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Archive 1

Indian origin

Several news outlets (Hindustan Times, Times of India, CNN, BBC, Guardian) have given prominence to Leo Varadkar's Indian origins. It seems like a worthy addition to this article.WheelOfTime22 (talk) 12:02, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

That sounds very racist.129.194.252.130 (talk) 12:21, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

WheelOfTime22's addition certainly did read as racist, to me at least, especially with its inclusion in the very first sentence. We don't define people by their race, religion (or lack thereof) or sexuality. The current version is a bit better. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 13:31, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
I thank 129.194.252.130 for not spamming my talk page with accusations of racism. The Indian heritage of Leo Varadkar has been given great prominence in international media, and I took the phrase "Indian-origin" from the Hindustan Times. It has also been used by the Indian Express, The Hindu and several other Indian news outlets. Just Google it. WheelOfTime22 (talk) 13:41, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
WheelOfTime22, you clearly trawled Google for the most innocent-sounding racist smear, so you could make insinuations about the un-Irishness of the Fine Gael leader, pea-for-brain coward. 129.194.252.130 (talk) 13:47, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
129.194.252.130, I am amazed you can see what goes on inside my head, oh mysterious and powerful one. WheelOfTime22 (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Dear Bastun, please ban WheelOfTime22 for threatening me on my talk page, for insulting the great Indian nation and anti-nationalism. 129.194.252.130 (talk) 14:26, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi, 129.194.252.130. I am not an admin so can't block anyone. There are plenty of eyes on this page, though, so anything inappropriate - such as WheelOfTime's earlier change to the lead sentence - will be quickly removed. WheelOfTime22, Indian newspapers may well be covering Varadkar's Indian heritage - I'd be surprised if they didn't cover it. That doesn't mean it's ever appropriate to describe someone by their race in the first line of an article. It can be appropriately covered later in the article - without it sounding racist. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 14:46, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

The objection that pointing out that an Irish leader is of Indian origin is somehow "racist" is ridiculous and childish. The fact that he is not of Irish ethnicity but is the leader of Ireland is entirely relevant to his biography as well as its context to Irish history. Pointing it out is not racist and not commenting on it is contrary to the search for knowledge, and therefore counter to the purpose of Wikipedia. Leftist nuts are always on the prowl to commit this kind of fact-blind idiocy. The whole reason, I, for example, looked him up is because I thought, "that's interesting. Irish doesn't have a V in it and that is obviously not an Irish name. Wonder what the story is?" Thankfully, the simple fact of where it comes from was in the article. If you just want to be offended, go elsewhere. Venqax (talk) 16:46, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2017

Hi. Please create a category for religion for Leo Varadhkar and mention it as Roman Catholicism. (Source: https://twitter.com/campaignforleo/status/441152971972575232 ) 122.178.70.163 (talk) 05:56, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done: The guidance for inclusion in Category:Irish Roman Catholics is that the person being Roman Catholic "was or is a defining characteristic or related to their notability and where the person has self-identified as a Roman Catholic" (emphasis added). Sorry, but I don't see that Mr. Varadkar being Catholic is a defining characteristic for why he merits a Wikipedia article. —KuyaBriBriTalk 15:33, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

More stupidity. If he is in fact, RC, then it should be included. It is personal info about him, just like anything else. Whether it is relevant for whatever purpose is not within the purview of the article to assess. If it is a fact, leaving it out is agenda-driven, not "neutral". In this case, as a politician, his religion may be particularly relevant. Stop with the attempt to hide information on Wikipedia, of all places. Venqax (talk) 16:52, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 01:36, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2017

Minister Varadkar ran "Unsuccessfully" in 1999 and was co-opted in "2003", not 2013 to Fingal County Council. 137.191.234.106 (talk) 12:25, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Good Spot will change now. Finnegas (talk) 17:39, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Can anybody clarify his expected date of election as Taoiseach, please?

Quoting the Irish Times, our article currently says Varadkar is expected to be elected Taoiseach when the Dail next meets on (Tuesday) July 13th, but RTE says here: "Mr Varadkar, who is on course to be elected taoiseach in the Dáil next Wednesday, ... ".

