Talk:List of Game of Thrones characters/Archive 2

Character Additions / Staring vs Guest Staring & Recuring

Hi there. For whatever its worth, why don't you add a "mugshot" of each character from the TV series, so that book readers can have an easier time reading the second book n the series. Just a suggestion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.27.34.193 (talk) 04:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I second this, it would be a very good contribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Upsidown (talk • contribs) 23:49, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I realize no one has really used this talk page other than me, but I have been running into a conflict with another editor on this page, who claims that this page is to be kept to characters "We know will appear in more than one episode," except for maybe Jon Arryn and Gendry and some others were not sure about. If this is indeed the intention of the creators of this page, who this person is not one of, I would suggest that this should be changed to those characters who are either addressed by name in the show, or who have been given names in production. As the series is quite faithful to the books most introduced characters tend to have a decent involvement in the plot and/or create a key driving point for one of the main characters (even if they only do so for one episode, ie. Mycah). Anticipating who will be in more than one episode can be difficult and having to create constant exceptions for important characters who are in only one episode seems arbitrary and problematic. If anyone would like to debate the merits of these arguments I would be happy to find some flexible middle ground between leaving them off altogether and putting everyone on. Thaddeus Venture (talk) 17:18, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think it isn't really a matter of how many episodes but of importance to the plot. Random guardsmen and such in my opinion don't merit entry in the article regardless of how many episodes they are in. A character like Jon Arryn is central to the plot even if he is only shown as a corpse and definitely merits entry. The page does not have to be exhaustive and include every character (there are fan wikis for that).Caidh (talk) 19:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's valid, but that and it's a fine point, but it makes the article highly susceptible to personal opinion and prejudice. How do characters like Mycah, Will, Vardis Ergen, and Ser Hugh fit in. Would you count them, or are they to small. They're important to the plot, but not on the show for a long period of time, similar to Jon Arryn. Like I said, the method of inclusion doesn't have to be include everyone, but it should be a concrete system and not "Hey I don't think he's important." I would say that if it isn't commonly known who the actor is portraying the role then the character might not be included, named or not. That might be a reasonable middle ground and would disclude characters like Wyl, Heward, Mikken (potentially) and that's about it. Also then where do you stand with listing Hodor, Marillion, Irri, Jhiqui, Qotho, Ros, and Lommy. All of these character should feature as plot peripherals, but none of them really have any importance to the plot itself. I hate to add this too, but if it's just a matter of putting the work in, I'll put the work in, that's not a big deal.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 23:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Size or importance of a guest role is not the question. This is a TV series, not the books. If you go to Rome's page and look for the actor who played King Herod in one episode, guess what? YOU WON'T FIND HIM! Same with The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood, or any other show with loads of characters. The "Characters" page is not some sort of reservoir for every character that appears, even if the character himself/herself is prominent for that episode. That's what episode pages are for; they list every character that appeared in that ep and the actor that plays them. On Game of Thrones, Gared, Waymar Royce, Will, Armeca, Mycah, and other roles might--MIGHT--be plot-relevant, but they are NOT part such a part of the show that a page devoted to its continuing characters needs to have a listing for all of them. This is doubly the case for featured extras that we may or may not ever learn the name of the actor. It is unreasonable to try and list everyone YOU feel is important to the plot, so some rules are in order, and that rule is: regular or recurring characters ONLY. Otherwise, you must list every random goldcloak or Dothraki warrior who gets a line.

