Talk:The Lawrence School, Sanawar

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controversy

Is associated with being a "rich man's " school as well as not as good in academics currently as Doon or other A leagues schools.

Some person clear;ly does not like this great institution, thus has fixed and changed the article page. Some more information on this great school: History

Founded by Sir Henry Montgomery Lawrence and Lady Honoria Lawrence, Sanawar is believed to be the first co-educational boarding school in the world.[citation needed] On 15 April 1847, a group of 14 boys and girls camped at the top of the foothills of the Himalayas. They lived under canvas for some weeks, waiting for the first buildings to be completed before the arrival of the monsoon. By 1853, the school had grown to 195 pupils when it was presented with the King's Colour, one of only six schools and colleges ever to be so honoured in the British Empire (the others being Eton, Shrewsbury, Cheltenham, the Duke of York's Royal Military School and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst).[citation needed] Sanawar has held its Colour for the longest unbroken period.[citation needed]

From its foundation, the financial burden of the school was borne by Lawrence until his death in 1857, when the government assumed responsibility as a mark of esteem to his memory.[citation needed] Under these arrangements, control of the school passed from the Board of Directors to the Crown. This was a most unusual arrangement, not repeated in any English public school.[citation needed] School motto, Lawrence School, Sanawar.

The tradition of military training at Sanawar has always been strong and was of such a high standard that several contingents of boys were enlisted from the school and sent straight to the battlefields of the First World War.[citation needed] In appreciation of this, the school was redesignated in 1920 as the "Lawrence Royal Military School" and, in 1922, the Prince of Wales presented the school with new Colours. The school Colour continues to this day to be trooped at the Founders' Celebration in early October, and Sanawar pupils continue to make a major contribution to the defence of the country.[citation needed]

Sanawar's centenary year (1947) was crucial to the development of the school. With Indian independence, the bulk of the staff and children at Sanawar returned to Britain.[citation needed] However, the then-Governor General, Lord Louis Mountbatten, presided at the centenary celebrations and read out a message from King George VI. Thereafter, control of the school passed from the Crown to the Government of India's Ministry of Defence. A further transfer in 1949 brought the school under the control of the Ministry of Education and subsequently, in 1953, to the autonomous Lawrence School (Sanawar) Society.[citation needed]

Sanawar retains strong links with its past. The chairman of the Society is the Secretary for Education, Government of India[citation needed] and, at the sesquicentennial celebrations in 1997, a message of congratulations was received from the Prince of Wales.[citation needed]

The first principal of the school was the Rev. W. J. Parker, (1848–1863). Notable events during his period include the first Founder's Day in 1849 and the opening of the chapel in 1851. Parker was followed by the Rev. J. Cole (1864–1886), the Rev. A. Hilldersley (1886–1912) and the Rev. G. D. Barne (1912–1932) who developed Sanawar into a major public school along English lines, with house and prefectorial systems, games on an organised basis, and a curriculum working towards Cambridge University examinations.[citation needed]

The school continued to evolve and modernise throughout the middle and later years of the twentieth century.[citation needed] In 1956, E. G. Carter retired as principal and was succeeded by Major R. Som Dutt (1956–1970), the school's first Indian headmaster. He laid the foundations for the school as it is today. Developments have continued since that time, most notably under the leadership of S. R. Das (1974–1988).[cit

Campus

Sanawar is situated on an independent hill spread over 139 acres (0.56 km2), about 3 kilometres from Kasauli City. The Birdwood School, a British-era building that houses the classrooms, covers an approximate area of 1-acre (4,000 m2), with no discrimination over space allocation between boys and girls. Situated on the first floor of the Birdwood School is the Barne Hall, an auditorium with two levels of seating facing a raised stage, on which the house shows, debates, quizzes and cultural performances are enacted. Extracurricular subjects such as art and sculpture are taught in spacious workshops, a little removed from the Birdwood School. [edit] Academics

The school is affiliated to the Central Board of Secondary Education, New Delhi.[citation needed]

There is a growing emphasis on the audio-visual aids in education at Sanawar.[citation needed] [edit] Old Sanawarians — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.56.152.82 (talk) 15:19, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- Well the truth of the matter is that it is a school that teaches values of "Honour, Courage and Commitment" furthered by the motto "Never Give In!" I remember boys and girls in school who were from humble backgrounds intersperced with the presence of children from wealthy and aristocratic backgrounds. The reality of life on the mountain top was an atmophere where everyone interacted on the level regardless of a childs background and/or heritage and was expected to exemplify the founding values of the school. I am sorry, then again....not really, the trivial minds futile attempt in attaching negetivity to an institution that has spread it's teachings globally via the ease of migration of it's graduates to practically every part of the globe. Never Give In Sanawar!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alcahimi (talk • contribs)
A history of substance abuse ( Sunjay Dutt being a good example).