Can anybody sort out this apparent contradiction, please, so that if necessary we can fix our article? (Of course this should presumably become academic by next Thursday at the latest). Tlhslobus (talk) 04:17, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, please don't bother, as I've now found the explanation in the Irish Times (it got changed to Wednesday to leave Tuesday for farewells to Enda), and I will shortly amend the article myself.Tlhslobus (talk) 04:36, 10 June 2017 (UTC) Done.Tlhslobus (talk) 05:11, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Reliable Source citation wanted for '1st FG Taoiseach succeeding FG Taoiseach'

Among his other firsts, Varadkar, if elected as expected, will be the first FG Taoiseach to succeed an FG Taoiseach (and Kenny will be the first FG Taoiseach to be succeeded by an FG Taoiseach). This is obvious from a look at the table of Office-holders in the Taoiseach article, and I would normally just put the statement in and not bother about a citation unless or until it got a Citation Needed tag (as is allowed for any statement that is not expected to attract such a CN tag). But as I don't want to give any 'article quality' excuses to delay posting at ITN (In The News) once he's elected Taoiseach, I'm looking for a Reliable Source citation (at least until after it's been on and off ITN), and I haven't yet found one. Can anybody else find one, please? Tlhslobus (talk) 03:50, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

On reflection I've decided to put it in (wikilinked to the list of Taoisigh) under our 'Citation unlikely to be called for' rule in WP:RS (as it is easily verified from the list of Taoisigh), and per WP:IAR (as depriving our readers of relevant information for 'tactical' reasons does not improve the encyclopedia). If somebody flags it with a CN before ITN, and if we can't find one, then we can always take it out. But in the meantime it would still be useful if somebody can find a RS citation.Tlhslobus (talk) 05:31, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation

First, the line regarding the pronunciation of his name and the link to the IPA for Irish is wrong. There is no V or symbol for it in Irish, and no raised small-case i symbol in Irish IPA. So it sends people to the IPA for Irish for guidance on lʲː and ˈvˠ, neither of which exist in Irish or its IPA. What is the point of that? Venqax (talk) 17:01, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

I agree with you. There is no point listing a so-called "Irish" pronunciation, using a /vˠ/ phoneme which does not in fact exist in Irish. It may be worth listing an English pronunciation, for which I don't have a written source, but my transcription from what is heard at 0:15 in https://www.rte.ie/news/player/2017/0523/21178228-leo-varadkar/ would be /vəˈrædkər/. Nothing against also including an Irish pronunciation, but the one given is unconvincing for the reason you say. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 14:04, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
And if it is necessary to show the (English) pronunciation of "Leo" at all, then it would be /ˈliːoʊ/ in Wikipedia's abstracted transcription scheme. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 14:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Just to add regarding the Irish, there is a slender consonant /vʲ/, but the equivalent broad consonant given is /w/. There are clearly loan words where a "v" exists in a broad context, e.g. vodca, but I don't think I have access to a dictionary with pronunciations that shows what phoneme is used in these words. If there is in fact a /vˠ/ used in such loan-words, then the transcription scheme at Help:IPA for Irish needs updating to include this fact. Currently it has a footnote to /w/ saying "Also /vˠ/ in some positions in some dialects", but this is somewhat unclear. Is it claiming that there is an actual phonemic contrast between /w/ and /vˠ/ in some positions, or merely that [w] and [vˠ] are in complementary distribution? I don't think we can use /vˠ/ unless the transcription scheme supports it, and not only for "some dialects". --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 14:40, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Agrees, there is no point listing an Irish pronunciation for a name that doesn't exist in Irish. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 15:17, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomenclature

I removed a line in the lead calling Varadkar a "person of color" for a variety of reasons, not least that the Irish use the spelling "colour".

The crux is that "people of colo(u)r" is very rarely used by reliable Irish sources, or British, and I dare say that CNN and New York Times would prefer to say "ethnic minority", "minority ethnic" or "non-white". The third is problematic in places (I do believe Ireland is included) where there is no census question of "race". It seems that "minority ethnic" is preferred nomenclature in Ireland, see here (ignore the theme) and here. Anarcho-authoritarian (talk) 21:33, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2017

Change 'went to Palmerstown Kings Hospital to went to Coolmine Community College' MIchaelp92 (talk) 18:53, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done:. The reference at the end of the paragraph supports the current wording. Unless you can demonstrate that it is unreliable, and provide an alternative reliable source, it would be impossible to make the change you've requested. RivertorchFIREWATER 21:12, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Taioseach

This article might be clearer if after its first usage of the term "taoiseach" it clarified that this means the Irish Prime Minister. Vorbee (talk) 17:34, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Probably. It's wouldn't be quite accurate, anyway. The Taoiseach is what the Irish head of government is called. It's roughly equivalent to prime minister but not precisely. A loose analogy would be Luxembourg's head of state: he's roughly equivalent to a king but he isn't a king, he's a grand duke. In any event, "Taoiseach" is linked (as it is in the articles for the seven Taoisigh who preceded him), so the definition is only one click away. RivertorchFIREWATER 13:14, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
Anglocentric? Given Ireland's place in the British Isles, close political and cultural ties with the United States and Commonwealth countries like Canada and Australia and the fact that English is the main language of politics and business,not to mention the adoption Westminster style politics where the Toiaseach plays exactly the same role as the UK PM, that shouldn't be a concern. The Prime Minister of Spain is actually a President, more specifically President of the Government of Spain (Presidente del Gobierno de España). However, Wikipedia lists him as "Prime Minister". Is that Anglocentrism? No, it's just English. 84.197.8.204 (talk) 10:05, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Sexuality: can we mention predessor in the introduction?