Once again I'm not trying to impliment an arbitrary system of who or what I think is important, I'm only suggesting that those characters who are given a proper name, and for whom their actor is credited, be listed, this would not include every random gold cloak or Dothraki, or anything else arbitrary. This is a set system with set rules and would have no exceptions. There are at least 18 characters (of which you only deleted 4) that have only appeared in one episode that you are interested in keeping on for the sake of speculation. Many minor characters appear in more than one episode. The whole episode count thing is just very arbitrary. I think my system works better and is less arbitrary. And please refrain from posting editing notes in the article itself as they belong on a discussion page.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 22:35, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gared, Waymar and Will are DEAD. They appeared in the pilot and then they DIED. They are NOT important enough to warrant a listing. Same with Mycah. Armeca has had one appearance, and while I don't think she'll appear again this season it's not impossible she'll come back next season, but as she's an invented character, we don't KNOW that, so until she appears again, she doesn't belong on this page. For the record, I DID create this page and I absolutely did not mean for it to become a listing of everybody who gets a name and a line. Keep putting them back, and I'll keep taking them out. We'll see who gets tired first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Soldier (talk • contribs) 23:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think we need a consensus on this. If there are characters that you think should be added which have been deleted, I recommend discussing them here. The page definitely had additions of characters which are pretty much background characters (either only appearing in one episode and having almost no impact on the plot, or appearing in multiple episodes and having no impact). Reference to some of these characters can be made in the episode list for that specific episode (in brief) if needed.Caidh (talk) 05:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, let the consensus begin. Here are a list of characters that, under the "They are NOT important enough to warrant a listing," and the "so until she appears again, she doesn't belong on this page" or the "only appearing in one episode and having almost no impact on the plot, or appearing in multiple episodes and having no impact". We can debate each one, or we can just create a more steadfast rule so the page doesn't end up in the thrall of statements like this "Armeca has had one appearance, and while I don't think she'll appear again this season it's not impossible she'll come back next season, but as she's an invented character, we don't KNOW that, so until she appears again, she doesn't belong on this page." Which seems like an incredibly arbitrary guideline to expect every other editor to follow. So here's the list:

Jon Arryn
Vardis Egen
Hugh
Marillion
Mord
Gendry
Ilyn Payne
Meryn Trant
Walder Frey
Myrcella Baratheon
Tommen Baratheon
Kevan Lannister
Shae
Shagga
Jory Cassel
Galbart Glover
Mikken
Old Nan
Rickon Stark
Jon Umber
Maester Aemon
Gared
Bowen Marsh
Waymar Royce
Will
Irri
Jhiqui
Mirri Maz Duur
Qotho
Armeca
Jonos Bracken
Beric Dondarrion
Lommy Greenhands
Masha Heddle
Hot Pie
Mhaegen
Tobho Mott
Mycah
Ros
Janos Slynt
Stiv

Now I think we can all agree that some of these characters should become important, but as has been noted, these aren't the books, this is the TV series so that sort of thing shouldn't be taken for granted.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 12:43, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments can be made that some of the two-shot appearances, like Vardis Egen, Ser Hugh, Mord, etc., probably should be removed, particularly the first two since we know they'll never come back. But I created this page to be like the character page for any other TV series; for the REGULAR and RECURRING characters, NOT every character who impacts the plot, no matter how briefly they appear. I have already removed Jon Arryn because if we've gone this long without a flashback involving him, we're likely never going to get one. I'll likely remove Jhiqui as well, unless she is used more next season (which is likely). Again, I am removing all those you added that are clearly one-shot guest characters, and I will continue to do so. The consensus is; REGULAR AND RECURRING CAST ONLY. NOT ONE-SHOT GUEST APPEARANCES. I don't care how important to the plot they are. They'll be listed in the episode page, NOT here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Soldier (talk • contribs) 15:05, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't watched the eighth episode yet, but I really don't think most if not all of those listed two comments ago should be included in the article. There's a couple I'm indecisive about (Jon Arryn especially) and there are many others who will definitely be included if things continue as they do in the books but not yet. Several of these currently minor characters may be recast by the time they have a larger role (people like Marillion and Kevan Lannister have little to no role even in the second season). I believe it isn't worth listing characters/actors here if they are not in multiple episodes with speaking roles.Caidh (talk) 16:31, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW - you (Old Soldier and Thaddeus Venture) both seem to have a sincere interest in improving the article, just a difference of opinion. I'm sure some solicitation of opinions over at one of the WikiProject Television group would help get this issue settled.Caidh (talk) 23:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Caidh, where Kevan is concerned I say wait and see. I highly doubt Tywin will be as underused in Season Two as he is in Book 2. The scenes where Arya only glimpses him can now be shown from his perspective, so he may appear in as many as four or five episodes. And in every episode he appears in, Kevan will likely appear. I do not recommend removing Kevan until Season 2 is finished. As for the re-casting of some of these roles, why worry about it unless/until it happens? I'm sure they told Emun Elliot what kind of character arc he would have before he signed. On another note, I am sincerely considering removing Bracken and Glover. They will likely be no more than featured extras at best and I don't think we'll ever hear them speak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Soldier (talk • contribs) 00:42, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