Haphar 15:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC).[reply]

- Here we go again tsk, tsk, tsk..... Could you provide us with a family that does not experience problems. If you study any religious, political or an institution of a state you are bound to find problems. Does that mean we turn our backs on them and not look at their greater good. The enlightened mind will wade through the garbage and utilize only items of value that benefit humanity. Also one must view the lives of individuals to see what they have done and whether they have and/or are utilizing their follies to improve or assist others around them. Most learned individual prefer to listen to people with personal experience rather than individuals with theoretical knowledge. You ever wonder why companies, universities, religious groups and politicle parties are always looking for people with experience in their field to replace retiring staff and/or faculty. So, in closing try to spend time looking for good in people and you will notice an improvement even in your personal life!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alcahimi (talk • contribs)

Hi Haphar, could you clarify/ verify these points? Let's put them in the article if you have some good sources -- Lost^(talk) 16:06, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right now "original research" and hence is in the talk pages/. Currently more of an "image/perception" issue rather than something in the press.

Ok cool. -- Lost^(talk) 16:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PLEASE GIVE THE SYLLABUS OF CLASS-5 FOR ENTRANCE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.16.117 (talk) 08:04, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Someone does not like Sanawar or is jealous of Sanawar tried to vandalize this site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.14.67 (talk) 23:53, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect

Mohd salman masood (talk) 19:49, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Alumni

There is a list of alumni in this article, and a category also exists. Lists within articles are not ideal but I am aware that they are commonly used in the schools sphere of Wikipedia. The problem remains that, as with all lists, those named need to be verifiable - this means that there need to be multiple, independent reliable sources supporting the assertion that they attended the school and/or a stand-alone article to which their name is linked (& that article must contain multiple, independent reliable sources etc). There is even the potential for a breech of the biography of living people policy if this is not done.

So, let's have a short, well selected, well sourced list here, please. Anything that is unsourced and/or unlinked should go; anything where the linked article does not refer to the alumni status should also go. If the list continues to grow even with those criteria then we should look at creating a separate List of Old Sanwarians, or something similar. This article reads too much like a glorifying advertisement as it stands, without making it more so. - Sitush (talk) 13:55, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

An IP added the list to the text within Category:Old Sanawarians. I have moved it from there to List of Old Sanawarians, with a {{refimprove}} tag. There may be a lot of work for someone to do on sourcing the names, unless there is a published school register which can be cited. Moonraker (talk) 20:00, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notable alumni aka O.S.

Yes some vandals were playing round with the OS list and removing the names of distinguished O.S. We O.S. have now placed all of the O.S. in the O.S. section. Signed An O.S.

DETAILED LIST OF SOME O.S.

