Talk:List of Old Abingdonians

Untitled

Harold John Wilde Gilman was at Abingdon 1885-90 but transferred to Tonbridge when his father moved to be vicar of Snargate (1890). His elder brother Lionel Ellis Gilman was at Abingdon School (1885-88) during the whole of his school career.

David Mitchell (comedian mainly known for 'That Mitchell and Webb look' and also the band Radiohead are from Abingdon School. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.44.184 (talk) 12:16, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Eric Howard Harvey was notable for winning MC and Bar. As a cricketer he played for Gloucestershire CCC (1911). Killed 1918.

There have been many winners of the MC and Bar. While a personal achievement, I don't think that makes them notable enough for inclusion here without some other claim to faim, otherwise every school article would have long lists of people who'd won medals. I think, medal-wise, only winning the VC or GC makes someone automatically eligible for inclusion. Since he only played county cricket for one season, I don't really think that makes him notable either. -- Necrothesp 13:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Move to Change the List to Abingdon as a Whole

I just made an addition to this page without realizing it was only for "Abingdon School".

It seems a bit pointless that a school in a town so small should have a list of notable students, when it would be more wise to have this list together with people of famous people born in the town (i.e. turning this page into notable people who have studied or lived in the town).

It would be less exclusive, allow more scope and be more interesting in learning about the town as a whole. OOOO yeah. Hulk Hogan 19:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

This list is a matter of historical fact. Perhaps you should consider doing your own "inclusive" list of people born in Abingdon, elsewhere, and cease making fatuous comments.

I'm not sure how much you known about English public (independent) schools, but the school itself is notable. It's a public school which just happens to be located in the town - it's not the local school for the town. Most of the people who go there will have little or no connection with Abingdon itself. -- Necrothesp 23:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

To whom is that interesting and valid comment made?

To Mr Hogan! I didn't notice you hadn't indented your reply to him. -- Necrothesp 00:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

At least 36 people on the list were born in Abingdon/Berkshire/Oxfordshire or Gloucestershire area. The school was the town grammar school until the 1970s but always has had a strong boarding side

Oh sure, but it's not quite the same as a standard town school as he seems to think. -- Necrothesp 01:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

In response to this:

• "Perhaps you should consider doing your own "inclusive" list of people born in Abingdon, elsewhere, and cease making fatuous comments."

I will have to point the anonymous user to WP:Civility. If you're not going to make a constructive response without resorting to tedious barbs, then don't bother at all.

My feeling was that it is very odd for the town itself to not have a list, and a school in the town to have one.....no matter what kind of school it is. I'm well aware the school has some minor notability, but obviously the town is more notable than it.

My thought was that we could have a more extended list of people who are notable and have been born in the town/associated with the town integrated with the list of notable people who have studied at the school. This would allow the list to be linked to in both the Abingdon and Abingdon School articles, allowing for more access to an interesting list.

This would of course be assuming there is a decent number of interesting names to link to the town. William I is an obvious one. Hulk Hogan 17:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely not. There have almost certainly been more notable people associated with the school than with the town. Like every other public school, this one deserves its own list of alumni. -- Necrothesp 17:54, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I would ask you how a list of people who have gone to a school is useful to anyone reading wikipedia, unless they had been themselves (Of which if they had, they'd have found out anyway).....but as we both know, you'd start getting angry and defensive, as you have been at such a minor suggestion.

More people visit the town than some private school of which is only notable to people in the field of private schools. Therefore, the point in the list is questionable. It is also questionable, when the majority of the people in the list don't have articles themselves, thus questioning there notability as people, as well as the list itself. It could even be argued that the list goes with this part of Wikipedia:Deletion_policy. "Such a minor branch of a subject that it doesn't deserve an article". All of the people in this list that are really notable, could be summed up in a paragraph. Secondly, Abingdon School is a private school, not a public one. OOOOOOOoooo yeah its true dog. Hulk Hogan 18:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