IMHO, at least Tobho Mott and Jhiqui should be excluded from the list. They're characters with a single minor appareance with little impact on the plot.--RR (talk) 14:12, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mathos Seaworth belongs in Lord Stannis' house. Not Renly's.

Minor Characters (episodes)

Given that a vast majority of them have only been in one episode, do they have a place here? Should this list not just be fore Main and Reoccurring characters? I don't know, it just feels like we are naming every tom, dick or harry. MisterShiney ✉ 23:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as how the section doesn't meet Notability Guidelines or MOS Cast Info I have removed it. I should also point out how Trivial it all seemed naming every Tom, Dick and Harry. -- MisterShiney ✉ 20:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Minor characters (plot contributions)

I was under the impression that only notable characters who actually contribute to plot and appear in more than three or so episodes are going to be listed. So, why are there a plethora of one-shot guys hanging out on the page? ~Cheers, Ten Ton Parasol 22:47, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I originally added the section to list notable characters from the books that have become one episode characters for the TV series, and still have a notable speaking role; like Will, Vardis Egen and Maester Cressen. But some jokers thought adding EVERY character that appears from the novels in a minor capacity on the TV series, nameless and/or unconfirmed, was a good idea. I agree it needs a tidy up.

User:NecroSheik —Preceding undated comment added 15:17, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Three editors have deleted Osha from the Cast Appearance list, and three others have added her back.
She has been in FOURTEEN EPISODES!!
I don't see you deleting the ELEVEN others characters on the list that have been in fewer episodes than her.
You gotta knock that nonsense off already.
24.79.32.243 (talk) 21:36, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The other actors in that list are all credited in the main credits or, in the case of Jason Momoa, as "also starring" at the end of the cast list in the end credits. They are therefore the main (starring) cast, as also in the section below. The recurring cast is credited in the end credits and Natalia Tena falls in this category. If you want to include her, why not include all the other recurring actors who have appeared in many episodes (e.g. Julian Glover, Ian McElhinney, Michael McElhatton, Donald Sumpter, etc.)? The line must be drawn somewhere and the starring cast seems a good point, even if it appears somewhat arbitrary (Hannah Murray just one episode this season so far?). Making an exception for Osha makes no sense. Also, the comment on her first inclusion 6 days ago "should have been done by now." sounds like favouritism and the "three editors" who have added her back in are shown to be your IP (which also added her in the first place) twice, as well as a registered user. If you want to be so disingenuous, better make sure your IP is changed.Arjuna92 (talk) 21:58, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

fyi-I am not associated with the above IP.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 23:50, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My adding of the character back was under the assumption that she had equal billing on the show to other minor characters that are on the page. I know the main Game of Thrones page has a much higher standard of entry for characters (understandably so). I don't have the episodes handy so this could just be my misunderstanding - but there appear to be a lot of characters on this page who have had less screen time. Are all the characters on this page listed in the starting (not end) credits? Including characters like the "Three Eyed Crow", "Ilyn Payne" and "Hallyne"? If the actors who play those characters have been listed in the intro credits, that's fine. If not, then I fail to see what merits the removal of Osha while leaving so many other characters. Thanks in advance for any clarification on this issue that the editors suggesting removal for Osha can provide. Caidh (talk) 22:57, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Osha should indeed be listed below as a supporting character because she is quite important and appears, as the anon user states, in 14 episodes. Whether the three characters you name are important enough for this is debatable. Certainly none of them are in the starring cast. The question at hand is whether Osha (Tena) should be in the "cast appearances" list at the top of the page, seeing as she would be the only non-starring cast member there. Hope that clears things up.Arjuna92 (talk) 23:21, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Arjuna - you've cleared it up for me well and I'm fine with leaving it as it is. My own reversions were due (in part) to my carelessness here. I thought the edits were removing the character completely, not just from the cast appearances section. I should look more carefully before reverting changes. My apologies for contributing to the confusion here! Caidh (talk) 23:26, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As it is would mean including her on the list. I just haven't edited it back yet because edit wars are childish and I wanted some kind of clarifying statement here.Arjuna92 (talk) 23:40, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