The article introduction currently takes a lot of time to highlight what Varadkar's personal bedroom preferences are, giving them a particularly draw out coverage as if they are an achievement somehow. In this apparently essential subject for focus, in the all important race to be "the first" this and that, can we mention that Varadkar is actually only the SECOND active homosexual leader of the Blueshirts and namecheck his direct party predecessor Eoin O'Duffy specifically here? This article from the allegedly Irish Times discusses this interesting fact in a review of Fearghal McGarry's biography. This shows that FG actually had homosexuals in their leadership, literally from day one, not just a recent trend. Claíomh Solais (talk) 19:08, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

For starters, I see nothing in the article about "Varadkar's personal bedroom preferences". If you're referring to his sexual orientation (something quite different), we follow what reliable sources have to say—no more, no less.
It is a statistical inevitability that nearly every movement of any appreciable size has had non-heterosexual people in its leadership. Does the article suggest otherwise? I don't see it.
I'm not quite clear on what you changes you're proposing. The article says nothing about the Blueshirts. How can someone who died in 1944 be Varadkar's "direct party prdecessor"? RivertorchFIREWATER 19:25, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Ah, Big Sword, really? It's not "a lot of time" - it's one, single, sentence. "Allegedly Irish Times"? Really, wtf?! I suppose that is in line with your recent attempt to paint Mary McAleese as "British"... But, while we're talking about Leo's sexuality, and Eoin O'Duffy: you've also been writing about Mary McAleese's son's sexuality; and Colm O'Gorman being manipulated by "tentacles" from abroad... you seem to think about people who happen to be gay a lot... BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:21, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't believe in the reactionary pseudo-science of psychoanalysis, but thanks anyway Dr. Freud. All manner of sociological phenomenon are interesting from an intellectual perspective, particularly social decay in late capitalist societies. Back to the topic at hand. It is actually mentioned twice in the introduction alone... the entire second paragraph is decidated to non-achievements, like sexual preferences and the fact that he is half-Indian (strange, we don't mention that Dev was the "first person of part Cuban ancestry to become Taoiseach", etc, etc. Now, this whole stuff is either overkill, or we should add other tidbits into the fray such as the fact that FG have had a homosexual leader before. Claíomh Solais (talk) 12:42, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
If you'd like to propose specific changes to the article and can provide reliable sources to back them up, please do. But substantive changes should not be based on anyone's personal viewpoints. I'm sorry, I may be misreading this, but you appear to have some sort of axe to grind. RivertorchFIREWATER 12:55, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

'the first from a minority ethnic background to hold the office'

Not so, no matter what his admirers may claim. De Valera, first to hold the office, was famously of mixed Hispanic background (and FG, Varadkar's own party, delighted in referring to him as the 'Spanish Onion'). An edit is called for. Maoltuile (talk) 08:56, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Ethnicity and religion of mother?

In the article we are told that Varadkar's mother was an Irish Catholic... is there any solid evidence for this? Howell is very much a non-Irish, British (specifically Welsh) surname. And suspiciously, the Varadkar-Howell family not only met and spent time in England, but decided to have Leo attend an Anglican-ran school once they had moved to Ireland. Has his mother ever appeared in public? Has there ever been public testimony/credible evidence that Varadkar himself was baptised in the Catholic Church? Claíomh Solais (talk) 14:07, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Did you look at the citation and accompanying footnote? RivertorchFIREWATER 21:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
"Suspiciously"?! "public testimony" Are you for real? You have to be very Catholic to be Taoiseach, apparently... BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 09:57, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Global Indian

According to whom is Leo Varadkar a "global Indian". He is not a citizen of India according to any reputable source, and has Narendra Modi ever mentioned him as such?213.233.132.150 (talk) 14:03, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

