Talk:List of hazing deaths in the United States/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about List of hazing deaths in the United States. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Note for Local?

I think it might be helpful if a Note was made after the name of the Greek Letter Organization if it is a Local. I believe that is what is done in Nuwer's book.Naraht (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Works for me. Bali88 (talk) 05:48, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Military hazing

The military is notorious for hazing. Isn't that correct? Why is military hazing conspicuously absent from this list? Is there any reason for that? Does anyone know? For example, is it the case that the military is better at keeping these incidents "hush hush" and away from the media? I can't believe that to be the case, however, if deaths occur during the hazing. This list at present has literally one military hazing incident in the past 200 years. Any thoughts or insights? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:33, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

If you can find them, please do add them! Jack Jarosz and Oscar Booz are included on the list and they are military deaths, but yeah, not much turned up in the searches that I attempted. They may just be better at covering them up, but who knows. Bali88 (talk) 13:51, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

It seems that info on military hazings is hard to find. They probably do engage in more "cover up", I suspect (than, say, a college frat). Also, the military has its own separate criminal law system. So, because the cases generally would not end up in the "normal" court/criminal justice system, perhaps the media is not on top of it as much. And maybe the military court system hearings are private, not open to the public and media? Who knows? In any event, military hazings are highly under-represented on this list. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:37, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Hazing deaths outside of the United States

This article is about hazing deaths in the United States. Does Wikipedia have any articles about hazing deaths outside of the United States (i.e., other countries)? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:34, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Aside from the list of notable hazing events on the general hazing article, no. The reason I decided to cap it at just US deaths is because Asia is ridiculous with hazing deaths. Just insane numbers of brutal deaths there. You're welcome to write one though. Bali88 (talk) 23:40, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Oh, did you create this article? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:20, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Yup! :-) Bali88 (talk) 01:59, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

That's great! Thanks. I never knew that this article existed. And I only stumbled upon it by chance. Thanks again! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:06, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Suicides due to military hazings

Is there any reason why these two cases (Suicide of Danny Chen and Suicide of Harry Lew) are not included in this article? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:26, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

I just hadn't gotten to it yet. Certainly they fit with the criteria. You are welcome to add them. Bali88 (talk) 01:58, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. When I get some free time, I do plan to work a little on this article. I am "new" to this article, so I was not sure if the two cases I pointed out were excluded for some reason. Technically, they died of suicide, and not by hazing. Isn't that correct? Even so, you think they should be included? What exactly is the criteria for inclusion? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:10, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

The criteria is that it is described as a "hazing death" in the media, so you'll need to find an article describing it that way. Benjamin Klein died in essentially the same way: he was hazed so brutally he killed himself. Basically if can find a causal link between the hazing and their death, it counts. Bali88 (talk) 02:51, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Both Chen's and Lew's deaths were both described by the media as related to hazing and, after Chen's death, investigation and courts-martial of soldiers, the Army said it was renewing its official opposition to hazing in its policies.Parkwells (talk) 14:05, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

You may need to create a separate article for military hazing deaths. There have been several suicides in recent years related to hazing, more than the two examples noted above, with other targets Muslim minorities and others. The Harry Lew Military Hazing Accountability and Prevention Act was signed in late 2016 as part of the Nat'l Defense Authorization Bill for 2017 requiring DOD to have policies against hazing in all services, track it, etc. This article will be buried if you add military deaths as well. Parkwells (talk) 17:25, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Gerund fix

Basic grammar Possessive adjectives with gerunds

"Davis died after being brutally beaten as part of a hazing ritual. He was unconscious when he was driven him home and put to bed."

is incorrect because of the duplication "him", leave it out — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.183.207.39 (talk) 21:39, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Fixed.Naraht (talk) 23:44, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. If you find grammatical things that are unlikely to be controversial fixes, no one will mind if you edit the article yourself to fix them. Bali88 (talk) 01:17, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Deletion proposal

While this topic is a tragedy for the families of those who died during these initiation ceremonies, I'm not quite sure this list is at all relevant for an encyclopedia. Therefore, I think it should be deleted.--InterPersonalAutomaton (talk) 12:15, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome to propose it for deletion at AFD, but I suspect you won't have very much traction. It has been ranked as mid-importance on wikiproject death and has quite a few daily views. Bali88 (talk) 12:35, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Bali88.Naraht (talk) 14:29, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

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