With the amount of airtime and plot-involvement I would have thought her to be more than just a semi-recurring supporting character. When I saw her removed without a valid reason I placed her back. If the upper "Cast appearances" list only counts/tallies main-credited cast (those in the opening credits) then only those should be in that list, and that fact should be announced in a section lead. There is no indication of what that list is about, either overtly or through a hidden comment.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 00:02, 6 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion/debate is quite nonsensical: If you are going to judge based on something as minimal as the opening credits then you shouldn't make the title of the list do ridiculously general.
Try " Main Credit Cast Characters " as a title to be accurate, then you can claim to be acting correctly, otherwise you are using the general title to bait people so you can then correct them and feel important that you are correct and the corrector. I also think how long this list is allowed to be is something subjective. And I don't care that you now just recently have added a quaint explanation of how you are deciding right under the title - you shouldn't have to qualify the title. 24.79.36.79 (talk) 14:34, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Consdiering how long the supporting characters section is, I don't see what makes this list any worse:

Cast

Main article: Season 4 cast
Starring cast

Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister (4 episodes)
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Ser Jaime Lannister (5 episodes)
Lena Headey as Queen Cersei Lannister (5 episodes)
Emilia Clarke as Queen Daenerys Targaryen (4 episodes)
Kit Harington as Jon Snow (4 episodes)
Aidan Gillen as Lord Petyr Baelish (3 episodes)
Charles Dance as Lord Tywin Lannister (4 episodes)
Natalie Dormer as Lady Margaery Tyrell (5 episodes)
Liam Cunningham as Ser Davos Seaworth (2 episodes)
Stephen Dillane as King Stannis Baratheon (2 episodes)
Carice van Houten as Lady Melisandre ("The Lion and the Rose")
Alfie Allen as Prince Theon Greyjoy ("The Lion and the Rose")
John Bradley as Samwell Tarly (3 episodes)
Jack Gleeson as King Joffrey Baratheon (3 episodes)
Isaac Hempstead-Wright as Bran Stark (3 episodes)
Rory McCann as Sandor Clegane (3 episodes)
Sophie Turner as Lady Sansa Stark (5 episodes)
Maisie Williams as Lady Arya Stark (3 episodes)
Gwendoline Christie as Brienne of Tarth (5 episodes)
Jerome Flynn as Ser Bronn (3 episodes)
Conleth Hill as Lord Varys (3 episodes)
Kristofer Hivju as Tormund Giantsbane (2 episodes)
Sibel Kekilli as Shae (2 episodes)
Rose Leslie as Ygritte (2 episodes)
Hannah Murray as Gilly ("Breaker of Chains")
Iwan Rheon as Ramsay Snow ("The Lion and the Rose")
Iain Glen as Ser Jorah Mormont (4 episodes)

