony Anderson in Los Bravos" argument, it must be mentioned that Los Bravos recorded for Decca, and Tony Anderson did as well (with The Warriors (British band)). If the bands are one and the same, it should be clarified why both names widely appear on Google (did they change name at some point of their career)? Moongateclimber (talk) 09:23, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update: the mentioned single link for "Tony Anderson Los Bravos" mentions Tony Anderson as "Andy Anderson". A search for "Andy Anderson Los Bravos" actually return lots of Google hits. It thus seems reasonable to conclude that the italian wikipedia is right about Anderson being in Los Bravos; he must have changed its pseudonym from Tony to Andy sometimes along the way. Now the question remains if the name "Las Bravos" is altogether incorrect or a variant that the band actually used. Moongateclimber (talk) 09:30, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lineup changes

As a consequence of the above discussion, it seems that there have been personnel changes in the band that are not documented in the article. The italian wikipedia (still unreferenced, but worthy of credit, as it seems from above) says (I am rephrasing and translating): "After the death of Fernández and the departure of Mike Kogel/Kennedy, Mike Kogel was replaced by Bob Wright and later by Anthony Anderson, older brother of Jon Anderson. The band thereafter disbanded, and only occasionally reunited". The same article also mentions the following members: Angel Salvador (bass, in 1967 moved to Italian band "I Ribelli"), Antonio Martínez, and Pablo Sanllehí. Moongateclimber (talk) 09:35, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Which is all well and good. However, we can not use the Italian Wikipedia as a source, and the confusion over Tony/Andy Anderson, and Los/Las Bravos, rings plenty of warning bells for me as to the validity of any of this. Very good work on your research by the way, but we need a couple of good reliable sources before leaping further forward. It is not unreasonable to suppose that line-up changes could have occured, but without the verifiable cites, frankly all is supposition. This is what the internet partly thrives upon. Albeit unwittingly, the Italian version of this may well be presently fuelling that speculation.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:43, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I agree on that. It needs further investigation and reliable sources, my intent was to put clues in stock in here as an aid for willing researchers. Moongateclimber (talk) 11:13, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK - that's fine. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 11:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems there is little doubt that Los Bravos had personnel changes and that some Andy Anderson was in the band as a singer, specifically in the 1969-1971 period. See for example [2] and [3]. YouTube has videos of Los Bravos with Andy Anderson [4] who, besides being the spit copy of his younger brother (and having a similar voice), is reported by a number of sources to be Jon's brother. Note that this plenty of sources is very varied (not clones of the italian wikipedia or some common source) besides being in three languages: spanish, italian, and english (which makes sense as the band is spanish and they played in Italian's music festival of San Remo). Thus I think the fact that Andy Anderson played in Los Bravos and was a brother of Jon can be considered settled. Also, Los Bravos are actually reported by multiple sources to have had personnel changes, and actually YouTube videos with different singers are proof. I think DiscoDG [5] and possibly "Rate Your Music" [6] can be considered reasonably good sources. Note that Los Bravos actually recorded some hits with different lineups than that mentioned in the article, and this too can likely be supported by videos and disc covers in the worst case. On the other hand, there is no reliable source mentioning name "Las Bravos", and all disc covers and labels report it as "Los" (which is also more correct in spanish). I will try to organize sources and update the article as referencedly as needed. Moongateclimber (talk) 14:56, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Allmusic cites the personnel of their 1968 album Bring a Little Lovin' as Miguel Vicens Danus, Manuel Fernandez, Mike Kennedy, Michael Kogel, Antonio Martinez, Pablo Samllehi, and Pablo Sanllehi.[7] Bearing in mind that Manuel Fernandez committed suicide in May 1967, and the latter two named are almost certainly typos of the same person. Is Pablo Gomez (as in the Wiki article) and the latter Pablo's the same person ? Confusing, t'aint it ?! - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely. Allmusic is not doing a good job here too, it feels like they did scan liner notes or something without putting too much brain into it. In fact it is also pretty understood that Mike (Michael) Kogel and Mike Kennedy are one and the same (he is sometimes referenced as Mike Kennedy/Kogel). It seems he changed pseudonym along the way. Keep diggin' :-) Moongateclimber (talk) 16:34, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Revisiting the points above

For the record, I would be surprised is "Las Bravos" was ever used - the correct Spanish is "Los Bravos".

Also, note that the normal Spanish naming system is two surnames, the first is the primary surname and the second is sometimes omitted. So Jesús Glück Sarasibar might be referred to as Jesús Glück.

The Discogs site now mentions Anthony Anderson. I suspect Andy Anderson was a mistake or misunderstanding.

http://www.los-bravos.com/english/biography.html refers to Anthony Anderson.

The Spanish wikipedia lists the original members as:

Michael Volker Kogel Sumaya "Mike Kennedy" (Berlín, 25 de abril de 1944)
Antonio "Tony" Martínez Salas (Madrid, 3 de octubre de 1944 - Colmenar Viejo, 19 de junio de 1990)
Manuel "Manolo" Fernández Aparicio (Sevilla, 29 de septiembre de 1942 - Madrid, 20 de mayo de 1968)
Miguel Vicens Danús (El Ferrol, La Coruña, 21 de junio de 1943)
Pablo Sanllehí Gómez (Barcelona, 5 de noviembre de 1943)

-- Beardo (talk) 23:39, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

songwriting credits for "Black is Black"

is there any good reason you list the two male writers but leave Michelle Grainger out from the song writing credits of Black is Black? Wefa (talk) 19:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Probably because the source quoted; Murrells, Joseph (1978). The Book of Golden Discs (2nd ed.). London: Barrie and Jenkins Ltd. pp. 206/207. ISBN 0-214-20512-6; states, and I quote because I have the book in front of me, "The song was written by Tony Hayes and Steve Wadey..." No mention of Michelle Grainger. Looking further afield and AllMusic only quotes those two here. However, the same source has her name listed here, albeit largely relating to various cover versions of the song. 45cat.com, perhaps not deemed that reliable as a source, nevertheless has a picture of the single's record label here, which does cite Grainger. I would not know if there was some dispute over the songwriting credits at some point. Maybe ? Anyhow, a long standing Wikipedia editor, whom I have had dealings with over a lengthy period of time here, is usually very good at detective work, so I will ping him for a second, or is it a third, opinion. @Ghmyrtle:

PS. Although the "Black is Black" article itself has listed Michelle Grainger for around ten years or so, there is no cited source given.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a very quick look, and I don't understand why Grainger's name is omitted. Original copies of the single and the band's album seem to credit her as well as the other two - see here and here for example. I'll add Grainger's name to the article. Incidentally, all three songwriters seem to have vanished almost without trace, which seems odd for the writers of such a big hit. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:26, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS: There's quite an informative article here - personally I'd be happy to use it as a source. Nothing specific about the songwriters, though again Grainger is mentioned. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:25, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]