Talk:List of Thelemites

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(Missing heading)

I clicked on the Franz Hartman link, only to find he's listed under Theosphy. So...why is he listed in here as a Thelemite? If there is any claims or proof he is, it should be listed on that specific page I think. Thoughts?

Zos 20:09, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. There are a number of names of people who are not Thelemites here. They should be removed. It is not appropriate to class people who did not themselves accept a religion as adherents of it. -999 05:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gerald Yorke is another one who is not a Thelemite. He quit the A∴A∴ and became a Buddhist, although he continued to collect Crowley's literary remains.Sethian (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yet another one: I've removed Augustus Sol Invictus. His article says he now identifies as Catholic and is not a Thelemite anymore. Vontheri (talk) 14:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vontheri: I don't believe that is a correct removal. We should list people who have been Thelemites during any part of their life, with an explanation if they have since changed their beliefs. That's arguably of interest to readers of the list.

@Skyerise:I agree with you that it is of interest to readers to include former Thelemites. I think the fact that the list includes former as well as current Thelemites should be made more explicit, however, so I have changed your note to be in parentheses instead of a note. Let me know if you have reason to think a note is better. Vontheri (talk) 09:17, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Citation styles

@Skyerise: That policy about not changing citation styles is about established styles. You had used one style for 20-some citations, and an alternative style for just 2. I merely changed the 2 to match the others. I thought I was helping. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 09:15, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Grorp: I will reply where I started the conversation, thank you. Skyerise (talk) 09:30, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone else think this is too narrow a list?

Nearly everyone listed is a known O.T.O. or A∴A∴ member rather than simply someone who has identified as (or) openly practiced Thelema at some point in their lives. I added David Bowie as an example and used him as he a perfect example of a difficult case to work out who and who should not be on this list. Yes he practiced Thelemic Magick. Yes he also stated Crowley was a charlatan however I‘m still in the O.T.O (if inactive) and still carry out Thelemic rituals and identify as a Thelemite and agree he was (sometimes) a charlatan. Does my self identification and 15+ years identifying as a Thelemite get overruled because I now take a somewhat “post-Crowley“ approach to the Current? Answering these difficult questions will help figure out who should be on this list and who should not.

The best article written I have yet found on David Bowie and the occult including Thelema (the website is dedicated to analyzing Thelema and the O.T.O.):

https://www.parareligion.ch/bowie.htm

AeonFluxus (talk) 19:20, 12 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That website is not a reliable source. Wikipedia has strict rules about religious identification: the subject themselves must state they they identify as a member of the religion. Third parties and Wikipedia editors don't get to guess what a person's religion might have been based on behavior or lyrics. Practicing "Thelemic Magick" doesn't automatically make one a Thelemite. People's positive or negative attitudes about Crowley have nothing to do with whether they are a Thelemite. The only thing that makes someone a Thelemite is that they have publicly stated that they are adherents of Thelema. They can write about it in their autobiography, or reveal it in an interview, but unless they have explicitly stated their religion, we cannot include them here. Also, before including someone here, the details supporting their religious beliefs should be added to their biographical article along with supporting citations: only then should the article be added to the related categories and list articles. I've removed Bowie, but feel free to provide an interview or some other source reporting his self-identification as a Thelemite. Skyerise (talk) 01:55, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]