Talk:Kmart/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

17 stores confirmed

NYT confirms there are 17 "open" stores left. Hope everyone is happy now.

173.241.182.119 (talk) 03:05, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

References

I accept the NYT as a reliable source that there are are 17 stores open as of August 17, 2021, so I have removed the incorrect information sourced to the Sears site. There is no point listing which states have stores when the information is known to be incorrect. And by the way, the IP incorrectly claimed that Sears site listed 20 stores (on August 18) when it actually lists 22. Meters (talk) 03:42, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

I believe I am the one that sourced the Sears site, because (to my Knowledge, unless I missed something), I saw 20 listed there. Either they changed it since I saw it, or I just mistakenly misread it. Both are possible. So if you are seeing 22, then their website is off by 5 stores, for some reason. In any case, 17 is the correct number (which matches my own personal original research that I won't post in the article). Maybe if the Sears site, some DAY is updated down to 17, then at that point, it can be cited to list which states/territories have stores. I have been contacting news agencies for quite a while, trying to get the counts published, and I finally got one to verify and do it. Glad to put that issue to bed (for now anyway, until further closings will invariably happen at some point).

173.241.182.119 (talk) 05:01, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

OK, I counted the Sears website and there are now 22 listed. I wrote a lot more than that. Do not go and delete other people's comments on this Talk page, as that's against the rules. 173.241.182.119 (talk) 06:49, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

173.241.182.119 (talk) 05:32, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

(ec)Of course you were the one that added it, mere hours ago [1]. You used a bare URL with no access date, a useless "currently" in the text, and you likely assumed that there were 20 stores because that's what the earlier edits were claiming. With a dynamic reference such as that you need to actually read the source and verify the number every time you use it, and specify when you accessed it. Without knowing exactly when the refence was used the data is useless to the article, and without proper verification it may be wrong, as it was this time. The source very clearly lists 22 stores.

Please be more careful, and please don't use bare URLs as references. Meters (talk) 05:37, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I added it. You just wrote an "IP" added it, instead of mentioning my specific IP, so I was just stating that fact. I don't Know what bare URL means. And I don't Know what you are referring to by access Date. I am not an experienced wiki editor, so I am Learning this stuff as I go along. I counted the kmart website when I first posted it, but you are correct that I did not count it EVERY TIME. Again, maybe I miscounted it, or maybe they changed it. It is not the easiest thing to count EVERY TIME, because it does not give a total count. One needs to open each state one by one and keep a running total of the combined states/territories, which is a bit cumbersome, at least, unless you Know of some way to more easily get the total counts on there, that I'm not aware of. If so, do share that. There was nothing useless about "currently" in the text. And why did you delete my text from this Talk page? You yourself wrote that one user cannot edit another user's text on an article's Talk page. You misspelled the word reference as "refence" above. If I edited that, you would jump all over for me wouldn't you? You also, in the above Talk page, wrongly assumed (through OR?) that the entire company was liquidating. I don't see that redacted. So why is my stuff getting removed from this Talk page? We can use OR in the Talk pages, just not in the main article. Again, these are the practice courts of Wimbledon. The rules of center court don't apply on the practice courts. You used OR when you claimed that the entire chain was liquidating. Would you like me to go redact that? It was written several Months ago, above. Leave my Talk stuff alone, and I'll leave yours along. I'm of course just referring to this Talk page, not the main article.173.241.182.119 (talk) 06:52, 19 August 2021 (UTC) 173.241.182.119 (talk) 06:45, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

A "bare url" is a reference that is just a URL, with no other information. When you're adding a reference, there should be a field for 'URL Access Date" which is the date on which you pulled up the website. That information helps us know when the information was added, which makes it easier to check in the future. Also, the use of 'currently' isn't useless, but is incorrect for Wikipedia editing style. The problem is that what's current changes; so when you said "currently" meaning August 2021, in a year "current" will mean August 2022, meaning the information attached will be incorrect. So it'd be better to list it as "As of August 2021, Kmart maintains a presence in...", rather than "Currently Kmart maintains a presence in...".

Kmart's store count is a tricky thing, with the website often not updating in relation to recent store closures. My best guess for the best course of action would be to list it as something to the effect of "As of August 2021, Kmart's website indicates x number of locations, however this number includes locations a and b, which have since closed", with a reference to Kmart's website, and individual news articles about the closure of the other stores. However, I'd like to hear the input of another editor or two on this. Pokemonprime (talk) 10:30, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

I want to do exactly what you mentioned ^ above, but a certain "mall cop" around here will delete it as soon as I do that.  You wrote "As of August 2021, Kmart's website indicates x number of locations, however this number includes locations a and b, which have since closed", with a reference to Kmart's website, and individual news articles about the closure of the other stores.".   I want to do EXACTLY that, but Good Luck convincing you-Know-who about that.
(talk) 22:20, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

IP, I removed the comments from this page as WP:OR, as I stated in my edit summary. It is a WP:NOTAFORUM violation to include your original research on this page when you know it cannot go in the article. Despite what you believe, this page is not a place for general discussion of the topic. It is to discuss changes to the article. Your statement I can write anything I want on THE TALK page, because it is just that.....A TALK PAGE!!!!! It is a place for us Kmart employees, or ex-employees, or even fans and shoppers to TALK about Kmart. is completely wrong. Meters (talk) 18:21, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

It is not wrong at all. This is the practice page. Sort of practice court that you practice on before going out on Wimbledon center court. Anything goes on the practice courts, no rules apply. And since you did what you did, I'm going to go ahead and remove YOUR "OR" from this page. I want to hear your reaction to that, LOL! Again, this is an open page for ex Kmart employees to "shoot the shoot" and exchange gossip about Kmart. Now here we go....... 173.241.182.119 (talk) 22:20, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

If Kmart's website is routinely incorrect, the solution is not to use it anyway and try to correct it with OR, the solution is to not use it at all. The NY times cite we have is sufficient, also, Mr IP, that is flatly incorrect. If you insist on disrupting the talk page with irrelevancies I think it is likely that your IP will end up blocked and/or the page protected from editing by IPs. - MrOllie (talk) 22:54, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Not incorrect at all. This is the page where old Time Kmart fans reminisce and chit-chat about old Kmart happenings over some Beers. Very low key, low pressure place with no rules where we discuss our old Kmart experiences. Like the practice courts of the US Open where we work on trick shots and stuff that we would never do on center court during a real match, or that we would never post in the main article. We just Drink & chit chat here about OLD TIMES related to Kmart. 173.241.182.119 (talk) 23:13, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

And while I was reading and replying the IP got blocked. MrOllie (talk) 22:56, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Ya, and wrongly so. Now I'm back to chit chat about Kmart musings over Beer. 173.241.182.119 (talk) 23:13, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

(ec)IP has been blocked for one week. After comments such as [2] I don't know that we've seen the end of the disruption.

