Talk:List of fictional antiheroes

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No consensus, 3 June 2022, see discussion.
keep, December 31, 2006, see discussion.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about disagreements on a cited anti-hero's placement (see WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, and WP:V for relevant policy regarding why we don't decide which characters are anti-heroes). Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about disagreements on a cited anti-hero's placement (see WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, and WP:V for relevant policy regarding why we don't decide which characters are anti-heroes) at the Reference desk.

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Frequently asked questions

Q: I think X is an anti-hero because of insert characteristics here. Can I add them to the list?

A: If you want to add a character to the list, you have to have a reliable source explicitly calling them an anti-hero. Adding a character based on your opinion (even if you are correct and your character fits the criteria) is original research and will be removed.

Q: I disagree with X's placement on this list. They're not an anti-hero because insert reason here. They should be removed.

A: Assuming that the anti-hero in question is properly cited, it stays. Again, like the previous question, removing a character based on a personal opinion would fall under original research.

Q: What would be considered a reliable source?

A: For specifics, see WP:V and WP:RS. For the most part, published reviews and articles from third-party sources tend to make up the majority of sources here. Blogs, fan-sites, forums, wikis, etc, are not considered to be reliable in this case.

Film

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Fictional characters

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Donnie Darko

Donnie Darko, the main character of a film by the same name, is a prime example of an anti-hero in my opinion. To put it simply, he commits all sorts of crimes at first, but then ends up saving the universe. -Hazethebassist (talk) 23:00, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia needs reliable sources, not personal opinions. If you don't have a reliable source that says that Darko is an anti-hero, then that is original research on your part and it should be deleted. Edward321 (talk) 00:05, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll find a source, just give me a little time. Are there guidelines on the sources? 174.31.145.37 (talk) 16:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC) (Hazethebassist)[reply]

I found one, but somebody may want to clean up my work, since I'm not the most professional Wikipedian. Also, if you need more sources, someone else can find one, because I don't know what to look for in a source. -Hazethebassist (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a blog or a wiki, which seems to be what 90% of the people who bother to list a source use. (Obviously, those are not reliable sources.) I think the one that you found should be good enough for inclusion in a list. Edward321 (talk) 23:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not part of Wikipedia but I do believe that someone who is should add Damon Salvatore to the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.15.36.108 (talk) 01:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gollum revisited

Any objection to moving Gollum to the film section? The article cited (which is now a 404 error and should be relinked through the Internet Archive) was Serkis talking about the movie version of Gollum, and not the book version. Gollum certainly was not a hero (or antihero) in Tolkien's work. --Stevehim (talk) 03:19, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 05:58, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the list is entirely debatable and dependent on personal opinion - for example, Stephen Dedalus of Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man, it could be argued, is a hero to secular society —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.195.197.192 (talk) 21:35, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's why people are supposed to cite a reliable source that says a specific character is an antihero. Bowser being a playable character does not make him an anti-hero. Some guys blog or another Wiki won't work, either. If you've got a reliable source and include it in your edit, feel free to add Stephen Daedalus to this article. Edward321 (talk) 03:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Crow

Might I suggest that "The Crow" also belongs on this list? James O'Barr's graphic novel version could be listed under comics.

Nytebreid (talk) 08:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)Nytebreid 11/3/10[reply]

While I think he does, too, Wikipedia is not about personal opinions, its about finding reliable sources that support the claim. Edward321 (talk) 12:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing Problem

I have just added Eric Draven (The Crow), William Munny (The Unforgiven), Jackson Teller (Sons of Anarchy), and The MacManus Brothers (Boondock Saints) to this list. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get the format down for my references to stay. Any suggestions?JTBA75 (talk) 11:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Short term, I have removed them as unsourced. What are your sources? Have you looked at how existing sources are listed? Edward321 (talk) 15:14, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Forgotten antihero?

Could Edmond Dantès from The Count of Monte Cristo technically be an antihero? --24.229.63.177 (talk) 17:43, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bryan Mills from Taken, Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad and Darth Vader are all antiheroes too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Futuremoviewriter (talk • contribs) 07:37, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick Bateman?