Selected guest starring cast
Daniel Portman as Podrick Payne (5 episodes)
Jacob Anderson as Grey Worm (4 episodes)
Dean-Charles Chapman as Prince Tommen Baratheon (4 episodes)
Nathalie Emmanuel as Missandei (4 episodes)
Michiel Huisman as Daario Naharis (4 episodes)
Ian McElhinney as Ser Barristan Selmy (4 episodes)
Pedro Pascal as Prince Oberyn Martell (4 episodes)
Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna Tyrell (4 episodes)
Ian Beattie as Ser Meryn Trant (3 episodes)
Paul Bentley as the High Septon (3 episodes)
Thomas Brodie-Sangster as Jojen Reed (3 episodes)
Dominic Carter as Lord Janos Slynt (3 episodes)
Ben Crompton as Eddison Tollett (3 episodes)
Julian Glover as Grand Maester Pycelle (3 episodes)
Ellie Kendrick as Meera Reed (3 episodes)
Kristian Nairn as Hodor (3 episodes)
Mark Stanley as Grenn (3 episodes)
Noah Taylor as Locke (3 episodes)
Owen Teale as Ser Alliser Thorne (3 episodes)
Indira Varma as Ellaria Sand (3 episodes)
Tony Way as Dontos Hollard (3 episodes)v Josef Altin as Pypar (2 episodes)
Roger Ashton-Griffiths as Lord Mace Tyrell (2 episodes)
Luke Barnes as Rast (2 episodes)
Emilio Doorgasingh as a slave master (2 episodes)
Brian Fortune as Othell Yarwyck (2 episodes)
Joseph Gatt as a Thenn warg (2 episodes)
Josephine Gillan as Marei (2 episodes)
Burn Gorman as Karl (2 episodes)
Kerry Ingram as Princess Shireen Baratheon (2 episodes)
Finn Jones as Loras Tyrell (2 episodes)
Yuri Kolokolnikov as Styr (2 episodes)
Jane McGrath as Craster's wife (2 episodes)
Deirdre Monaghan as Morag (2 episodes)
Brenock O'Connor as Olly (2 episodes)
Will Tudor as Olyvar (2 episodes)
Peter Vaughan as Maester Aemon (2 episodes)
Kate Dickie as Lady Lysa Arryn ("First of His Name")
Lino Facioli as Lord Robin Arryn ("First of His Name")
Pixie Le Knot as Kayla ("The Lion and the Rose")
Anton Lesser as Qyburn ("Two Swords")
Michael McElhatton as Lord Roose Bolton ("The Lion and the Rose")
Sara Dylan as a handmaiden ("Two Swords")
Tara Fitzgerald as Queen Selyse Baratheon ("The Lion and the Rose")
Charlotte Hope as Myranda ("The Lion and the Rose")
Andy Kellegher as Polliver ("Two Swords")
24.79.36.79 (talk) 15:49, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Besides which the intro credits aren't always accurate, for example, a direct and very relevant example,
the fifth episode of season four Conleth Hill as Lord Varys was not credited, but did appear.
24.79.36.79 (talk) 15:57, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dont recall him, what scene was he in?--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 16:46, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Billing is not minimal, and is one of the suggested methods of listing cast. See WP:CASTLIST. Please be cautious in how you comment on other people's opinions during a discussion.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 15:47, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Billing is minimal, because it is only one of several suggested methods of listing cast. See WP:CASTLIST. Please be cautious in not referring to other people's opinions as Wikipedia Policy. 24.79.36.79 (talk) 16:17, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have just switched into edit-warring and improper behavior status. Mimic/copying back is not constructive to a discussion.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 16:46, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RFC: Bias editing needs monitoring?

Can someone who is not as biased as this editor keep an eye on this article? 24.79.32.243 (talk) 15:17, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another example of you are totally deceiving people here, manipulating ideas, and generally acting like this your personal territory, without bothering to follow the rules you quote, I just randomly picked an episode and checked the credits and you were missing one of the names on the list. After all this time you don't have a main character on the list of characters that has been in all FOUR seasons, 24 EPISODES, of house Stark, a major house in the show (if you need to be told that you are the wrong person to edit here), this is the kind of deceptive editing I'm dealing with here:
Tenth episode of season two was my test episode because I was curious to see if Wren Ros Elliot-Sloan was in the credits and after going through the list of names I spotted the TENTH name shown in the opening credits, missing all this time from the list of characters a major character in the show, Bran Stark played by Isaac Hempstead-Wright. He even has his own article page and you can't be bothered to have him on the list because you obviously think you are "king of the castle" here? 24.79.32.243 (talk) 15:13, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the RfC template because this appears to be a dispute by a user against himself. If I am incorrect, feel free to put back the template. Arfæst Ealdwrítere (talk) 23:24, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Hound