I've manually archived older threads since the talk page was huge and the auto archive had been disabled for some reason. I've also enabled archive searching. No idea why we wouldn't want to be able to search the archive. Meters (talk) 22:59, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

The whole Kmart page is a little bit of a mess. I've occasionally considered doing a top-down rewrite, since I feel like there's a GA in there somewhere.... Pokemonprime (talk)

OK, I'm back from that ban so I'm going to get some shit straight. If someone is going to remove shit that I write on this TALK PAGE (not the main article) as OR, then he (or she) can also expect that I will delete his OR (and also correct his many typos) from this page. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Meters wrote that the whole chain is in liquidation. FALSE!!!! How did he Know that? Where is the link? Then when I called him out, he replied that since this is the Talk page, he can write that. OK!!! Then so can I! The 22 Kmarts listed on their site is wrong because there are 2 in FL, 2 in CA, and 1 in NY, which have closed, bringing us down to the correct 17 listed in the NYT article. OK, we're done for now. 23:13, 27 August 2021 (UTC)173.241.182.119 (talk)

The IP has added the "footprint" sourced to the KMart store locator (actually an undated bare URL, but still listing 22 stores as of today). I have removed it. The KMart store locator is not a reliable source since we know it is not up to date. Even the IP agrees that this site is not accurate. There are apparently five stores listed that have closed. We cannot combine this inaccurate source with the IP's WP:OR to claim where the remaining stores are. Meters (talk) 09:24, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree that the COUNTS are not accurate. The footprint is accurate (because under what scenario would it not be?). The site lists 22 stores across the jurisdictions I mentioned. There are only 17, but still, they exist in those jurisdictions I mentioned. Their site is inaccurate for counts, but still can be relied upon to show the overall shrinking footprint. 173.241.182.119 (talk) 15:30, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Meters. We can't split hairs like that. It's not accurate, so we shouldn't use it. We don't have a deadline and Wikipedia isn't supposed to be a source for up to the minute news, so we can wait until it is covered by an actual reliable source. - MrOllie (talk) 15:35, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

IP, the site cannot be used to show which states or countries have stores. Since it is not accurate, we don't know which of the still listed stores is no longer open (without resorting to WP:OR or WP:SYNTH). There are five incorrect store locations listed. No state or country has more than five listed stores, so any one of them could actually have no stores left. For example, all five stores in New York (the only location with five listed stores) could be closed. There are four places with only one store listed (Guam, Puerto Rico, Michigan, and Montana), so possibly none of those four have any stores left. So, basing the "footprint" on that source may be correct, or it may list one, two, three, or even four states or countries as having stores when they do not. Without a reliable source that explicitly lists which states and countries still have open stores we cannot make this claim. Meters (talk) 18:08, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

And IP blocked again. I have no objection to anyone including a simple statement about where the remaining stores are if it can be reliably sourced, but I don't see any use in the previous attempts to add a detailed table, or make a big deal of the "footprint" and how small it is now and how far apart the remaining stores are. "There are X remaining stores.[src] There are stores in these states and countries.[src]" Done. Meters (talk) 19:26, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

And I've removed another unsourced attempt to make claims about how many states still have KMarts. Source it or don't add it. Otherwise this is WP:OR or WP:SYNTH. Meters (talk) 01:44, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

"And I'm back."

More WP:OR/WP:SYNTHESIS from the same IP.