What about Patrick Bateman from American Psycho? His own Wikipedia page mentions him as an 'Antihero' and gives two sources, one of which is broken. This is the working link, where the article states Patrick Bateman as being an antihero.

EDIT: Sorry, I never looked under the "Literature" section, he is already there. Unable to delete this as I do not have an account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.38.21 (talk) 14:53, 16 December 2011 (UTC) http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/jun/12/breteastonellis — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.38.21 (talk) 14:50, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mad Max

Max Rockatansky from the Mad Max series is also an embodiment of the antihero due to his appearance as well as his reluctance to help out others and ultimately sacrifice himself for the greater good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.205.8.154 (talk) 07:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adding context of each character?

I don't know why they are called anti-heroes. This list looks plainly opinionated and originally researched to me. How do sources verify characters as anti-heroes? --George Ho (talk) 07:52, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

3/17/13 I agree, many of these should be considered Byronic heroes, which are ancestors to antiheroes but not the same thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.17.182 (talk) 17:14, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lord Byron

Lord Byron's works defined the modern antihero. At the very least Conrad (The Corsair, 1814), Don Juan (Don Juan, c. 1818-1824) and Byron himself (from his semiautobiographical epic Childe Harold's Pilgrimage (1812–1818)) should be in any list of this sort. 184.56.230.216 (talk) 22:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Girls of How to Rock

I consider Kacey Simon, Molly Garfunkel, and Grace King to each be antiheroes. David Israel told me on Twitter that he agrees, a little. I propose that they each be added to the list of TV antiheroes then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Futuremoviewriter (talk • contribs) 02:29, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your opinion, my opinion, and some guy on Twitter;s opinion are all irrelevant. Wikipedia requires reliable sources. Edward321 (talk) 14:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

David Israel is the writer of the show, hence, his opinion is not irrelevent and he is reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Futuremoviewriter (talk • contribs) 23:38, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Someone on Twitter claiming to be the writer for the show does not meet Wikipedia guidelines for reliable sources. Edward321 (talk) 00:18, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Twitter is David Israel's and therefore, a reliable source. (talk —Preceding undated comment added 06:31, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Twitter is still not a reliable source. Please read [1]. Edward321 (talk) 15:52, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

red hood

I added Jason Todd the red hood I was going to try to put a link but i didn't do it correctly so I don't can't. the Wikipedia article on Jason Todd also says he's antihero and uses IGN as a link for that in that wiki article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.184.128 (talk) 20:37, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Red Hood and link

Okay, I finally managed to figure out how to link it. I used the IGN article that was used on Jason Todd's wiki page. Since its good enough for that wiki, its good enough of a source here as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.184.128 (talk) 04:35, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are This Character Anti Heroes?

-Lev Peskov from The Century Trilogy -Impmon from digimon tamers (3rd series) -Kick Ass (Dave Lizweski) -The 3 protagonists of GTA V — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.41.148.76 (talk) 08:30, 6 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Elric of Melniboné

Really, the opening of this wiki page alone should convince anyone to add him to the literature list, but just keep on reading and there should be no doubt. http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Elric_of_Melnibon%C3%A9

But he is the arch typical antihero, pretty much all he characteristics listed earlier is found with this character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.167.14.32 (talk) 06:57, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It does not matter whether you or I think a character is an antihero. Wikipedia requires reliable sources. Edward321 (talk) 16:04, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even see the link? There should be sources there...

In any case, he's pretty much the original antihero in the fantasy genre... Just do a simple google search for Elric and antihero, and you will find a lot of sources... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.167.14.32 (talk) 12:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He's also mentioned on this article a couple of times as being an anti-hero. http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Michael_Moorcock Here's someone analyzing the character: http://www.stainlesssteeldroppings.com/elric-of-melnibone-michael-moorcock — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.167.14.32 (talk) 20:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The website does not meet Wikipedia guidelines on reliable sources. The Wikipedia page Micheal Moorcock provides no sources for the opinion that Elric is an anti-hero. Edward321 (talk) 21:58, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

