Talk:List of cities in New Zealand

Article reorg

I have cleaned out this talk page, most of the comments were a year old and no longer relevant. The main contributors were: Jonathan Ah Kit and kiwiinapanic.

I have rearranged the article into 3 parts:

• a discussion of two ways the term "city" is used in New Zealand
• a list of "informal" cities
• a list of city councils

I think the first list of cities is more relevant to most people, although city councils are definitely important too, and their dates of creation/demise are interesting.

The list of "informal" cities is open to debate. I have produced a starting point, based largely on Statistics New Zealand concept of a "main urban area", with a few changes:

• Napier and Hastings are separated
• Hamilton is separated from Te Awamutu and Cambridge
• Kapiti is left off the list

What is the status of Hutt City vs Lower Hutt City? To the best of my knowlege, Hutt City is just a trading name just as Wellington Regional Council trades as "Greater Wellington".

I think the last section can still be tidied up somewhat.

-- Ben Arnold 2004-03-25

---

Hi Ben, thanks for the changes. I think it's a better version, as the one I hocked up pissed off people who thought their district was a city and I was being too pedantic. :) I'd trouble trying to figure out a way of listing cities that weren't legal cities.

Seriously, this is the story on Lower Hutt. Before 1991:

• City name: Lower Hutt
• Name: Lower Hutt City
• Council name: Lower Hutt City Council

After the special Local Act was passed (I think the bill was introduced by the Western Hutt MP of the day, Joy Quigley, when she was still using her married name), it became:

• City name: Lower Hutt
• Name: Lower Hutt City
• Council name: Hutt City Council (actually, because Hamilton City Council existed, and had the initials HCC, for a while they'd call themselves The Hutt City Council and took the initials THCC, you could argue that was the trading name. Now the council doesn't care.)

As you can see, the only change was the council's name. Noone had thought in the dark days of 1991 that one could just make up a trading name like the Wellington Regional Council and half the other regional councils have done. Today's situation is pretty much as follows:

• City name: Lower Hutt, aka Hutt City
• Name: Lower Hutt City, aka Hutt City
• Council name: Hutt City Council

It confuses the hell out of people, really, especially when the 'welcome' signs on SH2 say 'Hutt City', and annoys many a Upper Hutt resident.

Anyway, thanks again for the changes. :) --Jonathan Ah Kit 12:01, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Porirua pop.

That "40,000" (approx) for Porirua must be wrong. "We" had nearly 48,000 at the census, and I'm sure I read recently in one of the local papers that the 50,000 was now probably reached.

I can't check the obvious official external link, because those PDFs that talk about local authority popns actually seem to have only regions.

robinp 01:23, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You're right, that was a typo. I feel like I killed off 10,000 people! I've gone back and double-checked the rest of the figures, putting 100 more people in Gisborne, but the rest were okay. I've also reworked the comment about Kapiti Coast District: the Statistics NZ Kapiti Urban Area includes only those 3 towns and doesn't include Te Horo, Otaki, Otaki Forks etc. Ben Arnold 01:45, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Ben. And now that I realise you HAVE been to this page I can edit my earlier comment on the "project" page you created at http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_New_Zealand_Places - and either you or I can work a link to this into it :Robin Patterson 02:06, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Too many photos

Isn't 16 photos far too many for this article? Nurg (talk) 01:48, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

City Status: Confusion Reigns

Comments above are well out of date and quite misleading. This main article page needs a healthy overhaul. It is full of uncited contradictory opinion. For example, confusing an urban area (village, town, city (version 1) etc) with an administrative area (district, city (version 2), region). I wanted to start editing the page but as I read through it I realised the futility of changing a sentence or two here and there. IMO the whole page needs rewriting. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 03:33, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

50,000

I notice that the reference Gadfium has included (this one) to support the assertion that an urban area must have a population of at least 50,000 before it can be 'proclaimed as a city', actually defines the naming of territorial authorities, which may only use the term a 'city council' if they meet that population criterion. Restricting its usage only in the specific context of the name of the authority. It doesn't directly define the word itself but rather the naming of the territorial authority. I can see how the implication could be drawn, but it could also be interpreted as meaning that with smaller cities under a certain population such an authority can't define itself with a term that implies focus on the urban area rather than the district as a whole. For more efficient resource management for instance. Without an explicit and direct definition of the word by itself it would seem like WP:OR to extrapolate from this. Also to note, Upper Hutt's territorial authority is named as a city council and it doesn't have a population of at least 50,000.219.88.68.195 (talk) 02:15, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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New Plymouth's population

In the article, New Plymouth has a population of 57,500. However, according to this article, New Plymouth has a population of 74,000. There is a significant difference between these two population figures, but the population figures for all the other major cities are very similar. I wonder which source is more accurate? 2001:8003:8612:EA00:9F2:A7B0:76BC:F1BA (talk) 08:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Christchurch earthquake