Also, I THINK YOU HAVE ME MIXED UP WITH SOMEONE WHO JUST TRIED EDITING THE MAIN ARTICLE (which you reverted). That was NOT me. I am here discussing a totally different issue, completely unrelated to "states". Take 10 Minutes to read what i wrote on this Talk page before just deleting it for no reason! 173.241.182.119 (talk) 05:30, 13 October 2021 (UTC) My comment in the above thread had nothing to do with you. I was explaining why I had removed content added to the article by user:DJV11181988 . I should removed your talk page content in a separate edit to make that clear. Sorry. Your content that I removed from this talk page was removed because of the personal attack and the WP:NOTAFORUM violation. Once again, the talk page is to discuss the article, not for you to list your original research and synthesis, or to just write about the subject in general. You say that you are not going to edit the article, and you don't seem to be suggesting changes: For the record, (not that I'm going to bother editing the article on this, as I have far better things to do with my Time, than help people who don't appreciate it, for free), But I'll just give it a quick mention here. and as I mentioned, you can all have at it. I did what I could here. Have fun. There are plenty of pages I can edit where my free work is appreciated. This page is not a general forum about KMart. Meters (talk) 07:18, 13 October 2021 (UTC) It actually is a general forum about Kmart, but in this case, my points WERE about the article. Was there a single thing I posted that was false? And I made no personal attacks whatsoever. I wrote something like "I hope the person who did it is happy" or something like that. That's not a personal attack. My posts WERE TO SHOW AND SOURCE THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO IDENTIFY EXACTLY WHICH 5 STORES ARE OVERSTATED ON THE KMART.COM WEBSITE. How did you not understand that from my long post which took me over 30 Minutes to write? I meticulously sourced and added all that research and you just deleted it like that? There was NO reason to do that. I attacked nobody. I discussed STORE COUNTS (oh the horror!). And we all Know that I was suspended because of someone reporting me. I think you Know that already. That is not a personal attack. That's my stating a fact. I spent a lot of Time carefully sourcing several closings that have occurred, and others that are under way. Also, it's me, (yes ME!!!!) who found that excellent NYT article which basically bailed all y'all, out, by showing the store counts, a few Months back. Instead of a modicum of gratitude, all people do here is take that for granted and complain. If I saw another editor do that type of work, I would thank them. And you allowed someone to use this source in the main article , without even mentioning that this author cites his OWN source as someone named "List Man Jack". Read that source I just linked! My long post, in any case, was to identify exactly which 17 Kmarts were still operating, and among those 17, which 3 were closing. And I had that all 100% sourced here, and you just removed it. SMH, that should not be allowed. 173.241.182.119 (talk) 07:32, 13 October 2021 (UTC) One more point I forgot to make. You claimed I was not suggesting edits. I ACTUALLY AM. Maybe I should have been more specific, but I thought y'all could infer that from what I wrote. I provided (what I believe to be) sufficient sources to show exactly which stores should be removed from the Kmart website (the 22 vs 17 discrepancy) which would make it easy to pinpoint the exact footprint of this company, which is what I was discussing 1 Month ago before I was suspended. I even provided additional sources to show which additional 3 closures will be happening. I stated that I PERSONALLY didn't want to do that edit, but others are welcome to if they want. Why do I not want to do the edit? Because I'm tired of my free work being spit upon. So I'll leave it to others to take the abuse. I just posted my suggested edits here on the Talk page. If people want to act on it, so be it. You still should NOT have deleted it though. I made several extremely legitimately sourced points in there. Read what you deleted? I used about 8 sources at least, if I remember correctly. I can't remember anyone else bothering to use 8 sources on a Talk page (which is essentially just a practice page). 173.241.182.119 (talk) 08:05, 13 October 2021 (UTC) (ec)Yes you did make a personal attack. And then you restored it. You have been blocked for personal attacks before. You have been told multiple times that this page is not a general forum. You are just back from a one-month block and your first edit is to make a personal attack, continue using talk pages as forums, and continue the battleground behaviour that got you blocked from article space by user:Ohnoitsjamie and from your own talk page by user:Daniel Case. So, are you suggesting changes to the article in spite of what you said the first time around? If not, please don't post this material here. We have been over this before. If you have reliable sources then provide them and say what you want to change. If all you have is WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS then, once again, we cannot use it. We have a reliable source that gives us a store count as of certain date, and we use it. We have reliable sources that say that certain stores have closed (or will close) and we use them. The KMart store locater has repeatedly proven to be inaccurate so we cannot consider it a reliable source as to which stores are still open, or how many stores remain open in each state. As for the hudsonvalleypost.com source, do you have some reason to think it is not a reliable source? If it's not reliable then pull it. It looks like a local online news source to me. It's not someone's personal webpage. Meters (talk) 08:25, 13 October 2021 (UTC) Ah, so now you are suggesting changes. When you write things such as you did, it certainly appears that you are not suggesting changes. I suggest that you explicitly tell us what you want to change, and provide a reliable source that supports the change, with no WP:OR or WP:SYNTHESIS required. Meters (talk) 08:28, 13 October 2021 (UTC) You keep mentioning personal attacks. What specific attack? If you're going to accuse someone of something, let me Know exactly what that personal attack was. I can't see it because you deleted it and I don't remember exactly what I wrote. (Redacted) Is THAT what you call a personal attack, LOL? If so, we have a very different definition of a personal attack, because that ain't one. I'm from NY, and that wouldn't even be considered a low-level kindergarten insult. In a previous post (long ago) you accused me of having an infatuation with Kmart. I could call that a personal attack, but I'm not sensitive like that. Or if that wasn't it, be an adult and let me see exactly what you consider my personal attack. Post it word for word. Also, who left you to be the final arbiter of what is or isn't a personal attack? Who gave you the right to delete someone's Talk posts? You are not an administrator and neither am I so are privileges here are equal, buddy. Yes those 2 people you mentioned blocked me, because someone gave them the authority to do it. Doesn't mean it was appropriate, necessarily. As the old adage goes, if a cop Says I went through a stop sign, & I Say I didn't, 99 Times out of 100, the judge will believe the cop. That is the privilege of authority. Back on topic here, it should be more than obvious what changes I was freaking suggesting. I'll tackle the small issue first. That Hudson news thing mentions a source of "List Man Jack"? I was trying to gather opinions on if that (List man Jack) was a reliable source. I Know that Hudson whatever is a local paper, not a personal web page. My question is, THE SOURCE that the author used, (List Man Jack), is THAT a reliable source? OK, you want to Know what I want to change and for me to provide sources. That's interesting. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I FREAKING DID IN MY FIRST POST SINCE I CAME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you deleted like 99% of it. I put in all that work, cited about 10 sources on a TALK PAGE, and went step by step to show exactly which 17 stores exist (through sources, mind you). That would allow us to publish the exact footprint of those 17 stores with zero doubt. But then for some reason, you just up and deleted all that work, and I'm not going through the effort of doing all that again. but if you bothered reading through all of it, there was no OR in there. I sourced to the "T" every single discrepancy between the 22 stores on kmart's site and the actual 17 operating stores so we could list the exact footprint of Kmart without any OR. But you just deleted that and you should NOT be allowed to delete someone's hard effort. Honestly, THAT is what the administrators should be looking at, instead of an extremely minor, humorous comment about someone being happy in a basement, for crying out loud. I really don't Know what else to Tell you. My post Spoke for itself. Also why are some of my comments separated into a box like that? I don't Know how to prevent that. 173.241.182.119 (talk) 00:41, 14 October 2021 (UTC) I'm done spending time responding to this user. If someone else wants to try and help, have at it. If any improperly sourced material, WP:OR or WP:SYNTHESIS goes in I will simply remove it. After a certain point WP:IDHT becomes a WP:CIR issue. Meters (talk) 21:18, 14 October 2021 (UTC) References

IP blocked six-months this time. I'd be happy to look at any suggestions for reliable sources that allow us to update the current number of stores and their locations without requiring WP:OR or WP:SYNTHESIS. 05:31, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

And now extended twice to 12 months. Other users have found usable sources that have allowed us to update the number of remaining stores (10) as of January 2022. Meters (talk) 23:08, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Ya, still here. 162.213.23.13 (talk) 10:43, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

What's the consensus on this?