James Bond

SchroCat reverted my edits for James Bond. But per this page they had no reason to do so: "Each of these examples has been identified by a critic as an antihero, although the classification is somewhat subjective. Some of the entries may be disputed by other sources and some may contradict all established definitions of antihero." I provided a legitimate source for literary bond, and now I have several others for literary Bond. Regardless of whether Bond is cited by more sources as simply being a hero or action hero and not an anti hero, this page says that as long as "a critic" (even if 999 other critics disagree) from a reliable source considers a character an anti hero, they can be on the list. I have three books and several other web based sources from newspapers and magazines. So I have the right to put it back up, which I will. Kinfoll1993 (talk) 22:32, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your sourcing looks good, especially considering this page has been a magnet for unsourced or poorly sourced opinions. Edward321 (talk) 16:23, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Edward321. Kinfoll1993 (talk) 16:43, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, James Bond is not an anti-hero, especially not at the time he was written. He may have traits that in 2021 would be undesirable, but at the time, a womanizing assassin was a perfect hero. Wubbox (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Does a Review calling some fictional character an anti-hero qualify?

I've authored two books, featuring my character Charlotte Aiken. I was going over the reviews for them tonight on Amazon and the most recent reviewer stated "Charlotte is the perfect anti-hero." I have no idea who this reviewer is, as s/he made the review under the name "CMT."

I've had people tell me Charlotte was an anti-hero, but here it is in print now for the first time.

Joseph Steffen

An Amazon review is not a reliable source. You would need a review by an actual critic. Edward321 (talk) 03:55, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Classification of anti-hero

I think the classification of anti-hero needs to be highlighted in this topic. To my mind, there are two types of anti-hero - one being the sort that are previously amoral types who throughout the course of the narrative become heroes (e.g. Snake Pliskin, 'Escape from New York')or the types who do not, and are not going to reform, e.g Hannibal Lecter. The first kind - are they really anti-heroes, or heroes by 'stealth'? The second kind are more realistic and appear in literature or media that doesn't compromise with the viewer to create a means of redemption, to give us that warm fuzzy feeling at the end that means there's hope for us all. A true anti-hero just is, from the one-dimensional cowboy bad guy, to those damaged or psychopathic like Alex in 'A Clockwork Orange'Cheshire Writer (talk) 10:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the article already has this but I am going to still comment about anti-hero should include:

previously amoral types that become heroes (this also includes former villains that were victims of the archenemy.)
Heroes with sociopathic behaviours such as Alexandra Cabot from Josie, Thirty Thirty from BraveStarr, and McCoy & Worf from Star Trek.
And finally, wanted criminals such as Robin Hood. In Correct (talk) 05:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Walter White Question

Can Walter White from Breaking Bad be classified as an antihero? Mr. Brain (talk) 19:54, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Multiple Adaptations?

The character Fritz The Cat appeared in comic book (as this article has listed him) but he also has appeared in film. Also, Alexandra Cabot (From Josie and The Pussycats, not Law & Order ... is in an Archie Comics but also appeared in Television and Film.) Currently Alexandra is not in this article but this is still a problem when the characters appeared in multiple adaptations. Batman and Catwoman are other examples. Can I move these into a new table? In Correct (talk) 03:35, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why are villains being listed as anti-heroes?

Why are characters like Beetlejuice being listed as an anti-heros? As I recall, he was the villain of the piece, with the couple having to save the daughter from his attentions?

Your own definition of an anti-hero lists the character in question as the protagonist of the piece. One could make a case for either the Maitlands or Lydia Deetz as the protagonists, NOT Beetlejuice himself.

imdb link 68.207.135.148 (talk) 14:47, 22 January 2017 (UTC)Wynni[reply]

The short answer is WP:V.

The long version: We cannot have a "List of X's" with a series of long arguments over whether or not each item is or is not and "X". Wikipedia does not present "original research" which is what each entry would be. Instead, we need to have reliable sources that directly state that each item fits the list.