What should the Hound's status be? Alive, deceased, or unknown? He didn't die on screen but they heavily imply (like in the books) that he will die of his injuries. In the books Brienne met someone who claimed to bury him, but I've learned in reading the books to be wary of third-party recording's of people's deaths and don't totally believe it until the person is actually shown dead. Emperor001 (talk) 02:23, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Technically unknown. Even if he is dead in the book this list is about the television series. Do not take into account anything from the future (the books), only go by what you have seen on screen.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(talk) 04:04, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware. I merely made a comparison to how he actually was not shown dead in either one; just heavily implied. Emperor001 (talk) 21:07, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say go with unknown. As a hypothetical, let's say the show goes the same route next season that you described the books taking (third party info that he's dead) we can update the status to dead and still be able to change it if needed. What I'm getting at is that if it's revealed later on down the road that he was "alive the whole time" or whatever, we can always update. But for now, until we see his corpse or hear someone on the show claim to verify his death, unknown is probably best. Millahnna (talk) 21:19, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OR and MOS:FICTION already explain how Wikipedia deals wit these things. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No Maester Luwin?

?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.191.120 (talk) 11:40, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On status again...

Per WP:MOSFICT "Features often seen in an inappropriate, in-universe perspective include: Using past tense when discussing the plot or any of its elements (except backstory), rather than the historical present tense (my underlining)

And ... " the events within one work of fiction are always in the present whenever it is read, watched, or listened to. In-universe temporal designations such as "current" or "previous" are therefore inappropriate" (my underlining)

Under this perspective, and for this TV serier, yet again, (current) status is inappropriate. We get this problem every year, with every new TV series and then we remove it, revise it, etc.

Please do no re-enter it. Every character is dead or alive depending on which episode who are watching. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:22, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A clue that the (current) status is also WP:OR is shown by the fact that same characters' status were marked as "unknown". So, all information comes from TV viewers and not from sources and/or critics. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:24, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Check lists like List of Heroes characters, List of Lost characters, List of Dexter characters, Characters of Supernatural, and many more. There is no such as "status". -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Check List of The Walking Dead characters not every list of characters has a Status section, but it doesn't mean that those who have are wrong. --User:91.237.56.65 20:15 27 June 2014

WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is not a valid argument. Check policy and manual of style. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:07, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are using the same argument by saying it doesn't exists in some lists so lets delete it! Magioladitis you are removing a true information. Information found in tables is focused on usefulness to the reader. Instead of reading the text for the current status you can just read it on the side. --User:Rey Keshe 20:15 28 June 2014

That is does not exist in good list of characters is an additional argument. The main argument is that the "status" is nonsense and against MOS:FICTION. If someone watches the first episode right now is Ed Stark for him dead or alive? In any book about fiction: Is Ed Stark in books dead or alive? Do you think that the verb "is" make any sense for books, films? -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:59, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another example that show that this is nonsense is the "Unknown" status for a fictional character. Please read WP:Original research. We are writing an encyclopaedia and we are not here to write unsourced stuff based on our beliefs and speculations. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't this supposed to show the curent status. I mean there are spoilers in the text too, how many season they appeard in, how many episodes they appeard in it's all a spoiler. And who goes to check the character story they are just starting to watch. If you are willing to deleting status section which was here for 4 years and leave the text below where its saying that the character is dead, then what is the point? -- Rey Keshe 21:08, 28 June 2014

This has nothing to do with spoilers. I think yo are affected by the fact that the show is still running. Please read MOS:FICTION#The_problem_with_in-universe_perspective: "Features often seen in an inappropriate, in-universe perspective include: Ordering works by their fictional chronology, rather than the actual order they were published." This is how we write articles in Wikipedia in contradiction to The Game of Thrones wikia page. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and The Game of Thrones wikia page is just a fan page. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:31, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

These types of lists should not be written like some game show or sports event. You need to consider the long-term existence of the article, meaning what you present to the reader as if the work was already complete. This makes the "Status" column completely unnecessary. Explain in the text of the character's plot relevance if they have met their demise or not, but this shouldn't be broken out into a separate column. --MASEM (t) 13:03, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RfC on Oathkeeper