Due to the significance of Kmart Australia, should Kmart be referred to as something along the lines of "Kmart (United States of America)" instead? Let's come to a conclusion here...

KmartConsensus

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Marksgoose (talk • contribs) 13:51, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

The US Kmart is the primary topic, by a large margin. MrOllie (talk) 14:12, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

I agree with MrOllie, I think Kmart Australia can be broken out and the US stores can just be referred to as "Kmart" AlchemistsFire (talk) 23:57, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Also agree; Kmart for original US company is still most well-known usage, even as Kmart US sails into the sunset. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 00:14, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

"Blue Friday" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Blue Friday and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 21#Blue Friday until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  cjquines  (talk) 02:01, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2022

Please update as it is an important milestone. Edit information as needed. Quoted text not for publishing but to verify source of information. "Three" "It's slowly fading away like Blockbuster and Sears before it. A weathered Kmart sign is displayed above the store in Avenel, N.J., on Monday, April 4, 2022. When the store closes its doors on April 16, it will leave only three remaining U.S. locations for the former retail powerhouse.6 hours ago https://www.deseret.com › u-s-world After Saturday, there will be only 3 Kmart stores left in the U.S." 73.217.139.229 (talk) 04:37, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: It's not April 17 yet. Meters (talk) 07:18, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

It's April 17 now. Are you able to do it? 2601:18F:603:EE00:9187:5D65:C3C1:2EEA (talk) 16:33, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Why don't you try reading the article? It was added yesterday. Meters (talk) 20:33, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

It wasn’t there when I replied to you, that’s for sure. 2601:18F:603:EE00:574:2B7F:1083:D8D (talk) 16:04, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Look at the history. It was added by user:Beyond My Ken on April 16. Meters (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't even notice that. My bad! 2601:18F:603:EE00:54DC:437A:2A13:CCC3 (talk) 22:22, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Caption for infobox image

I've removed the "and is now Harbor Freight Tools, Hobby Lobby, and Planet Fitness" from the caption "A Kmart store in Goldsboro, North Carolina (Store #7046) in August 2012. This location closed in March 2017, and is now Harbor Freight Tools, Hobby Lobby, and Planet Fitness." for the infobox image. This is unsourced, and even if it were sourced it is trivia that is not needed. Meters (talk) 18:11, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Kmart Closure in Puerto Rico

It was just recently confirmed that the last remaining Kmart store in Puerto Rico has closed for good: https://www.elnuevodia.com/negocios/empresas-comercios/notas/kmart-de-plaza-las-americas-cierra-sus-puertas/

There was no liquidation sale held. The closure was very sudden and there was basically no notice in advance.

With that being said, we should probably update the article to reflect this. 2601:18F:600:6E30:DD79:C0C9:3BD7:E962 (talk) 23:33, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

This article should not list store by store closings - it has done so in the past and that lead to a bloated, unreadable article. We should not reopen the floodgates. MrOllie (talk) 23:39, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

That's not what I'm suggesting. All I'm recommending is that the "Number of locations" statistic in the sidebar should be updated to reflect the most recent closure (along with the third to last sentence in the first paragraph of the article).

Does that sound good? 2601:18F:600:6E30:9DDF:8E8A:61B1:BC1F (talk) 23:46, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. We shouldn't combine sources to track our own figure (WP:SYN). Someone will write an article that gives a revised figure sooner or later. We can wait, there is no deadline. - MrOllie (talk) MrOllie (talk) 23:49, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

And the cited source does not say that the store is closed. It says it "will close its doors this October", that some employees had posted on social media that they had worked their last day, but that "Empresas Fonalledas, for its part, did not specify if today [October 15] was the last day of service for the store. So, without more sources all we can say that it will be closed by the end of the month. Meters (talk) 19:53, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

It’s November now, so we generally know for sure that it’s closed, right? 2601:18F:600:6E30:6901:3FE3:941:88EC (talk) 03:19, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

We'll know when an updated source is published. MrOllie (talk) 03:37, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Don't you mean "was"

This uses "is" for kmarts status! The company folded 75.76.41.231 (talk) 00:34, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

The company still operates stores, though nowhere near what they were. - Aoidh (talk) 01:09, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

The New York Times is not updating their article to reflect the fact that there are only twelve stores open now.

Not to mention that it's paywalled, which is even worse.

Can we please use a different (and much more up-to-date) source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:194:C000:1430:A1BC:79FE:B5A1:B4C1 (talk) 12:24, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

That source is used to cite the number of stores as of August 31, 2021, which is the most recent reliable source we have in the article. If you know of a more recent reliable source then please list it. Meters (talk) 16:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

We now have a source showing 10 stores as of January 2022. Meters (talk) 23:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Right. Which I provided, so y'all should be eternally grateful for my doing so. Furthermore, that link only existed because I practically implored my friend at that local media station to write that article so I could edit Wiki. Again, you're welcome. Remember, I DID THIS. Don't ever forget who did this. I DID! You are (one again) welcome. Show some gratitude. 162.213.23.13 (talk) 10:46, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

No, we're not grateful, because you deceptively subverted the sourcing process by getting your friend to publish your POV in a semi-reliable source. MrOllie (talk) 16:01, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

IP has been blocked form this page, and sock account has been indef'ed.Meters (talk) 06:24, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

::How do you define semi-reliable? 104.192.24.154 (talk) 07:19, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Many also have a garden center, a Jackson Hewitt tax center, a pharmacy, and a K-Cafe or a deli serving Nathan's Hot Dogs and pizza.