In this case, the source cited says "Beetlejuice is the titular anti-hero..." - SummerPhD^v2.0 18:48, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Additions to Movies

Maybe this has been asked before, maybe it hasn't. But if you have John Constantine and The Punisher listed in Movies, TV, & comics, why not also add Batman & Deadpool? Those 2 are listed in comics, but not either in movies or TV. Aidensdaddy2k9 (talk) 22:49, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The anime/manga section

The anime/manga section could include any character from tokyo ghoul or tokyo ghoul: re, with the exception of furuta, and various other members of V — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.220.239.186 (talk) 05:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rorschach

needs adding. Spicemix (talk) 21:40, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of poorly sourced entries

Going with the clean-up tag, I'll be removing numerous entries on here that are unreliably sourced, not labeling the character as 'anti-hero' in the source, not sourced at all, or having a dead source. I’ll also be removing sequels/related works for certain entries that only have the source for a particular entry (Crank 2, for ex.). Barely made one (talk) 00:06, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Thomas Covenant deserves a place in this list.

Thomas covenant, anti hero archetype known from "The chronicles of Thomas Covenant" is all too human and flawed to be anything near a hero, yet despita all his flaws .. you have to read the books.. Take it from me and anyone who has read the books, a truer anti-hero is hard to find. 83.101.80.204 (talk) 03:40, 11 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

List of Fictional Antiheroes Page Issue

Hey I was on the List of Fictional Antiheroes page and some presumably 13 year old girl added Ash Morgenstern (from one of the hundreds of vapid Cassandra Clare books) with the comment "U go Ash (insert a dozen exclamation points)"

Not sure about the procedure for reporting issues but here you go..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.14.178.149 (talk) 20:29, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some potential candidates

Jacket (Hotline Miami)

Biker (Hotline Miami)

The Fans (Hotline Miami 2)

Ichi (Ichi the Killer)

Kakihara (Ichi the Killer)

Ash Williams (Evil Dead series)

Herbert West (Re-Animator series)

Marceline (Adventure Time)

Mr. Krabs (Spongebob)

Squidward (Spongebob)

Postal Dude (Postal series)

Divine (Pink Flamingos)

Filthy Frank (The Filthy Frank Show)

Guts (Berserk)

Wilbur Soot ?? (Dream SMP) Meepingmorp (talk) 16:26, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wilbur Soot DSMP

Could Wilbur Soot be considered an anti-hero within the Dream SMP ? Since its a minecraft role-play there wouldn't be any 'reliable' sources in terms of media reviews and official opinion but the DSMP wiki does offer a lot. Meepingmorp (talk) 16:25, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia doesn't allow fandom wikis to be used as sources. Wubbox (talk) 14:07, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

There is no consensus currently whether to split the list. It seems prudent to await the outcome of the current discussion on scope before discussing a potential split of the content. Felix QW (talk) 19:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This large, convoluted list must be split into multiple ones, and I have made a request here. --Kailash29792 (talk) 06:40, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would strongly prefer cutting down the list first, per WP:TRIVIA. A list of this nature always has contentious content, and I do think the list is worthwhile, but Wikipedia is not TVTropes, and a list of this nature shouldn't seek to document every single fictional anti-hero with a wikipedia article (and almost certainly shouldn't list characters without standalone articles). I think if we looked at the article's sources, identified sources like "Top 10 Greatest Literary Anti-heroes" and limited the article to listing characters discussed as notable or paradigmatic anti-heroes, that would be much more appropriate. As it is, this article is a trivia-magnet. - - mathmitch7 ^{(talk/contribs)} 14:45, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Removal of sourced entries

Lately, I've noticed users removing sourced entries because they disagree with those entries, such as Special:Diff/1019204610. Thoughts? –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 16:57, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

batman isnt an antihero. As well as sources from screen rant arent reliable because screen rant isnt official reliable source. As well as hulk and iron man. No where in their biography over thr net it say they are antiheroes 46.71.151.137 (talk) 22:24, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adding Rocky Balboa

Hello everyone! Is Rocky Balboa a typical antihero? Because at the beginning of the first movie, he was a lone fighter in the ring who worked for low wages, just like Wolverine did at the first movie of X-Men. If yes, I would recommend to add him to this list. Please reply! Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.109.170.177 (talk) 00:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Are there sources that describe Rocky as an antihero? BD2412 T 17:29, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List criteria