Armed forces Arun Khetarpal, the youngest recipient of the India's highest military decoration, Param Vir Chakra. Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, former Chief of the Naval Staff of India Air Marshal K.C. Cariappa Lt. General M.S. Shergill Lt. General T.S. Shergill Lt. General B.S. Thakker Lt. General Rajinder Singh (Rajji) Maj. Gen. N.S.Pathania Maj. General KVS Lalotra Maj. General Aneet Sahota Maj. General Jayant Varma Maj. General Ardamanjit Singh Sandhu Maj General Virpal Singh Maj. General Darshanjit Singh Grewal Maj. General Ranbir Singh (Ranny) Maj. General Mandeep Singh Rear Admiral S S Jamwal Maj General Ajai Kumar Sahgal [edit] Educators Dr. Harish Dhillon Praveen Vashisht Captain Amarjyot Singh Himmat S Dhillon Capt. Rohit Sen Bajaj Maj Gen Kanwar Vijay Singh Lalotra [edit] Film & television Sanjay Dutt, actor Iqbal Khan, actor Apoorva Lakhia, filmmaker Bunty Walia, filmmaker Rahul Roy, actor Pooja Bedi, actress and television personality Jimmy Shergill, actor Saif Ali Khan, actor Feroze Gujral, supermodel Shaad Ali, director Siddharth Kak, television personality Kirat Bhattal, actress Amar Talwar, actor Kismet Singh, television anchor Papa CJ, stand-up comedian Parikshit Sahani, actor Tenzin Thuthob Tsarong, grand nephew of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, adult Dalai Lama in the movie Kundun. Aditya Raj Kapoor Rohit Singh Negi, Filmmaker Tarun Mansukhani, Filmmaker [edit] Politics Amarinder Singh, Maharaja of Patiala. Omar Abdullah Maneka Gandhi Rao Inderjit Singh, Minister of Defence Prince Ajatshatru Singh of Jammu & Kashmir Sukhbir Singh Badal, president, Shiromani Akali Dal Chander Mohan (Chand Mohammad) Bikram Singh Majithia Emaan Singh Man [edit] Writers Sonny Mehta, publisher and editor-in-chief of Alfred A Knopf Tishaa Khosla, author Pink or Black Radhika Jha, author Smell Amba Batra Bakshi, author In Custody—Women in Tihar [edit] Sports Ajeet Bajaj, first Indian to ski to the North Pole Shiva Keshavan, represented India in Luge at Olympics Ranjit Bhatia, Rhodes Fellow, represented India in the track at the Rome Olympics 1960 Anjun Mehra, Junior Indian Boxing Team Kalaans, Indian Polo Team Col.V.P. Singh, Indian Polo Team Col. R.S.Brar, Indian Polo Team Col R.S. Sodhi (Pickles), India Polo Team Jai Shergill, Indian Polo Team Late Maj. M.S. Sekhon (Musty), Indian Polo Team Maharajkumar Ajit Singh Gaekward, Cricket Manavjit Singh Sandhu, 2006 and 2010 ISSF Trap World Shooting Champion Zorawar Singh Sandhu, Indian Shooting Team [edit] Business Ness Wadia Jehangir Wadia, Bombay Dyeing, GoAir Jyotsna Suri (née Nanda), CMD of The Lalit Group. Rana Talwar, erstwhile head of Standard Chartered Bank and currently Chairman of Centurian Bank of Punjab Jasjit S. ("Jesse") Bhattal, CEO of Nomura Holdings Asia-Pacific Wholesales Banking; formerly CEO of Lehman Brothers Asia-Pacific Tejpreet Chopra, CEO, GE India Shakti Singh, director, DLF Universal Limited, India’s largest real estate developer Kanwal Oberoi Walia, director, American Express Maharajkumar Sangram Singh Gaekward, Baroda Rayon Corporation Rakesh Mohan, Mohan Meakin Limited Pankaj Munjal, Hero Motors Geetanjali Kirloskar, Toyota Kirloskar Motors Atul Sobti, Managing director, Ranbaxy Lab. Ltd. Rajiv Suri, Board of Directors Burberry Middle East and Group CEO Retail, Jashanmal Group of Companies, Dubai Kiran Nadar, philanthropist Punit Renjhen, CEO Deloitte Consulting LLP Others

Dr. Atul Gurtu, TIFR and CERN Dr. Harbans Rajpal Singh Nagpal, Paris, France: Psychoanalyst, Doctor to Embassy of India. Jetsun Pema, Queen of Bhutan Karamveer Singh (IPS), DGP UTTAR PRADESH P.P.S Sidhu (IPS), SPL DGP CRPF Harpreet Singh Sidhu (IPS) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.200 (talk) 20:26, 3 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

SOME VANDALS ARE PLAYING AROUND (deleting) WITH THE LIST OF OS. I HAVE BROUGHT THAT LIST BACK. IT IS VERY ACCURATE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.56.152.82 (talk) 15:19, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Request to editors: Before editing, please check the facts. Please do not only use your memory. Thank you. --Bhadani 12:56, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.14.67 (talk) 23:59, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The list was reduced by an established editor who left a clear description of what they were doing. It was well within Wikipedia policy. Accusing other editors of "vandalism" is not, please refrain from doing this. The list was reduced to include only those that meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. If any mentioned above can meet those same guidelines, please create and article for them, citing reliable sources, and then add them to the alumni section in this article. Also please keep in mind that it isn't about what is "true" it is about what can be verified.--RadioFan (talk) 14:05, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Name, and "Sanawar"