Is this even true anymore? There are like... less than 20 Kmarts left in the US, right? Do any of them still have functioning K-Cafes or pharmacies anymore? George Mucus (talk) 06:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC) 20? There are 3 in the US and another 5 in territories. 2 of the USVI locations and the Guam store have pharmacies, none others do. I don't believe any outside of Guam have cafes.74.80.182.98 (talk) 07:22, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

I'd wager that the article could be changed to reflect this. If there are no objects then I'll change it. George Mucus (talk) 00:00, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

It is reported that a store in the Virgin Islands is in the process closing in June 2023

The news website "The Virgin Islands Consortium" reported on June 8 that one of the two stores in St. Croix is in the process of closing (see included pictures). The website also mentions that store is also listed on the store liquidation website of SB360 Capital Partners. Do we have enough information to say in the WP article that one of the four Kmarts in the Virgin Islands is in the process of closing, especially with the "Store Closing" sign being shown prominently in the article? 108.71.214.235 (talk) 05:40, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Why bother mentioning that a store is closing until it has actually closed? For that matter, as user:MrOllie wrote This article should not list store by store closings - it has done so in the past and that lead to a bloated, unreadable article. This store-by-store death march does not need to be documented. Meters (talk) 05:50, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I guess you are right since this is just the ~500th (or so) closing since January 2019 when the then creditors of Sears Holding were trying to convince Bankruptcy Court judge that it was better to liquidate the entire company instead of allowing Edward Lampert to acquire the most profitable stores so he can squeeze the remaining assets out of the remaining properties at the expense of suppliers, employees and customers with this "slow motion liquidation" could potential continue on for a number of additional years. As for the the individual closings, just the same pattern with only the name of the location and date being changed. As for article bloat, does the reader need to know that the Levittown, New York, location was replaced by Home Depot or the Cambridge, Ohio, location was replaced by Rural King? There is a lot of bloat in the article about former locations that could be trimmed since who cares that a certain former location is now U Haul rental agency instead of a hazardous waste dump or a 5-story apartment complex with a major supermarket chain. Very few readers would care about all of that trivia. 108.71.214.235 (talk) 07:51, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't argue against trimming the article, particularly the trivia about what has replaced various former stores (mostly unsourced at that). Meters (talk) 08:14, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

:::I agree. There were over 2000 Kmarts, and virtually all of them have closed. Whatever trivial amount of remaining stores there are, represent maybe .01% of their peak. Put differently, about 99.99% of them have closed. We don't need or care what happened to over 2000 buildings that USED TO house Kmarts. Virtually any store (of any brand) that closed, the building would be used for something else. Who cares? 104.192.24.154 (talk) 01:17, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

== Latest edit ==

The latest edit to the article (about PR store closing) appears unsourced, but I am unable to reverse it because of the status of this page. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 00:24, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Last Kmart in Puerto Rico closed

Is there any source for the last Kmart in Puerto Rico finally being closed because I found a source about it in elnuevodia.com

I tired using that, but it kept being reverted. RobloxMiner$$ (talk) 03:34, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

As explained in the talk sections above, elnuevodia covered an announcement but never ran a second story to confirm that the store closed as expected. MrOllie (talk) 03:57, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Can we at least remove Puerto Rico from the areas served w iron since Kmart is no longer in Puerto Rico, and change the number of locations to 8? RobloxMiner$$ (talk) 17:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

No. We need a source that says '8' to change the article. MrOllie (talk) 17:59, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Without Puerto Rico, it wouldn’t make sense to just leave it as 9 locations. Maybe we’ll wait until the next time Kmart announces how many stores are left (including US territories). RobloxMiner$$ (talk) 23:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

There is no deadline. We can wait until updated reliable sourcing appears, especially since the alternative is forbidden on Wikipedia per WP:NOR. MrOllie (talk) 23:58, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

That's fine, we can wait. Just Saying, y'all might be waiting a long Time. The reason such sources (that a store actually physically closed) are so hard to find, is simply for the fact that many sources will report that a store is starting the liquidation process, in other words they will report that the store is closING. But none (that I'm aware of), or almost none will ever report that a store has finally closed. I have yet to see one in my life, but I could be wrong. It is just not an interesting enough news story, for most media outlets to announce when the actual liquidation ends, as opposed to when it begins. So there might never be an article stating that the Puerto Rican store, for example, has officially closed (although it actually did close last Year). Just some insight. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 22:18, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Sooner or later they'll be down to 1 (or zero) stores, which will trigger a new round of coverage. MrOllie (talk) 22:42, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Don't think it will ever reach 1 or zero in our LIFETIMES anyway, due to the simple fact that the 3 in USVI, and 1 in Guam (unlike the mainland stores) are very Profitable. Old source, but still is true: https://www.dontwasteyourmoney.com/guam-popular-kmart-world/

But, for the sake of argument, even if that happens, you'll likely get the announcement story, for when the stores are closING, but not when they are closED. So even if there is only 1 Kmart left, then they'll certainly be articles when that 1 starts closing, but unlikely will there be one to announce the decidedly unsexy story of the liquidator wrapping up on his last Day. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 22:52, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Not really. Such stories get written all the time, here is an example. MrOllie (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

OK, that's 1 rare example, so you got me there. However, (as far as I can find), in 95% of closings, such articles are usually NOT written upon the closing's completion. So I wouldn't state that they get written

"ALL THE TIME". But ya,one can always find an exception or unicorn. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 05:48, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

https://techskybeat.com/how-many-kmarts-are-left/ Mmartinezmdr (talk) 22:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

however, some say that there are "20 stores" Mmartinezmdr (talk) 22:53, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

That's why we don't use blogs or other selfpub sites. They're repeating a report that was already out of date when they wrote the blog. MrOllie (talk) 22:54, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

ahh. Will keep an eye on Sept 30. There should be articles as its the last NJ Kmart Mmartinezmdr (talk) 00:05, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Also, for the record, I'm yet to see a valid source for the closing Date being September 30. I saw a YT video with some guy mentioning that Date, but I have no idea what his source was, as I have found nothing in any valid source, pointing to that exact source, online. Please share a source if you have 1. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 05:50, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2023

It appears that information concerning Kmart locations outside of the continental United States is woefully outdated.

• Puerto Rico – Although the Kmart website still list 3 Puerto Rican locations, the last Kmart store in Puerto Rico closed in October 2022. The other stores on the island have been closed since 2021.