This list has no clear WP:LISTCRITERIA. That is at least a major part of why it is such a mess. The recent AfD closed as no consensus because (per the close) editors were more-or-less split between improving the list and getting rid of it altogether. So let's try to improve it as much as possible. It may be the case that even the best possible version of this list is still not satisfactory and we would be better off getting rid of it (perhaps instead writing about the most important examples in prose form in the main Antihero article as was suggested in the AfD), but at least then we'll know whether we can bring it up to an acceptable standard for Wikipedia or not and can let that inform further discussion about how best to handle the situation.

As I said during the AfD, I would suggest adopting criteria akin to those used at List of military disasters: only include entries where multiple (i.e. at least two) reliable sources specifically dealing with the subject of fictional antiheroes refer to the character in question as an antihero. That way, we should only end up with bona fide examples that are generally (or at least fairly commonly) considered antiheroes rather than unduly presenting WP:Minority viewpoints where perhaps only a single person thinks the character is an antihero whereas everyone else thinks they're a regular hero or an outright villain. The subjectivity of the term (and some sources applying it rather loosely) was of course an issue that was brought up repeatedly during the AfD. I would be in favour of having a fairly high threshold for what to consider a WP:Reliable source in this context, one that would exclude e.g. a listicle by Screen Rant. I am unsure about whether or not to restrict entries to characters with stand-alone articles, since I can see pros and cons with both (though it may very well be a moot point since one would expect characters who have featured heavily in literature on fictional antiheroes to also meet the relevant notability requirements).

Ping all the editors from the AfD: @LaundryPizza03, Dream Focus, Clarityfiend, Zxcvbnm, Reywas92, Rorshacma, Piotrus, Daranios, Jontesta, Shooterwalker, Jclemens, Bookworm857158367, BD2412, and Ritchie333: Thoughts? TompaDompa (talk) 17:21, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is no encyclopedic justification for committing intellectual suicide. If multiple reliable sources describe a fictional character as an antihero, that suffices. By comparison, if a new Senator is elected from Rhode Island, we don't exclude them from a list of Senators from Rhode Island merely because all the sources that predate their election omit their name. If a fact can be established by reference to reliable sources, then the context of that establishment is irrelevant. BD2412 T 17:27, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Whether someone is a Senator from Rhode Island is an objective fact, whereas whether a character is an antihero is a subjective assessment. TompaDompa (talk) 17:37, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As I told you in the AFD Information in any article only needs one reference to prove it if its in doubt. No reason to require more.. Just wasting everyone's time. And the "listicle" as you call it is fine, a reliable source mentions different antiheroes, then it counts. Dream Focus 17:38, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And as I told you in response, you are categorically incorrect in that absolutist assertion since our policy on WP:Exceptional claims explicitly says Any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources. And for something like this list, where it's not a matter of facts but rather subjective assessments, requiring multiple sources may simply be a reasonable application of WP:WEIGHT so as not to unduly include the views of tiny minorities. TompaDompa (talk) 17:42, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's for Fringe theories and to prevent scam artist from tricking people. Dream Focus 17:46, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that we do actually sometimes require multiple sources, which you should already know because Eddie891 gave you the different example of WP:BLPPUBLIC in the discussion at Talk:List of military disasters#Proposal for list criteria a year ago and furthermore made the point that something not being done doesn't mean that it can't be or shouldn't be. TompaDompa (talk) 17:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Since when is describing a fictional character as an antihero an exceptional claim? Jclemens (talk) 17:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be fine leaving it be if the inclusion criteria are limited to notable entities only (i.e. ones that have a stand-alone article), and of course the entry is referenced - with a quote, preferably. As for listicles on ScreenRant, meh, I'd let it go, I don't like them in the context of establishing notability, but they seem fine for such lists. I mean, using a crappy list to reference a crappy list is somewhat fitting :P Anyway, I'd like to remove non-blue linked entries on this list, as well as all unreferenced ones. Any objections to the former (the latter, per WP:V, should really not be objectionable...)? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:25, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Jclemens that classification of a character as an antihero is not an exceptional claim. I see a certain subjectivity of the term, in which case WP:LISTCRITERIA suggests requiring a reliable source as the solution. So I personally am fine with keeping with having one source. I do see "some sources applying it rather loosely", and that there may in some cases be an issue with WP:Minority viewpoints. I don't think that's a big issue, as we surely have many non-controversial examples to balance others. I would have not problem with asking for multiple sources to deal with that in the spirit of "something not being done doesn't mean that it can't be or shouldn't be", though it would be quite a big amount of work to fix a small problem. If we should agree to such a requirement, we should not throw the baby out with the bath water, however: Most entries here have only one source, because earlier contributors would not have expected that more are needed. So entries with one source should then only be removed, if there is good reason to believe that no other sources will substantiate it, i.e. after a search for such sources has been done. I would have a problem with requiring sources "specifically dealing with the subject of fictional antiheroes". I don't know exactly what that means (I guess the discussed "listicles" would qualify here after all), but I think such a requirement could promote a new kind of bias: On Wikipedia we want to include all the world's knowledge. Summary works concentrating the concept of antihero will invariably be limited (presumably mostly to Western world fiction) and prevent us from including information from (reliable) works analyzing individual works of fiction, areas of popular culture or regional fiction more in-depth. Daranios (talk) 15:07, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If they have a reference, leave them be. Some characters might not have their own separate Wikipedia article, but the series they are in does. Dream Focus 15:18, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The claims are controversial because it's likely to be disputed. Screen Rant isn't rigorous about what makes a hero an anti-hero, and the list is too WP:INDISCRIMINATE to create an article that meets Wikipedia standards. The article should have been deleted. But at least it needs a clean-up with higher quality sources. If we can't find a consensus around improving this article, that would be strong evidence that the article cannot be improved, and it should end up back at AFD. The suggestions from Piotrus should be an uncontroversial place to start and I would urge this towards better sources as Screen Rant is considered less than reliable at WP:RSP. Jontesta (talk) 23:21, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources reads: There is consensus that Screen Rant is a marginally reliable source. It is considered reliable for entertainment-related topics, but should not be used for controversial statements related to living persons.'