It's a public school. You obviously don't understand what a public school is. Most of the people in this list feature in the Dictionary of National Biography - who are you to say they're not notable if experts in the field of historical biography believe they are? Being red links now is no proof of non-notability - new articles are added all the time and the links turn blue. Wikipedia is not paper - not everything is supposed to be interesting and/or useful to everybody and unless it's inherent rubbish (which this clearly isn't) there's no reason not to have an article about it. We currently have 1,039,825 articles - I would suggest that only a tiny fraction are interesting to more than a smallish number of people, but that doesn't make them any less valid. To say the school is "only notable to people in the field of private schools" is as meaningless as saying Abingdon itself is "only notable to people in the field of small towns in Oxfordshire"! Can I also suggest that people would take you more seriously if you didn't end your posts with "OOOOOOOoooo yeah its true dog" - just a suggestion! -- Necrothesp 19:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

   Exactly. And cogently expressed

Ok Ok fair points on the other stuff, but not on the phrase Public School. 7 or 8 years ago I might well have said we're both wrong and right, to an extent. This is no longer the case. I'm going to quote Wikipedia (Which isn't very useful in the matter) for both of these extracts, so hang on to your seats OOOOooo yeah!

• "In most English-speaking nations, a public school is a school that is financed and run by the government and does not charge tuition fees in which children attend. This is in contrast to a private school (also known as an "independent school"). Source - Public School"
• "School type Independent" Source - Abingdon School

Public School was a common term, but it makes no logical sense in every day language and the phrase has not been used in Government for quite a while. For example, as in Gordon Brown's recent Budget speech to the Commons, schools such as Abingdon School are always called Private Schools. Government run ones are always called state or public schools (As in public access). Whether a few toffs (Whether writing for The Times or otherwise) wish to continue to use the term because they can't get with the times is up to them.....but in de facto government and English language terms, it is incorrect and false.

Long may the phasing out of this illogical nomenclature continue! OooooOOOOooooo Yeah Wiki Double Standards Strikes Again Dog!!

Hulk Hogan 21:22, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Of course it's not incorrect. It is used by many people. It is in no way incorrect. Language does not become incorrect because terms are no longer in such common parlance as they once were. Neither is it required to be logical (in fact, it's far more interesting when it retains its individuality). And most people in the UK would know what a "public school" was with absolutely no confusion being engendered. But I think you've made your attitude towards public schools quite clear by your vandalism of the Abingdon School article. Or is it just that one you don't like?

The term commonly used to refer to public schools when they're not being called public schools is, incidentally, "independent school", not private school. "Private school" is generally used to refer to small schools, often taking primary-age pupils only, not to the big HMC schools (AKA public schools). Frankly, the terms used by government (particularly the current one) are not necessarily either those used by other people or the correct ones. -- Necrothesp 22:50, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Really? I must have imagined the nomenclature used in the Education white paper, the last 10 budgets...and dare I say it, a few Tory budgets before that. By other people, you of course mean you yourself (Who I'm assuming is from a Private/Public/whatever school background) and others who've gone through that system.....needless to say; things are very different outside in the real world. Some of us take English more literally and aren't so pedantic in keeping with out-of-date traditions.

And no I don't like Private Schools......they promote ignorance and pompousness in general, but this one is especially noted in this regard.

But rest assured my friend. The current government, which you obviously aren't a fan of, will be in power for a long while yet and they will continue to chip away at these schools and their blind idiocy. Idiocy matched in my vandalism attack.......vamdalism in frustration though. Oh how I long for the days when I saw the point in Wikipedia/Nupedia. Oh how I long for the days when I was proud to step into my account and rule on issues with fair impartiality with my admin badge........long has this changed. Much has Wikipedia changed. Both for the worse. Hulk Hogan 23:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Odd, I thought they promoted good education, a far cry from many of the schools the government you obviously approve of continually tries to ruin. We all live in the real world, my friend, whatever our schooling, and "out of date" is a point of view, no more. The "ignorance and pompousness" is more in those who believe that they know more about the real world because they did not go through the public school system - now there's an out of date, inversely snobbish view, if ever I heard one. The point of Wikipedia is what it's always been - it's an encyclopaedia. No change there. Not that any of this is relevant to the article. -- Necrothesp 00:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Hardly any of these people are notable, please set at least a level to which all must meet, I do enjoy Abingdon making a fool of itself but really this is just embarassing, Look at MCS's list those people are properly famous, your list is laughable.

These people overwhelmingly appear in the Dictionary of National Biography, the definitive dictionary of notable people in British history. Therefore they are most certainly notable. Your not having heard of them is irrelevant. And whether they are "famous" or not is merely a subjective view. Incidentally, I added most of them and I have no connection with Abingdon. -- Necrothesp 18:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)