• Virgin Islands – Their 2023 Memorial Day sales ad still list 4 locations.

• Guam - Still open. (Just reopened after a recent cyclone had hit the island.)

What needs to be done? The Infobox needs to be updated by removing Puerto Rico from Area Served. The "2019–present: New management and further decline" section needs to be updated to show that Kmart has left Puerto Rico in October 2022. Use the El Nuevo Día citation for store closure.

References

23.25.58.41 (talk) 02:26, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

We've been waiting for updated sourcing to appear. We can't use social media posts, and elnuevodia published a story about a store being expected to close, but they never updated when it actually did. MrOllie (talk) 12:43, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@MrOllie: Would the store directory website for Plaza Las Américas be considered a reliable source? The mall has since removed Kmart from their current store directory, but the store was listed in archived versions taken before the supposed closing. The island of Puerto Rico might be small enough that a newspaper article about the actual door closing may not be consider important enough to be published since it might be obvious to most residents who can just drive/walk by the shopping center. If we cannot consider that Puerto Rico store is actual closed, should the actual store count in the Infobox be increased by one then? 50.231.49.42 (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

We should have a proper citation for any changes (a story directory doesn't work either) - that includes changes to the info box. MrOllie (talk) 17:39, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@MrOllie: How about a The Record (North Jersey) published newspaper article from December 2022 that mentions "Only eight Kmart locations remain, with three in the mainland United States, one in Guam and four in the Virgin Islands..."? Would that be useful for the wiki article? Puerto Rico definitely not mentioned. 50.231.49.42 (talk) 14:28, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

::::I don't see why that article wouldn't be a valid source. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 07:05, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I edited the page to reflect the fact that the San Juan, Puerto Rico, store closed in October 2022, leaving only 8 Kmarts still open (not 9). My change was reverted. Why? Ron Newman (talk) 13:32, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Read this thread and the previous thread that discussed this. As user:MrOllie said in his summary, your edit was undone for failure to provide a source. The source we use in the article says that there were 9 as of April 2022. You did not provide a new source to show that the Puerto Rico store actually closed.

As for the new source proposed by the IP, I would accept it as a reliable source assuming the quote is accurate, but it is paywalled and I can't access it, so it would have to be added by someone who can actually read the source. Meters (talk) 17:46, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

It's been more than two months and no-one has verified the IP's paywalled supposed source from Dec 2022. Meters (talk) 19:53, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

OK what about this source? According to this one, there are 7 stores currently. https://stthomassource.com/content/2023/06/07/one-kmart-on-st-croix-to-close-retail-consulting-firm-reports/ 104.192.24.154 (talk) 23:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

It lists 7 stores, but it does not explicitly state that that those are only stores. It says " Only a handful of Kmarts now remain, including two on St. Thomas, two on St. Croix, one in Guam, and two on the U.S. mainland." Meters (talk) 04:34, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

::OK, what about a video OF AN ACTUAL LEGIT USVI NEWSCAST? If you listen carefully at the end, the reporter mentions the count of remaining Kmarts. She mentions how many Kmarts are left, and where. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNZCGI0eEs0 104.192.24.154 (talk) 01:11, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Sources

I don’t know if videos count as a source but this YouTuber who lives in Puerto Rico and filmed the last video inside that Kmart has said it has closed at around the 2:30 mark. Just curious. https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=iAmQYdAxpQYan3hj&v=sUzZ04KDRPI&feature=youtu.be TheUSConservative (talk) 04:03, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Link also posted in above thread, and replied to there. Meters (talk) 16:20, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

August 7 2023 Kmart Update

This is the status of kmart and its stores

As of April 2022, Only 9 stores Remain.

2x St. Thomas 2x St. Croix 1x FL 1x NJ 1x NY 1x Guam 1x PR

As Of Today

2x St. Thomas (Both Still Up) 2x St. Croix (Sunshine Mall One Closed; Declared 6/5/23) (At Least 2 Sources Confirms That: https://viconsortium.com/vi-business/virgin-islands-kmart-west-is-closing-mall-owner-says-redevelopment-plan-will-provide-first-rate-center & https://stthomassource.com/content/2023/06/07/one-kmart-on-st-croix-to-close-retail-consulting-firm-reports/) 1x FL (Downsized 3-28-23. Pictures & Some YT Videos Confirms That & https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/03/28/blue-light-blues-for-kmart-shoppers-as-one-of-last-standing-stores-gets-even-smaller/) 1x NJ (Closing In September Or October 2023. Declared Last Week: There are about 6 articles that confirms its closure and a YT video) 1x NY (Still Open) 1x Guam (Still Open) 1x PR (Closed October 2022. Was already there on Transform Co Page)

This will bring it to 6 stores. I tried to update it but @MrOllie reverted it and sent me here. Mmartinezmdr (talk) 22:43, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Please read the rest of the talk page. We cannot conduct WP:OR to track the number of stores ourselves. If you want to change it to '6' you need a reliable source that says '6'. We cannot change the article to be inconsistent with the cited source. MrOllie (talk) 22:45, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

UPDATE: https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/pascackvalley/attention-kmart-shoppers-final-jersey-location-shutting-down-in-westwood/ "Westwood store is closing September 30" Mmartinezmdr (talk) 22:45, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Scheduling for this sort of thing often changes. We need cites that something has closed not is going to close. See WP:CRYSTAL. MrOllie (talk) 22:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

alright. Westwood store. I'll circle back September 30 or beginning of October. Mmartinezmdr (talk) 22:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I hope you do, buddy, but again, the problem we are going to likely run into, is that there are always articles when a store STARTS CLOSING.