The media in India consider him one of ours. He's an inspirational story of what Indian emigrants can achieve and he's definitely of Indian ethnicity, even if he does not carry our passport. After our sister Savita was let down so horrifically by the Irish healthcare service, we are happy that our brother fixed the problem. It is fitting.84.197.8.204 (talk) 14:12, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Wow, your sister is Savita and your brother is Leo?! Small world. Leo Vardkar is IRISH. Ireland (the country, that is not India and of which he is Taoiseach) isn't America, and there are no hyphenated Irish.213.233.149.6 (talk) 14:22, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Are you ashamed of his Indian origins and trying to play this down? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.233.132.190 (talk) 10:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Varadkar's Indian origin is a fact of life, and this article shouldn't try to downplay it to avoid nonsense charges of "racism". Indians have a right to be proud that a member of their diaspora has risen so high. Think of how the Irish felt about the Kennedy family's prominence in US politics. WheelOfTime22 (talk) 16:28, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
The sources for this are very dubious, it's basically an interview with Varadkar's cousins in India, who are saying this "global indian" stuff. I've removed it from the lead as it definitely does not belong there but I habe left it in the section for now. It will need better sourcing if it is to stay. Spleodrach (talk) 13:28, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
The 'Modi connection' is especially dubious - other than that it's a harmless piece of trivia - the Indian relatives are proud of him, why wouldn't they be? Pincrete (talk) 18:43, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
Indians who know of Varadkar are proud. Stop being racist downplaying his Indian ethnicity as if it is shameful. 84.197.8.204 (talk) 12:18, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Indians have every right to be proud of the son of a 'local boy made good'. That does not give you the right to add false info the this article. Also, stop throwing around accusations of racism. His Indian origins are detailed in the Early life and Personal life sections. He's not Indian-Irish just Irish with an Indian father. Patrick Pearse had an English father, Pearse is not described as English-Irish just Irish. Spleodrach (talk) 18:28, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Repeated vandalism

I suggest protecting this page from IP edits given the recent repeated vandalism, thoughts? Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Anon IPs. Varadkar's nationality is Irish. His ethnicity is Irish-Indian, but nationality != ethnicity. His Indian heritage is addressed: in both the 'Personal life' section and also in the lead. Edit-warring against consensus will get you blocked. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:56, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

His nationality and ethnicity are both Indian-Irish. And why are we setting nationality above ethnicity? 109.134.72.118 (talk) 11:32, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Give it a rest. Spleodrach (talk) 12:50, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request

Please amend first line to read "Indian-Irish politician", reflecting his binationality and Indian heritage. 37.228.248.31 (talk) 19:33, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See multiple discussions further up the page on this topic - there is clearly no consensus at this time. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 21:04, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Please replace "Tioaseach" with "Prime Minister" as more people know what that is.

The term Taoiseach, is wikilinked, just click on it to find out the meaning if you don't know. This is how wikipedia works! Spleodrach (talk) 18:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: See reason Spleodrach's reason. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 12:25, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Please amend the article to clarify that he is the first "Indian-origin gay Irish Prime Minister". This has been featured prominently in multiple news stories by the likes of the BBC, CNN, Bloomberg, Financial Times, Hindustan Times, Indian Express, Russia Today etc. It deserves similar prominence here. 178.197.239.11 (talk) 13:26, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

The second paragraph of the intro already contains all this info, so already done! Spleodrach (talk) 18:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 Already done Again agree with Spleodrach's reason all this information is in the second paragraph of the intro and really doesn't need to be repeated so soon. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 12:25, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2018

It say's he is the first of Indian origin, it should state half Indian origin since he is half Irish and half Indian. Samiam1123 (talk) 13:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Leaving aside the fact that this is your very first edit, this has been asked many times before, and the answer is no. There is no consensus to include this. Spleodrach (talk) 16:11, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Danski454 (talk) 17:13, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
This article has been taken over by PC-fascists. "Free" encyclopedia indeed!213.233.150.61 (talk) 17:19, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
 Not done ―Abelmoschus Esculentus 04:39, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Varadkar is an Indian name

He's Ireland's first Indian Prime Minister, and "V" is not in the Gaelic alphabet. Dat ain't racist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.228.248.130 (talk) 12:21, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DBigXrayᗙ 12:27, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Has anyone told Éamon Ó Cuív? Does he take account of this when telling constituents to "Votáil #1"? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 15:10, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Sam Sailor 13:58, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

PC Fascism

Please unlock this article to the global community, so we can collectively reach decisions about Vardkar and what elements of his life are encyclopedic or not. I don't know of any of Vardkar's predecessors who got such protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.197.8.204 (talk) 13:49, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

 Already done Article is no longer protected. Feel free to discuss changes here on the talk page. Sam Sailor 14:00, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Censorship

