Talk:Land Back

Contemporary actions

I started a section that covers art, music and crafts about Land Back. Art to Tech (talk) 07:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Drawing the frame around the subject

This article needs to confine itself to Land Back, not the history that led up to it. Sources need to specifically mention Land Back, so as to demonstrate notability of the subject. -Lopifalko (talk) 07:48, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

I suggest stripping back this article to only Land Back info so as to clearly define the topic, otherwise it may not survive the review process. In a quick scan of the sources I think I found only one of the independent reliable sources that mentioned Land Back (as capitalised). -Lopifalko (talk) 08:18, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Lopifalko I will follow up. Art to Tech (talk) 23:35, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Is there perhaps the "land back" concept, and the "Land Back" organisation? I presumed the latter, but the text and the sources appear to speak to both. -Lopifalko (talk) 07:31, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

yes there is a land back concept. the Grist article was quite helpful there. Art to Tech (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 07:47, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

This article will need to clearly explain this, and perhaps it will be relevant to split into 2 articles — currently the article title relates to the organisation, as per the capitalisation I moved it to. Hopefully I will get time to read the Grist article; I haven't read any of the sources yet, merely skimmed them for their use of "land back". I so far suspect it may be more appropriate to revert back to a title of "Land back", to frame it around the concept and not the organisation, mentioning the organisation within that context. -Lopifalko (talk) 08:11, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree this entry is about the movement; here are additional links that I will use for clarifying the article (saving them here):

https://www.kotatv.com/2021/01/14/landback-movement-makes-progress-in-the-black-hills-with-camp-mni-luzahan/

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/get-involved-landback-movement

https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/ndn-collective-s-nick-tilsen-mount-rushmore-protest-organizer-charged-with-two-felonies

https://ndncollective.org/ndn-collective-landback-campaign-launching-on-indigenous-peoples-day-2020/

Art to Tech (talk) 07:34, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

bad/unavailable sources

this isn't criticism of the content of the article, merely the way it was written; many of the sources are not available to the general public and need to either be replaced with something public or archived in a way that the public can view them. for example: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-land-back-is-more-than-a-slogan-for-a-resurgent-indigenous-movement/ is not available without a subscription to The Globe and Mail. Asaturn (talk) 17:18, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Not just USA and Canada, not by far-- thoughts on changing this to the Americas in general? :)

"Land Back (or #LandBack) is a campaign by Indigenous people in the United States and in Canada " is what the page currently says. However, plenty of border tribes exist on both sides of the USA-Mexico border, which can be considered USA tribes but they are as much Mexican tribes as they are USA ones. Furthermore, the beginning of the fight to reclaim land, identity, culture, etc etc (land) amongst Amerindian people can really only be attributed to the Taino and Lucayan tribes of the Caribbean when they revolted against the Navidad settlement Columbus established. It feels so wrong to rob them of that recognition, they were the first and hardest hit, and most decimated. Even the source cited (reference #3) says "it all started in 1492.. the 500 years-and-counting struggle" but no tribe in USA or Canada was ever contacted by Columbus, and no tribe in USA or Canada was contacted until years after the 1492 contact Columbus had in the Carribean with the Taino. For years after 1492 no Europeans really went anywhere but Central America, so how could Land Back have started in 1492 if Land Back is a movement only by USA and Canadian tribes who did not fight for the return of land until later? Most land back activists acknowledge that it is a movement across "the americas", north and south (i.e the INDIGENOUS source https://landback.org/). Movements demanding land back have existed across the americas for centuries, one example is Tierra y Libertad by the ELZN which demands land and sovereignty (liberty to self-govern) back. If the argument is the need to use the english term "Land Back", many Indigenous refugees from South America and southern North America do use that term if they when forced into USA and Canada, and many who still live in Latin America who speak english use it as well, and fight for it. I do not support any disenfranchisement of southern relatives. I'm sure whoever wrote that did so unintentionally. IMO, this article should be amended to utilize credible Indigenous sources like NDN Collective instead of USA media agents like CNN, and I think we should recognize the land reclamation, land back efforts and work of all Indigenous people of this American landmass regardless of if they come from the Global North or the Global South. Nativebun (talk) 04:23, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

By the way, I am autistic and I am sorry if i come off as blunt or even rude. Not my intention at all. Hope to have a productive conversation about this :) Nativebun (talk) 04:24, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

I like your suggestion. I have been disappointed with the tone of the article that makes it sound like it is just a hashtag or meme. The article should be more representative of the serious nature while acknowledging the use of social media and art. Some thought needs to be given to organization; should it be chronological or regional? A better summary of why this movement even exists is also needed. The lead should be completely rewritten and the title should be discussed. The discussion above was over a year and half ago and the article was supposed to be about the movement and not the organization. Cheers, Fettlemap (talk) 06:19, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello Nativebun I think it would be great if you expanded this article to address "Land Back" in Mexican contexts. I have been meaning to work on a background section for this article that would place the movement in a broader Decolonisation framework. (here is one source that says landback is "part of the larger decolonisation movement", for example.) I think this would help address some of your concerns.