Is the school called "The Lawrence School, Sanawar", or is Sanawar its location. If the former, then the page should be moved back to that title; if the latter, then the location should be indicated in the text. It's not clear at present, and the school's website is down at the moment so I can't check. PamD 15:57, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is little point in linking the name of Sanawar in the lead, as that is a redirect to Lawrence School (Sanawar). Moonraker (talk) 03:43, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The title reflects how this multi location schools are normally named. If anything the title should be "The Lawrence School" and cover all locations, not just this one.--RadioFan (talk) 07:36, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's confusing because Sanawar is not listed as its location in the infobox or the lead sentence. PamD 08:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To me the statement "If anything the title should be "The Lawrence School" and cover all locations, not just this one" is a symptom of this editor's unexplained aim of slighting the schools. Each of them is plainly notable in its own right. Moonraker (talk) 01:35, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Any issue with merging any and all related Lawrence School articles to a single article with appropriate redirects.--RadioFan (talk) 02:40, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure if that is a question? All that the four schools have in common now is Lawrence's name. He founded two of them, two more were founded in memory of him. All of the schools are notable and quite distinct. In my view, to suggest the merger of all schools with "Queen Elizabeth" in their names would be quite a similar proposal. Moonraker (talk) 03:03, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So, is "Sanawar" a place? or a nickname for the school? It needs to be explained in the lead paragraph, please. PamD 08:28, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, the lead now discusses "Sanawar", in terms of "in the name of the school". It appears that "Sanawar" is part of the school name, not a geographical disambiguator. So the article should be moved to "Lawrence School, Sanawar", as that appears to be its name. If this is not the name, then as Sanawar is not a notable place in Wikipedia terms it seems inappropriate as a disambiguator, so the article should be moved to "Lawrence School (Himachal Pradesh)", or perhaps "Lawrence School (Kasauli)"? The school's website is not responding as I write so I can't see how they describe their location or postal address. But a geographical disambiguation using a term which is not a Wikipedia notable place seems inappropriate. PamD 08:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Sanawar" is certainly part of the name, and indeed the school is often referred to as just "Sanawar". That was originally used in the name as a disambiguator, as there are other schools called "The Lawrence School", but the school's web site is called "sanawar.edu.in" and the home page begins "The Lawrence School - Sanawar, established in 1847..." That page also has tabs marked "About Sanawar" and "Life in Sanawar", which are both about the school, not about a larger place of that name. So, following your logic, PamD, I agree that Lawrence School, Sanawar, or even The Lawrence School, Sanawar, would be more in line with naming policy. Moonraker (talk) 04:31, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary heading

Some person who surely does not like this great school is often changing the article on this school. They is no other reason for his changing the article which is very accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.202 (talk) 23:15, 5 March 2012 (UTC) note, this comment comes from an IP address which has been blocked for vandalism, particularly of this page[reply]

Generally there are edit comments on each edit, please read those and if you have an issue, contact that editor directly. I dont think anyone has a problem with the school but, speaking for myself at least, do have a problem with poorly written articles, especially those that are based in original research. Wikipedia insists on including verifiable content only.--RadioFan (talk) 02:13, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links

Transferring some useful links here deleted by "RadioFan", who keeps on deleting things from the article. Moonraker (talk) 19:34, 10 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It’s mountain biking for Sanawar boys in The Tribune, 2005
Salaried class shying away in The Times of India, July 4, 2004 [ref name=salaried]
Bella Jaisinghani, Old boys raise a toast in The Times of India, Nov 30, 2006
Sanawar at odds with itself in The Tribune, 2003 [ref name=malik]

I dont appreciate the "keeps deleting things" comment. External links are not to be used as a dumping ground. Anything which doesn't contribute to the article should be removed. Adding these links to the talk page for others to use to improve the article and possibly use as references is very appropriate however.--RadioFan (talk) 02:31, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I shan't repeat the comment, but if you were to add material to the article as well as deleting it that would be more obviously constructive. Moonraker (talk) 03:41, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Possible Old Sanawarians lacking citations

