Talk:List of awards and nominations received by Elliot Page

Deadname

I'm hoping to take this article through the Featured list (FL) process soon, and two things remain in my mind before nomination can begin: (1) a small number of awards not yet included where I'm researching to see if they are verifiable and notable; (2) writing a proper lead. On the topic of the second, I'll need to address the following questions: how should we refer to the fact that Page was nominated under female awards categories pre-December 2020 (if at all)? How should we mention Page's deadname (if at all)? These may arise in the FL process so it would be good to have other editor input first.

Not much of MOS:DEADNAME applies, so my initial perspective would be this: what would I want to know if I was researching Page's accolades (say, as a journalist)? I'd want to know Page's public gender identity and when it changed; and I'd want to know all of the names Page received awards under. Otherwise I might waste time or miss out on information when continuing my research after reading the article. The same is likely true of just a layperson examining the article's references, or someone only familiar with Page under one name or the other. So I would be inclined to mention it in the first paragraph in the prose, with a sentence like: Prior to December 2020, Page was known under the name "Ellen Page" and nominated in female categories. Some may view the deadname as unnecessary and as having the potential to cause harm—I think the necessity of this information to writing a complete standalone article is weightier, but in that case an option would be: Prior to December 2020, Page identified as female and was nominated for awards under his birth name. We could also do this in a footnote. Counter-suggestions are very welcome. — Bilorv (talk) 16:02, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

I would assume it would be like we do in tennis or the olympics for people who get married and change their names or change their names for other reasons. At the award page for the year in question we use the name under which they won the award. Bruce Jenner and Billie Jean Moffit come to mind. Of course those names link back to Caitlyn Jenner and Billie Jean King. On their bio pages you would use their current names. In a list of all Wimbledon champions, we tend to use the preferred name throughout so as not to confuse readers and make them think that two different people won the award. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:35, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't believe that this represents contemporary consensus about transgender people (though it's an accurate description of practices around the time of Jenner's transition). But I think you've misunderstood the questions. I'm asking about the lead of this list, not the award articles themselves. And I'm not asking what we should use in Wikipedia's voice, but whether the deadname/previous gender identity should be mentioned, and how. Does this make sense? — Bilorv (talk) 00:40, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

It seems impossible not to mention it one time as you suggested. You have to treat this as a standalone article and it would seem incomplete without a single mention of the name change to inform our readers. I don't know if it needs to be in the lead, but then again list articles usually don't have much prose so often a lead is all you get. Another good way I can think of doing it would be a footnote explaining the name change and category differences. Then it doesn't have to be in the lead. Probably an (a) right after the (1) you have now. If it doesn't get mentioned at all then the reference sources would all be wrong since the awards were given out under a different name. You'd have to find sources under the current name. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:26, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, some good points there. Appreciate the input. — Bilorv (talk) 19:36, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Order?

I'm wondering if instead of ordered alphabetically by award, this should instead be ordered by year? To me it seems more intuitive to clump the films together (which ordered by year would do). Plus readers kinda naturally gravitate towards seeing things done as a career progresses. Fyunck(click) (talk) 01:24, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Fyunck(click): this makes sense, but seems out of line with current practice. Here are some cases of recently-promoted featured lists which sort alphabetically by award, and where I don't think there's a salient difference from this page: Brad Pitt, Dua Lipa, Emilia Clarke and Exo. On desktop you can at least sort by any column (except references) for this desired view of the page. — Bilorv (talk) 10:52, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It still seems unnatural to me. I'd like to see the exact same chart but initially sorted by year. I'll ask at the wiki award page. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)