There's an RS RfC on the Oathkeeper talk page concerning book chapter information and appropriate sourcing. Participation (and fresh voices) would be welcome. Darkfrog24 (talk) 05:15, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge "lifespan" and "main cast appearances"

Anyone have an idea how we could merge the "Character lifespan" and "Main cast appearances" tables into one? --Rayukk (talk) 09:44, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

- I removed it. Way too spoilery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.223.41 (talk) 19:57, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Charts

I am not a viewer of this series but couldn't help but notice that these character charts are a complete mess. How can any editor know which characters will appear in season 5 (or which episodes) when it has yet to air? Not only is much of this unsourced speculation but it is just a damn ugly page. I wish the many editors who are fans of this series could get this article into better shape. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:12, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

- I have to say I agree. I worked on this page a lot when it was first created, updating it, etc. But now it's just become a mess and I've given up correcting it, since people keep adding it again and again. There are two things weird and wrong that should be changed: 1. Character lifespans table: it is ridiculously spoilery, and just too big to be of any real use. 2. Somehow people have "guest starring" and "recurring" mixed up. If you look at the credits, there is no such thing as recurring. All non-main cast members are "guest starring", the only difference being that some of the actors are credited individually. I'm going to fix the mess one last time. If people want to change it again for some reason, I'm out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:F6E:E098:0:6C53:953E:31D3:20C4 (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi I agree the lifespans table was awful; took up way to much space and did not add anything to the current character table. I have to say though, some main characters are definitively listed as guest starring in their episodes (Diana Rigg, Donald Sumpter, Pedro Pascal). The importance of this billing is shown in the fact that three of these cast members have been promoted to main cast for series 5 (Michael Husiman, Diana Rigg, Indira Varma) and so it warrants inclusion on the character table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.130.9.243 (talk) 14:32, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Concise

This page is far too long and we not possibly list all the munor characters in the show so unless they make it to the charts for supporting characters, hey would be hidden. WP: CONCISE.Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Even the descriptions for main characters are needlessly overlong... we don't need to have their whole life story for crying out loud. 202.36.179.107 (talk) 09:27, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cast tables and episode counts

Under no circumstances per WP:TVCAST are there to be episode counts for cast and characters. However I have no clue how the tables could be organised for starring, guest, recurring etc as blocks of pure colour may make it difficult to distinguish and/or unreadable between each character even with the key. Brocicle (talk) 17:07, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why was the amount of appearances removed?

Why has the cast key for the number of episodes each character appeared in been removed? This should be put back in immediately. Displaying the amount of episodes each character appeared in is an interesting and helpful guide for fans. I know for a fact fans are interested in seeing who has appeared in the most episodes, how many episodes a character was in each season, and seeing how many episodes a character was in when he/she recurred vs when they had starring roles. I am not sure why the amount of episodes was taken out, but I strongly believe it should be put back in and would like to know why it was removed. I read the link from the previous section but still did not understand. Please put this back, it was cool. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Delfino319 (talk • contribs) 18:52, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We are not a fan-based community, we do not include content simply because it's a "helpful guide". Episode counts are now deprecated per WP:TVCAST. But you already knew that, since you tried to remove it from the aforementioned guideline. Alex|The|Whovian^? 22:32, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Colors used on table

I edited the tables to include a more common color scheme, in addition to colors that serve better as a background. My edit was reverted and I see why, and I would like to propose a change that should serve as a compromise.

Current	My edit	Proposed usage
Starring	Starring	Starring
Also Starring	Also Starring	Also Starring
Guest Starring	Guest Starring	Guest Starring
Recurring	Recurring	Recurring
None	None	None

The colors for Main (Starring), guest and recurring roles have already been decided at the time that some templates were made, and deemed distinguishable. The "also starring" has not been established, so I had previously made a choice of the blue (Which I thought was fine) that I assume was the reason for the revert. I propose the yellow as an alternative. I am however open to alternatives.

The reasons I believe there should be change are:

Trying to use more commonly used colors to unify wikipedia, make pages similar from one to another
Getting rid of the current red color that is too dark for reference displays (notice the white boxes) and is nearly too dark for the text in the cells.
Correspondingly to above, using lighter background colors for cells that are both easier on the eyes and easier to see the text.