But there are almost never any, when a store has wrapped up liquidation, as it's just not a story that generates any interest from media outlets, unfortunately. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 22:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Not really true. I gave an example above. MrOllie (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Fair, but that example was an exception, not the norm. Of the most recent Kmart closings, from 2022, Hato Rey PR, Avenel NJ, I have seen no such articles, nor have I seen them for over 90% of the closed locations in the last 5 (OR SO) Years, since I started following this stuff. 104.192.24.154 (talk) 05:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

This standard isn’t used anywhere else to update locations especially in something niche. We won’t get any sources on Puerto Rico closing, which it certainly did months ago, due to it being Spanish and most American outlets didn’t cover it. TheUSConservative (talk) 19:18, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Close by the end of the month is also a deadline that the source used and has long passed so we know they won’t be updating it to reiterate it already closed when they preemptively said it would and gave a deadline. Unless there is a history of these store magically not closing when they said they were and lasting almost a year after it was reported to be closing the source seems pretty valid to call it a shut case that it closed. TheUSConservative (talk) 19:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:V and WP:CRYSTAL are a 'standard' (that is, policies) used everywhere on Wikipedia. We don't conduct WP:OR just because we're impatient to update the article. We have no deadline and can afford to wait for sourcing that actually supports article changes and is in line with WP:RS requirements. MrOllie (talk) 19:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

At the cost of accuracy I strongly disagree with that notion. If no one wrote anything about the end of something niche we would be forever burdened with the idea that it still exists even when it clearly doesn’t and multiple articles list a date it stopped existing. No one is covering Puerto Rico. Tell me one source that says it’s open. TheUSConservative (talk) 19:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Why are we using this strict standard for stores we know closed but not for stores we have no sources for that are even open. We have no source that claims Kmart PR is open at all. Not one. Zip. TheUSConservative (talk) 19:32, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

The absense of evidence is not evidence of absence. WP:NOR is core policy. You may disagree with it, but we all have to follow it. MrOllie (talk) 19:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok, however we do not follow this stringent rules when it comes to most of the locations Kmart has had. Almost none of them have had articles written about them after they closed. You can cite a few examples maybe, but no where near all of them or even half of them. Probably not even 10% of them got articles after they closed and we somehow must rely on the chance that it happens in this case. I just firmly disagree. TheUSConservative (talk) 04:11, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Periodically we get a source that says something like the 'only 9 Kmarts remain.' That confirms all the closures at once. We don't need an article for every store, nor should we really be using the ones that do exist because (once again) we shouldn't be conducting WP:OR by combining sources. I also reject this 90%/10% statistic being thrown around, which appears to be based on nothing at all. MrOllie (talk) 12:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

9 Stores Is Wrong. Per My Assumption Using The Articles From Brostocks (https://brostocks.com/2023/05/29/how-many-sears-stores-are-left/ & https://brostocks.com/2023/06/06/how-many-kmarts-are-left-in-the-united-states/ (Obiously, St. Croix Mall Store Is Likely Already Closed And Westwood Is Closing), It Should Eventually Be 17 Locations (6 Kmart & 11 Sears). But Once Again, An Article Is Needed. Mmartinezmdr (talk) 13:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Another example of why we don't use people's completely unreliable selfpublished blogs. MrOllie (talk) 13:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Does a YouTube video by someone from the area who was the last person to film the store saying it closed around the 2:30 mark count as a source? I’m curious. https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=iAmQYdAxpQYan3hj&v=sUzZ04KDRPI&feature=youtu.be TheUSConservative (talk) 17:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please read WP:RS to get a feel for what is and is not a usable source. No form of social media (including youtube videos) should be used. MrOllie (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I might just be dense but what about if someone posts a photo or video of the location where the store was at and it clearly shows it either abandoned, not existing, or replaced by something else. At that point can we safely say it’s close? TheUSConservative (talk) 20:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

No. We have a long term toll here who has falsified sources in the past. We cannot rely on self-published materials. MrOllie (talk) 20:22, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

For the record, I agree with you, US conservative (from a fellow US conservative, I like your username BTW, LOL).

As I mentioned, even for US based locations, there are exceptions, but in over 90% of cases (probably closer to 98%), I have not seen a source stating a store actually closed. Again, I realize he posted such a case above, but that is extremely rare. Even for the 4 Kmarts that recently closed in NYC (the largest city and media market in the country), there exists no such article that I could find. Ditto for the Sears store in Brooklyn NYC. Again, plenty of articles at the start of liquidation, but few, if any, at completion.

Not my issue, if Wiki is inaccurate to the counts, so be it, but just pointing out, it will be very hard to find such articles. I'll leave it at that. Best....... 104.192.24.154 (talk) 20:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I saw the Westwood location closing all over news outlets and picked a nj.com source about it closing in Sept or Oct and wrote “The Westwood location is set to close in late 2023”. I read through WP:CRYSTAL and I don’t think that prohibits the statement there, as it’s from a verifiable source, is unbiased, and gives a timeframe, and says that it is “set to” close, meaning that it will unless something changes - and if something does change, then we’ll change it too. If it were to be prohibited by Crystal, then, by that same logic, this list of future Interstate Highways should be wiped clean because nothing here is “definite” and things could change. However, at this point I suggest you all seek a moderator to help you all out, as this is becoming unproductive. Jason Ingtonn (talk) 14:49, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Writing about planned events is exactly what WP:CRYSTAL is meant to prevent. MrOllie (talk) 15:03, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

If you haven’t already, a moderator should probably check that. It seems very odd to me that a simple statement like that isn’t allowed, especially with consensus in favor of including it. Jason Ingtonn (talk) 15:21, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

If by "moderator" you mean an administrator, admins on Wikipedia have no authority to override policy, and WP:CRYSTAL is a policy that clearly states: "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. Dates are not definite until the event actually takes place, as even otherwise-notable events can be cancelled or postponed at the last minute by a major incident." And if there is a consensus here (and I'm not saying there is), that also cannot override policy. If you want to change the policy, discuss at WT:NOT, not here. Sundayclose (talk) 16:52, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Liquidation Is Already In Progress. Im Guessing since many cant make up a date, we will likely expect an article declaring that westwood is closed. Mmartinezmdr (talk) 17:48, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I suggested having an admin’s input on whether or not the above edit I suggested would go against certain policies, and to settle this wide dispute as well. I did not suggest changing policies in any way. I say this because there is a lot of back and forth going on and questions regarding interpretation of policies. If anyone knows of an admin that can give a final say, please ping them to settle this. Jason Ingtonn (talk) 18:10, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