#Landback is definitely being used in Mexico, so that should certainly be included here. It gets a little fuzzier as soon as you get to Guatemala: these people are asking for their land back, but is this "#landback"? or is it decolonisation? What about South Africa?

It seems to me that this article should be strictly scoped to include the #landback context as a contemporary resurgence in mainstream awareness of ongoing decolonisation struggles as achieved through social media, art, and environmental conflict. That would probably limit the scope to North America at this time, but a good background section would cover the 500 years of decolonisation struggles that make this part of a global movement. (Side note: additional work is needed at decolonisation to include contemporary struggles. Please help.)

Final note: Nativebun, while it is intuitive that articles about Indigenous movements should use Indigenous sources, when you say IMO, this article should be amended to utilize credible Indigenous sources like NDN Collective instead of USA media agents like CNN, I'd like to warn you that you're going to have problems with other editors if you take this line. NDN is going to be perceived as an advocacy organisation and a primary source. There is plenty of high-quality peer-reviewed critical scholarship (much of it written by Indigenous scholars) whose work will be much more easily incorporated into Wikipedia, and a lot of what needs to be said exists in mainstream journalism if you look for it. So while I appreciate your sentiment here, I highly recommend using the peer-reviewed critical scholarship where possible. NDN Collective and similar orgs can be used carefully, but it just won't work if you rely on them too much. Larataguera (talk) 11:57, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

I just did some of this, including addition of two of the sources I had linked above. Hopefully it's a little better now. Thoughts welcome. Larataguera (talk) 15:54, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Transfers section

I don't see the relevance of this unless a linkage can be shown between the specific Land Back movement and the transfer. Eldomtom2 (talk) 16:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The article content is about the decentralized movement to reestablish Indigenous sovereignty, with political and economic control of their ancestral lands. It is not about a specific organization only. 〜 Adflatuss • talk 17:10, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I didn't say it was. I did say that the section is not relevant unless a linkage can be shown between the Land Back movement and the transfer.--Eldomtom2 (talk) 14:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)--Eldomtom2 (talk) 14:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Great, all the items in the Transfer section are part of the decentralized movement to reestablish Indigenous sovereignty, with political and economic control of their ancestral lands. Cheers, 〜 Adflatuss • talk 23:42, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

And your citation for that is?--Eldomtom2 (talk) 14:43, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

You suggested deleting entries "unless a linkage can be shown between the specific Land Back movement and the transfer". Editors need to know the criterion that you are suggesting to narrow the scope of the article to "the specific Land Back movement" which is currently defined in the article as "decentralized movement to reestablish Indigenous sovereignty, with political and economic control of their ancestral lands". Examples from the article would help. 〜 Adflatuss • talk 15:15, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I feel it is self-evident that not everything associated with "reestablishing Indigenous sovereignty" is also associated with "Land Back".--Eldomtom2 (talk) 15:24, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Reordering some text

“Land Back does not mean that non-Indigenous people should be made to leave unceded Indigenous lands.”

While this is appropriate for the philosophy section, would it be prudent to move it up to the summary paragraph? There seems to be a lot of misinformation around this concept, and placing it in the philosophy section— even as a separate sentence— might lead to it getting buried in the middle of the larger article. It being part of the summary may also help to pique further interest and recontextualizes the rest of the article for those that do. 2600:1700:2A80:8110:154E:E30F:35E7:1C44 (talk) 01:28, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

The lead is a summary so the sentence does not need to be moved if it is also appropriate in the lead. The same or similar words can be added to the lead. Cheers, 〜 Adflatuss • talk 01:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Blood Tribe or Kainai Nation?

Does anyone know what term the group typically prefers? This article uses Blood Tribe, but the linked article refers to “Kainai Nation”. Slaymaker1907 (talk) 00:58, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Global Poverty and Practice

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alexdsferrer (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Alexdsferrer (talk) 21:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)