These all need to be checked for their attendance and/or their notability before being added to the list again. Moonraker (talk) 00:33, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maharajkumar Ajit Singh Gaekward, cricketer
Zorawar Singh Sandhu, Indian Shooting Team
Taranjit Singh Sandhu, diplomat [1]
Major General N. S. Pathania
Major General Kanwar Vijay Singh Lalotra (K. V. S. Lalotra), Principal of Mayo College
Major General Aneet Sahota
Major General Jayant Varma
Major General Ardamanjit Singh Sandhu
Major General Virpal Singh
Major General Darshanjit Singh Grewal
Major General Ranbir Singh (known as Ranny)
Major General Mandeep Singh
Rear Admiral S. S. Jamwal
Tejpreet Chopra, chief executive, GE India
Pankaj Munjal, Hero Motors
Jyotsna Suri (formerly Nanda), CMD of the Lalit Group
Kiran Nadar, philanthropist

Colonel V. P. Singh (polo player), Indian Polo Team
Colonel R. S. Brar, Indian Polo Team
Colonel R. S. Sodhi (known as Pickles), India Polo Team
Jai Shergill, Indian Polo Team
Major M. S. Sekhon (known as Musty), Indian Polo Team
Kismet Singh, television anchor
Papa CJ, stand-up comedian
Parikshit Sahani, actor
Tenzin Thuthob Tsarong, actor
Bunty Walia, filmmaker
Jimmy Shergill, actor
Karamveer Singh, IPS, DGP of UP
P. P. S Sidhu, IPS, SPL DGP CRPF
Harpreet Singh Sidhu, IPS
Harish Dhillon, headmaster and author
Praveen Vashisht, headmaster
Captain Amarjyot Singh
Himmat S. Dhillon

cleanup & copy editing

Despite recent improvements, this article still needs copyediting and cleanup for consistency. It's presented as a series of factoids which could just as easily be formated as bullets. A more consistent prose style will make the article more readable.--RadioFan (talk) 02:29, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do not agree with this apparently subjective opinion. The word "factoids" seems intended to be derogatory: are any of the facts ones which you suggest should not be included? To me it seems rather inconsistent to suggest that text could be "formated as bullets" while at the same time asking for a "consistent prose style". What is this consistent style you are after? I note that at the moment you are not contributing anything yourself. Moonraker (talk) 02:37, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NB, a clearer and more actionable explanation of your {{Cleanup}} and {{Copy edit}} tags is needed, RadioFan. I wish to remove them again but will wait for further input. Moonraker (talk) 02:58, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed them. I appreciate the explanation from RadioFan above but disagree with it. Yes, the article is somewhat skimpy in detail but bullet points are deprecated and the prose style seems pretty ok to me. - Sitush (talk) 16:38, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that bullets are the wrong choice here as well, my point was that the article is difficult to read and requires cleanup. A good article should leave the reader with an understanding of this school and some understanding of its history. It should be clear why a dedicated wikipedia article is necessary here. Disjointed bits of information (factoids) dont provide that. --RadioFan (talk) 10:26, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Like Sitush, I do not agree with your comments about "cleanup", RadioFan, but we can agree that the article needs expansion and improvement. As it had to be begun again a few days ago almost from scratch, it is a little early to be looking for a good article. As to why a dedicated wikipedia article is necessary here, the school plainly meets the notability criteria for schools. Moonraker (talk) 19:34, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Oldest???

Even a cursory look through the rest of wikipedia indicates that a boarding school founded in 1847 has no claim to being "oldest in the world". Can we get some AI editors on this garbage since the humans are clearly doing nothing? 194.230.146.54 (talk) 14:16, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For a long time, the article said "oldest private boarding school in Himachal Pradesh". Then on 15 December 2022, User:2405:201:400b:ab1a:58a:4ead:4bb1:bc46 changed it to "oldest Co-Ed boarding school in Asia", followed a day later by User:111.223.26.182 changing it to "oldest Co-Ed boarding school in the world". Then on 6 April 2023‎, User:2405:201:800b:6079:68c7:99ae:6756:8d0a changed it to "oldest private boarding school in the world". I'm going to return it to the original statement, prior to the series of changes that gave obvious nonsense. DMacks (talk) 15:14, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]