Again Varedkar's Indianness and public homosexuality are downplayed, even censored, despite these being the most interesting things about him according to the media. 91.181.120.213 (talk) 06:44, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

For all your concern, you can't even spell the subject's name correctly!
This is the second paragraph from the intro: (my bolding)
He was 38 years old on his election as Taoiseach, becoming the youngest person to hold the office. During the 2015 same-sex marriage referendum, he became the first openly gay Irish government minister. He is Ireland's first and the world's fourth openly gay head of government in modern times. He is also the first Irish government leader of Indian heritage.
Furthermore, there is more details on his "'Indianness" (sic) in the Early life section; and more details on his "public homosexuality" in the Personal life section. Kindly explain exactly how this is censorship? Spleodrach (talk) 09:43, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
What gives you the right to undo edits about Vardkar? Wiki belongs to everyone. 14:08, 20 November 2018 (UTC)14:08, 20 November 2018 (UTC)14:08, 20 November 2018 (UTC)14:08, 20 November 2018 (UTC)91.181.120.213 (talk) 14:08, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
You have not answered my question, where is the censorship? And you are so concerned about the subject that you misspelt his name yet again! Spleodrach (talk) 20:28, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Ya sorry ya I can't speak Indian. Idiot! I am talking about the fact that you and the other Social Injustice PCs have accused me of "edit warring" for standing by my edits.10:47, 21 November 2018 (UTC)10:47, 21 November 2018 (UTC)10:47, 21 November 2018 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.181.120.213 (talk)
91.181.120.213, I suggest you stop edit warring otherwise you will be blocked from edit warring. There is no need to include "homosexual" in the first line of the lede when they are mentioned later on. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 11:30, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
Ya ya "no need" ok... Wait, what? Why do you get to say that there's "no need" for info? 12:17, 21 November 2018 (UTC)12:17, 21 November 2018 (UTC)12:17, 21 November 2018 (UTC)91.181.120.213 (talk) 12:17, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
There is no censorship going on, the facts that he is gay, and of Indian descent, are clearly presented in the body of the article. These are not defining features of the subject however, and do not need to be mentioned in the first sentence of the lead. It's OK for you to disagree with that; it's not OK for you to direct insults at other editors, as you did above, or for you to try to force these changes through against consensus. Continue in this vein and I will report you for edit warring and personal attacks, and I will ask for the page to be protected so that IP users cannot edit it. Thanks GirthSummit (blether)

13:54, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that the OP's spelling ability is interesting or relevant. The manufactured "appeal to consensus" is however very relevant and concerning. Lots of people have requested that the lead include his sexual orientation and Indian heritage, since these have been the subject of much media attention since his candidacy for high office. Yet edits are canned because some editors don't like them and they cry "consensus!".213.233.147.130 (talk) 14:01, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
All that information is already present. Xavier Bettel's article does not mention that he is gay in the opening sentence. Sajid Javid's article does not mention his Pakistani origins in the opening sentence. This is how things are done in wikipedia, if you don't like it or don't undertand it, that's too bad but don't start bleating about censorship when clearly there is none. Also, the IP editors don't seem to get consensus, so I suggest you read this: WP:Consensus. Also, just recently, User:Girth Summit, User:JackintheBox, User:Bellezzasolo, User:Mélencron and me (count 'em 5 users) have reverted the IP edits. So this is what is meant by no consensus for your edits. Spleodrach (talk) 15:37, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

So many snowflakes here, getting riled up because the Irish Prime Minister has the gay and has darker skin than most. Go home, editors, you're drunk. 84.253.63.214 (talk) 09:54, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Liberalism surely?