According to 2011 Christchurch earthquake, population loss following the earthquake "saw the Christchurch main urban area fall behind the Wellington equivalent to decrease from second to third most populous area in New Zealand" – with fuller discussion and references. Surely this should be mentioned somewhere in this article. GrindtXX (talk) 17:07, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Rename this article

Without going into the detail which I cannot remember precisely, Timaru is a city by a Royal grant or similar back in the 19th century. That stands outside local govt legislation. The title should be renamed to refer to legislative cities, or something similar. In any case, Timaru should be on the list unless the title is changed. I expect some opposition from editors who love having everything fit tidily into a organised box where exceptions and ambiguity play no part. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:16, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

That's quite interesting. I don't agree with renaming the article, whether or not Timaru is to be included. I have never heard of this before, but by glance, it appears that its city status has been disputed due to some agreement[1] which I think is what you're referring to. There apppears to be a population threshold of 50,000 which Timaru does not meet. I think the more important point you've raised here is whether the article Timaru should be describing it as a city, as it currently does. ―Panamitsu (talk) 09:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I see this has been discussed in the past on Talk:Timaru including by Roger 8 Roger and it might be worth revisiting. ―Panamitsu (talk) 09:25, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

There are actually four lists of urban areas in the article. The last list, the one of historical cities, does include Timaru. It has done since the article was created in 2002. Nurg (talk) 09:53, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Nelson became a city in 1858 by virtue of its cathedral. There is no mention of a "City of Timaru" during the Borough era in Papers Past and most mentions of a "Timaru City" are of a brass band and a rifle brigade of that name. Brass bands do not need to gain the approval of the Local Government Commission to name themselves. Otherwise there are a few poetic or ironic references to Timaru having a "city centre" (and a lot of accidental results where constructions like "Christchurch City, Timaru Borough, etc" get picked up), until 1948 when the Borough officially becomes a City. https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19481117.2.7 Daveosaurus (talk) 10:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, thank you Panamitsu, that discussion was a long time ago but it was partly still in my memory. The 50,000 population is only relevant for the urban governed area which for Timaru includes, I think, four other towns, which collectively are just under 50,000. But, that isn't the point here. We are talking about a grant of city status a long time ago by the monarch that is still in place and is unaffected by the 1989 act.I think it is similar to city status in the UK which has traditionally been given to towns with a cathedral, hence small places like St Asaph are cities (Cathedral cities). (incidentally, for those who do not know, many of the streets in Christchurch central are named after Cathedral cities in England/Wales)- Welles, Bath, Peterborough, St Davids etc) Roger 8 Roger (talk) 11:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Either way, it's clear that renaming this article is controversial and that cannot be resolved by informal discussion only. Any renaming would have to be achieved through a formal move request. Schwede66 03:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Update to 2023 census

Does someone know how to update Template:NZ population data 2018 to the 2023 census (7 March 2023)? I am one of the earliest to see the public data release at release time, but I don't know how to update the template since all the numbers use a specific template. This page needs to have the urban areas updated as follows:

Urban area	Urban Area Population - 2023 census - 7 March 2023
Auckland	1402275
Christchurch	380079
Wellington	201708
Hamilton	174741
Tauranga	152790
Lower Hutt	106530
Dunedin	100908
Palmerston North	78021
Napier	64695
Hibiscus Coast	63351
Porirua	58080
New Plymouth	58047
Rotorua	55326
Whangārei	53841
Nelson	49224
Invercargill	48987
Hastings	47682
Upper Hutt	42903
Whanganui	41481
Gisborne	36912

Toran107 (talk) 00:03, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Gadfium usually does that, Toran107. Schwede66 04:38, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Lcmortensen updated it on 25 October last year; it's an annual update so I expect it will be updated later this month. I deal more with the demographics sections in NZ locality articles. I've been looking at today's release of data and writing a Python program to output appropriate results for Wikipedia. My output is working but not yet fully tested for SA2 areas and larger, and will probably need a few tweaks for SA1 areas. My plan is to post to WP:NZWNB with some sample output and get some feedback before I start adding the output to articles.-Gadfium (talk) 06:09, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

The census population can be added as a separate column as secondary data. We prefer the subnational population estimates as primary data because they are updated yearly to take into account population changes (i.e. birth, deaths and migration), whereas the census is only done every five years. The annual release is always around Labour Weekend; the Stats NZ timetable confirms the next release is due out on Friday 25 October around 10:45am (NZDT). Lcmortensen (mailbox) 07:37, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

The page "List of New Zealand urban areas by population" has all the census 2018 values that can be updated to the new 2023 census, but the columns for "June 2023 estimates" and "Percent change since 2018", are dependent on the now outdated 2018 census, so I am not sure how to update that article to the 2023 census values, due to the column dependency. Toran107 (talk) 20:37, 3 October 2024 (UTC)