So that source is fine. There is no real dispute. A reliable source, clearly listed on the list of reliable sources, calls someone an anti-hero, then they belong on the list. Dream Focus 23:27, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Benson Dunwoody and Chick Hicks could be anti-heroes?

Hi friends i saw some pages and videos from these characters who are/were anti-heroes:

Chick Hicks from the Cars franchise: He in Cars 3 appears as the minor antagonist (because Storm is the main antagonistic jerk) and Cars 3: Driven to Win appears as the anti-heroical central main antagonist (because he congratulated Lightning and Ramírez because they defeated a jerk and they saw Miss Fritter chasing Storm at the end of the videogame)
Benson Dunwoody from Regular Show: Benson sometimes will be a hero and an antagonist but in some episodes from Regular Show describing as him is the anti-heroic deuteragonist

NRR EL 95 (talk) 13:13, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@NRR EL 95: As you can see from the discussion above, there are some concerns of this list becoming an indiscriminate collection of examples. So probably only characters should be included where reliable sources say they are an antihero, but not those where there is only circumstantial evidence. Daranios (talk) 16:02, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Suoerheroes being anroheroes

Aravela 13 screen rant isnt an official reliable source as well as cbr.com. in nowhere does it say batman is an antihero 46.71.151.137 (talk) 22:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's Always Sunny

No mention of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?! For shame that Charlie Kelly, Dennis Reynolds, Deandra "Dee" Reynolds, Ronald "Mac" McDonald and Frank Reynolds have not been entered into this list as anti-heroes. L2J1086 (talk) 01:44, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Shelby

Great list but thomas shelby should definitely be included 143.159.200.23 (talk) 08:46, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only if there's a reliable source that describes whoever that is as such. Cat's Tuxedo (talk) 22:27, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]