Given Vardkar's Government just legalised abortion, and his Health Minister is trying to take the Catholic Church out of healthcare, not to mention his pro-immigrant and pro-homosexual stances, it makes no sense to include him in Conservatism. Varedkar is a gay, liberal Indian - not a Conservative. 37.228.248.100 (talk) 12:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Not done: Varadkar is Irish. A person's sexuality does not define their political ideology. Simon Harris is not "taking the Catholic Church out of healthcare." Implementing the result of a referendum voted for by 66% of the electorate does not change the fact that Varadkar and his party are very much economically conservative. (Also please note that new sections go at the bottom of the page, not the top). BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 13:05, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Bastun, please stop feeding the trolls. Spleodrach (talk) 20:53, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Edit 1: What's "economically conservative" for you, mate? All fundmanetal doctrines of Varadkar's economic policy are very much in line with other established, accepted-as-liberal political movements like Emanuel Macron's LREM and Christian Lindner's FDP. Remember that Varadkar's a European from Europe, not an American from America.84.197.8.204 (talk) 09:04, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Edit 2: Oh and Varadkar's government proposed and supported the "Yes" side in the Abortion Ref. Just thought I would mention that too. 84.197.8.204 (talk) 09:06, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Edit 3: Hi Spleodrach, responses from people like you are why so many people think that Wikipedia has a bias against IP editors. Nobody has a monopoly on wisdom, but you guys love using specious arguments like "consensus" to shut us up. And instead of engaging with the thoughts of AnonIP above me, you just write him off for his choice of language and typos. There's a big question mark over whether parties like Fine Gael and even Germany's CDU can be considered as "Conservative" these days. 84.197.8.204 (talk) 09:11, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
(Sorry, Spleodrach, I know I shouldn't, but...) Anon IP - have you seen the state of the health service, the spend on private agency nursing vs the absence of hiring and retention incentives for permanent employee nurses, the failure to implement Sláintecare, the subsidising of landlords and the private rental market at the expense of social housing, the homelessness crisis, the gifting of a €300 million hospital to a religious order... Varadkar is, essentially, a Tory. Or worse. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 09:42, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bastún - this is Wikipedia, and here we describe the world in neutral factual terms. We don't pick sides. Varadkar is pro-free market, social liberal just like Christian Lindner of the FDP. His liberalism is evidenced by his recent positions on abortion, LGBT rights and removing conservative clauses from the constitution like Blasphemy and the position of women in the home. The state of the healthcare service doesn't matter, because unless you can prove that Varadkar wants the healthcare service to provide substandard of care to the poor, he's just another ineffective politician. There are many ineffective administrators in the history of Ireland and the World, and being bad at your job doesn't make you a Conservative. 84.197.8.204 (talk) 09:53, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Here on WP we don't pick sides, we describe subjects according to what reliable sources say about them... WP is also not a forum, so I think we're done here. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:21, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Did you just cite the Mirror and the Murdoch-controlled Times as reliable sources? Even worse, you cited Opinion pieces - not factual journalism. Bastún, Null Points. 84.197.8.204 (talk) 23:14, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2018

"He is not, however, the youngest head of government in the Irish Republic; both Éamon de Valera and Michael Collins were younger on assuming the office."Italic text


Collins was never head of the government of the Irish Republic, as the Republic was not established until long after his death.

When DeValera became head of government of the Irish Republic, he was much older than Varadkar.


Better:

"He is not, however, the youngest head of an Irish government; both Éamon de Valera and Michael Collins were younger on assuming the office." NorgelBoy (talk) 22:48, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done. I have inserted an edited version of your suggested sentence, clarifying the meaning of "the office". – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:04, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Nazism?

As in the way that editors demonised IP editors above for claiming that Varadker is essentially a liberal, you'd think that this was a branch of the National Socialist Party, or perhaps the Censorship wing of the Bolsheviks. Your choice.23:11, 19 December 2018 (UTC)~

You know, every now and then, I think you might like to hear something from us, nice and easy, but there's just one thing, you see we never ever do nothing, nice, easy, we always do it nice and rough, so we're gonna take the beginning of this aticle, and do it easy, but then we're gonna do the finish rough, this is the way we do "Proud Leo", and we're trolling, trolling, trolling on the Wikipedia! Spleodrach (talk) 23:17, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a discussion forum. If you have a request for an edit, please make it in the form "Change X to Y", citing reliable sources as appropriate, and ensuring that you have consensus prior to making the request. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 17:59, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Change Third Paragraph of Intro

The third paragraph of the intro reads: "Varadkar was born in Dublin and studied medicine at Trinity College Dublin. He spent several years as a non-consultant hospital doctor before qualifying as a general practitioner in 2010. In 2004, he was co-opted onto Fingal County Council and served as deputy mayor, before his election to Dáil Éireann in 2007."

I want it to read something like: "Varadkar was born in Dublin and studied medicine at Trinity College Dublin. He spent several years as a non-consultant hospital doctor before qualifying as a general practitioner in 2010. In 2004, he was co-opted onto Fingal County Council and served as deputy mayor, before his election to Dáil Éireann in 2007. When first elected to the Dáil, Varadkar was one of its most Conservative members, opposing Civil Partnerships for Same-Sex couples. In 2014 he described himself in Dáil Éireann as "pro-life". (Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/leo-varadkar-s-shifting-view-on-abortion-will-be-key-to-campaign-1.3351288) Since 2015, he has embraced major liberal and progressive stances such as supporting Same-Sex marriage and abortion. In 2017, his Government held a referendum to liberalise Ireland's restricted abortion law with Varadkar campaigning for liberalisation."