—DLManiac (talk) 04:22, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Appearance table is now using the same templates that many other cast wikitables use. BSCD128 (talk) 04:20, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

BSCD's edits

Reposted from my (Star Garnet's) talk page:

"Edit War on GoT character list"

Regarding our edit war on List of Game of Thrones characters, most TV show cast pages now have the appearance table at the bottom as the table becomes too large (depending on the number of seasons) and takes away from the point of the article - descriptions of the cast. This information should precede the appearance table.

A 'recurring' appearance is appearing more than one time in a season while not being part of the main ensemble. If an actor/character only appears once in a season, they cannot be recurring - this makes it a 'guest' appearance.

I have updated the table to include lots of major recurring characters who were not on it before the edit. Please do not revert the table. This table and it's format is in line with other tv show wikitables. BSCD128 (talk) 05:25, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Which shows? There are very few comparable to GOT, and most that are (ST, etc.) don't have tables at all. When there are tables, they are almost always at the top, as they are generally a focal point of the article. This show has too many people with opinions on this show to have an arbitrary standard for who would qualify for the recurring table. Added to how ugly the table you mangled is, and your edits border on vandalism. Star Garnet (talk) 06:09, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't hard to decide who has a recurring role - it is quite simple - any actor who has appeared more than once in a season but is not part of the main cast. That's a recurring role, not much to debate about.

The table layout is exactly the same as it was before - not sure how it's 'ugly' or 'mangled' now. More content has been added - that's it.

Not sure how updating information on a table is considered vandalism.

I'm fine with leaving the table at the top of the page, but do not undo the updates to the table. Many major recurring characters have been added including updates for season six.

Which shows? Every one I can think of, except maybe Dexter. BSCD128 (talk) 06:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I understand the logic of keeping the recurring cast on the table reserved for characters with more than nine appearances. I agree that the table was very big with all cast added to it. Question is: is it okay to have a large table with all characters in it? Also, should the current table be sorted alphabetically by the actor's last name per season? BSCD128 (talk) 07:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to have the guest performances in the chart, that seems fine, so long as it is defined above the table. I wouldn't have a problem with more characters being added, so long as it's an objective process, although I figure the list below it keeps track of that fairly well. The list below contains every named character credited at least twice, plus one-time credits for actors who have wp articles (plus Smalljon, since he will certainly be back). As for ordering, a quick survey of other articles would seem to indicate that ordering should be tailored to complexity of the show. 7th Heaven (list at top) has ordering by perceived importance of characters, 30 Rock (list at top) is like this article ordered by first season then last season, The 100 (list at bottom) is a combination of your method and 7th Heaven's, and Lost (list at top) is the same as this article. Star Garnet (talk) 08:19, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add my voice to this discussion, I believe the current table's serve their purposes well. There is one for main cast, and one for recurring cast. Including recurring cast who have been in less that ten episodes would mean these tables swell to uncontrollable size, which is why there is a limit. However I do believe that cast members credited individually in the end credits (with the 'Guest Starring' qualifier) do require recognition as these characters are often more central to the plot, without being part of the main cast. --86.141.169.173 (talk) 11:39, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to add that this isn't the first time BSCD128 has rearranged and added stuff without discussing via talk page nor listened when informed about guidelines. Anyway, In my opinion the cast list is crowded enough as it is. Not every character HAS to be mentioned per WP:TVCAST and WP:FICTION. All it does is make everything overcrowded and too complex to follow which this page already is. While we're on the topic of discussing characters. All the actors and characters listed by episode number have to be dealt with as episode counts aren't allower. All we have to do is work together and come to a solution that will best benefit the article as a whole because to be completely honest, the entire article needs a revamp. Brocicle (talk) 17:55, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Character Table

As per a message left on my talk page, I'm apparently supposed to discuss why I'm reverting edits back to how they originally were? How come the person who made the drastic and unnecessary changes to begin with was able to do it and get away with it without any consensus whatsoever? The current table looks a mess and is a massive step-down from what it used to be. 86.183.69.103 (talk) 15:21, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]