Can you do it?37.228.248.68 (talk) 13:20, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Do you have a source for his opposition to civil partnerships? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 14:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Apologies, he never spoke against Civil Partnerships - he spoke against gay adoption, during the Civil Partnerships debate, but voted in favour of Civil Partnerships. https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2010-01-27/19/ 37.228.248.68 (talk) 15:38, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
I think his argument may be a little more nuanced than you give him credit for. I wouldn't characterise it simply as opposition to adoption by same-sex parents. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 18:53, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
I agree with Bastun, and therefore oppose this request. Spleodrach (talk) 20:24, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Bradv🍁 04:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

he is not OF Indian heritage.

I think a better way to phrase his background in the introduction would be to say that he is the Prime Minister WITH Indian heritage. His mom is Irish, is she not? So he isn't 100% Indian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 55.128.28.92 (talk) 16:59, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Of Indian heritage is the factual case, and is covered.SeoR (talk) 21:08, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Irish name

After taking a course in Irish fluency recently, there was a photo with Leo Varadkar and his name written as Gaeilge as ‘Leo de Varad’. Is this relevant for inclusion? Theclownfromit (talk) 19:54, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

That is a made-up form, one many Irish-speakers of my acquaintance consider an abomination. His name has, no surprise, no natural Irish form, like a significant % of the Irish population, so no, thanks for the information, but no inclusion.SeoR (talk) 21:08, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Just to be clear, the feeling I mention relates to "makey-upey" Irish, it's nothing about the person, particular backgrounds, etc. With its long history, many feel Irish does not need the "gift" of invented forms where not truly needed.SeoR (talk) 21:10, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
No, as it is obviously totally made up. Varadkar is an Indian name, there is no Irish for it. Spleodrach (talk) 00:59, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Archive 1

Leo is no longer Taoiseach...?

Is there any established way of dealing with the fact that Leo resigned as Taoiseach yesterday evening?

Per the Constitution, he continues to carry on his duties until a new Taoiseach is appointed. This is what we typically call a "caretaker Taoiseach". However, more accurately he is performing the duties of Taoiseach in a caretaker capacity.

To me there is a difference between merely performing the duties of the office of Taoiseach and actually being Taoiseach, and this should be reflected in the wiki page somewhere. Put simply, Leo is not the incumbent Taoiseach of Ireland.

Does anyone else have any thoughts? 134.226.6.200 (talk) 11:01, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

If you feel it mertis inclusion, you could simply say something like "He resigned on 20th November, but continues to perform the duties of the Taoiseach in a caretaker capacity until the next Taoiseeach is appointed." or similar, and reference the news stories about his resignation? But it's a minor point that nobody will care about in a few weeks, so consider WP:10YT. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:20, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Vardkar is a liberal

Vardkar is a right-liberal and his party is right-liberal. Please update the article to reflect this. 2A00:79E1:ABC:110E:6070:2B8B:B245:C885 (talk) 14:39, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Not done:. The requested changes would require reliable third-party references. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 15:35, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2020

  1. At the end of § Personal life, wikilink Irish language to help distinguish it from the numerous uses in the Irish nationality sense elsewhere in the article. Also improve reference and get rid of AMP link:
    Varadkar completed a course in professional Irish, and devised an Irish language form of his surname, Leo de Varad.[1]
  2. In the lead, rearrange the last three paragraphs to be closer to chronological. As is, his cabinet posts are listed in reverse chronological order, and it takes some thinking to realize the politically significant fact that he was out of the closet during the leadership election. Also convert the final footnote to {{Cite news}}.
    [...] He later served in the Kenny Government, as Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport from 2011 to 2014, Minister for Health from 2014 to 2016, and Minister for Social Protection from 2016 to 2017.[2]
    During the 2015 same-sex marriage referendum, Varadkar came out as gay, becoming the first Irish Minister to do so.[3]
    In May 2017, Kenny announced that he would resign as Taoiseach and Fine Gael Leader. Varadkar stood in the leadership election to replace him; although more party members voted for his opponent, Simon Coveney, he won by a significant margin among members of the Oireachtas, and was elected leader on 2 June. 12 days later, he was appointed Taoiseach, and at 38 years old became the youngest person to hold the office.[4] He is Ireland's first, and the world's fourth, openly gay head of government in modern times,[5] and first Taoiseach of Indian heritage. The Economist says of him: "Not since the days of Éamon de Valera has Ireland had a leader as globally recognisable as Leo Varadkar."[6]
  3. In § 2020, Varadkar's name is misspelled in the parenthetical phrase ", which Varakar made under Section 112 of the Broadcast Act,". But actually, I'd just delete the entire phrase. The reader does not know what "Section 112 of the Broadcast Act" is, and someone who can guess that it grants the government the power to compel broadcast of emergency messages would not find it remarkable. Most countries have such a provision, and usually it is only a procedural detail as broadcasters are happy to broadcast such important news. Only if there is some objection (and I have not heard of any in this case) is it politically significant.

196.247.24.22 (talk) 00:06, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Done. Spleodrach (talk) 12:40, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
@Spleodrach: Thank you, but... are you sure? I looked at the current article and
  1. Special:Diff/950317425 added the Irish language wikilink, but the reference at the end of the sentence is still lacking the author name and publication link, and the URL still has a ?mode=amp suffix.
  2. Special:Diff/950317873 started the requested rearrangement, but did much less than requested. The list of ministerial posts held is still in reverse chronological order, and the Economist quote about his global profile needs to be relocated to the final paragraph about his term as Taoiseach. Further, the reference for that quote is missing the conversion to {{cite news}} and still includes a [bare-url-without-text] which is discouraged by WP:Citing sources#Avoid embedded links.
  3. Special:Diff/950317574 made the requested change, thank you.
Could you (or anyone) please make the rest of the changes? I tried to ensure the wikitext on the talk page cold be cut and pasted into the article. 196.247.24.22 (talk) 10:14, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ D'Arcy, Ciarán (September 8, 2017). "Maith an fear: Taoiseach awarded certificate for Irish language course". The Irish Times. Retrieved 2019-06-15.
  2. ^ "More 'disappointments than appointments' over cabinet selection – Varadkar". RTÉ News. 8 June 2017. Retrieved 10 June 2017. Mr Varadkar, who is on course to be elected taoiseach in the Dáil next Wednesday, ... He described his meetings with Fianna Fáil and Independents yesterday as "fruitful".
  3. ^ Armstrong, Kathy (2 June 2017). "'Significant step for equality'- the world reacts to Leo Varadkar becoming the new Fine Gael leader". Irish Independent. Dublin: Independent News & Media. ISSN 0021-1222. Retrieved 25 August 2018.
  4. ^ "Leo Varadkar: Born to an Indian father, a historic gay PM for Ireland". Hindustan Times. New Delhi: HT Media. Agence France-Presse. 3 June 2017. ISSN 0972-0243. Retrieved 13 November 2017.
  5. ^ Kwak, Bethia (27 May 2017). "Ireland appears set to elect first openly gay prime minister". NBC News. Retrieved 13 November 2017. If elected, Varadkar would only be the fourth openly gay world leader in modern history. The others include Prime Minister of Luxembourg, Xavier Bettel, former Prime Minister of Belgium, Elio Di Rupo, and former Prime Minister of Iceland, Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir.
  6. ^ "The rise of Sinn Fein, an Irish party that once espoused violence". The Economist. February 6, 2020.
 Done! GoingBatty (talk) 00:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2020

Add to the Taoiseach section of the infobox "Successor = Micheál Martin (designate)" to be consistent with the Leader of the Opposition infobox section on Micheál Martin's page that lists Mary Lou McDonald as his designated successor to that office. Eggsandmarxism (talk) 00:55, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done - Nope. WP:NOTCRYSTAL. Programme still needs to be passed by three parties. Will also remove from MM's page. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 00:57, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Makes sense, as long as it's consistent. Eggsandmarxism (talk) 01:16, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

"First gay minister" ...

@Spleodrach: and others - rather than edit-war over this, let's analyse the sources. The link referenced quotes, "As well as becoming Ireland’s first gay prime minister, Varadkar, 38, will also become the country’s youngest leader, and the first from an ethnic minority background" (my emphasis).

Firstly, I'm not sure if Leo actually was the first gay TD ('minister' even reads weird) but okay. Secondly, the sources above only support his being the (then future) first gay Taoiseach - it does not specifically say he was the first gay 'minister'. That difference is subtle but significant.

Thoughts? - Alison ❤ 06:20, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Let's analyse the facts. No, he was not the first openly gay TD; they were John Lyons and Dominic Hannigan, both elected in 2011. Varadkar was the first serving cabinet minister to come out. Pat Carey was elected in 1997, and served as a minister from 2010 to 2011 but did not come out until 2015, after his retirement. I have added 'serving' to the text to clarify the issue, so now it reads correctly. Spleodrach (talk) 10:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Sounds good to me - thanks! - Alison ❤ 06:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Varadkar (surname) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:03, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

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