That isn't what admins do on Wikipedia. MrOllie (talk) 18:31, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Waiting a bit and repeating the same edit doesn't change the issues here - we shouldn't be covering planned closures per WP:CRYSTAL. MrOllie (talk) 22:55, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Most Agree With September Or October 2023. One Said 9/30/23 As The Close Date. Mmartinezmdr (talk) 15:36, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

WP: Crystal

I disagree with the application of this policy for the planned closure of the NJ location. The policy does not ban writing about planned events in the immediate future if they are accepted and well-documented. The policy gives examples like an upcoming election versus an election years from now. The planned closure is documented in the news and verifiable. It is not original research nor should there be any expectation it will be cancelled. poketape 07:46, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

At this point, it's literally just a few days away. I've looked in the above discussion regarding the WP:CRYSTAL issue- while I don't fully agree with it, it's honestly not worth it at this point. Hopefully there will be some articles about its closure after it closes on Saturday night. I actually live near the Westwood location- I'm planning on possibly visiting on Monday to see if there's any sort of sign saying about its closure. Magitroopa (talk) 19:13, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

We're not a breaking news service, and there is no deadline.. We can wait a little while for events to actually happen and for proper sources to be available. - MrOllie (talk) 19:16, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

You're seeming to take WP:CRYSTAL too literal, though. What you're saying is that it hasn't occurred yet (which is true), so it cannot be mentioned whatsoever in the article (which is not true). You seem to be going straight to the, "Dates are not definite until the event actually takes place" part, and skipping over the, "...should be included only if the event is notable..." part.

The other thing to point out is that the wording of it matters quite a bit in regard to WP:CRSTYAL. Putting in the article, "The Westwood location will close on September 30." does go against CRSTYAL, as it says, anything can change with it at the last minute. However, putting in the article, "The Westwood location is reported to be closing on September 30." does not go against CRSTYAL: just from doing a quick search, I see around eight different articles ([3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]), most of which I know are reliable sources, reporting it to be closing. I can currently only find one source reporting the September 30 date. Even then, with the other eight articles, putting in the article that, "The Westwood location is reported to be closing in fall 2023." and citing 1 or 2 of them certainly does not violate CRYSTAL. Magitroopa (talk) 19:57, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

By what you're currently saying, all Wikipedia article aren't allowed to mention something upcoming until it actually occurs, even if supported by sourcing. However, if COVID has taught us anything, this is why the article for upcoming film Captain America: Brave New World says that it is, "...scheduled to be released in the United States on July 26, 2024...", not, "will be released". Magitroopa (talk) 20:12, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

This article has a long history of trying to follow store by store closures up to the minute, which lead to a long, bloated article which just recited news headlines, especially when those plans would inevitably change, because store closures are not coordinated and tightly scheduled multiplatform marketing pushes like movie releases. I'm saying that was a terrible idea and we should not start going down that path again. MrOllie (talk) 20:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't regularly edit this article, so thank you for that information. However, that was then, this is now. Of course we don't want it going back to a whole bloated article, but at this point, being the final three in the continental US, the closures of these three should be mentioned, even if it's just within one sentence.

With the importance of these final three stores, I think the sentence should be restructured when the Westwood location does close. For example:

• As of April 2022, only 3 locations remained in the continental United States: in Miami, Florida; Westwood, New Jersey; and Bridgehampton, New York.[source]

Could probably be updated to:

• In September 2023, the Westwood, New Jersey location closed,[source] leaving the Miami, Florida and Bridgehampton, New York locations as the last ones in the continental United States.

As opposed to leaving the sentence the way it is and just removing the Westwood location mention. Magitroopa (talk) 21:02, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

By the way... no clue what day/time they actually closed at, but they certainly were all done prior to (what would've been) 7pm closing time today. Westwood, NJ Kmart has officially closed. (Imgur album with some photos I took today) Magitroopa (talk) 22:21, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

No one seems to be writing articles about the stores once they close. Who knows how long it will be until another store does close if one even does. Will we be sitting here for a year with obviously wrong information on this article because people are too stubborn to accept phot, video, and website listings of the property available for lease as evidence it closed? This article isn’t accurate anymore. It’s incorrect which is a problem. TheUSConservative (talk) 03:51, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

There's nothing "incorrect" about what we say in the article: "As of April 2022, only 3 locations remained in the continental United States" sourced to the latest reference (April 2022) we have that gives a count. Meters (talk) 07:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Does this source work? I want to make sure before editing anything.

https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/pascackvalley/attention-kmart-shoppers-final-jersey-location-shutting-down-in-westwood/ TheUSConservative (talk) 14:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

No, as already discussed further up the page. MrOllie (talk) 15:30, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

It really was incorrect after your latest edit. You changed the total to '8' but that is unsupported by the source. MrOllie (talk) 16:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

That’s your opinion. You don’t own this Wikipedia page and if it doesn’t go against the policies you cannot revert edits or prevent people from editing like that when it doesn’t violate WP:Crystal. The past is irrelevant at this point. There are 7 or so locations left so bloating shouldn’t be an issue. TheUSConservative (talk) 15:58, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

if it doesn’t go against the policies you cannot revert edits or prevent people from editing like that when it doesn’t violate WP:Crystal. You have obviously misunderstood how Wikipedia works, from what WP:CRYSTAL says, to how consensus works, to when it is and isn't permitted to revert someone. MrOllie (talk) 16:03, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok we both seem to be talking past each other at this point it seems like. I opened a dispute to allow others to comment and maybe they can show me what I’m missing if I’m missing anything.

https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&oldid=1178850456#Kmart TheUSConservative (talk) 08:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you, man. The Kmart website's finder only shows 6 locations. Also this page shows the store closed. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Westwood,_New_Jersey#Shopping_and_entertainment 65.152.208.2 (talk) 19:06, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

https://hekemian.com/property/westwood-plaza/ The property listing for the plaza Westwood Kmart was in shows the building as available and unoccupied. That seems to be a source. Not to mention we have pictures of the door that says it’s closed. TheUSConservative (talk) 04:36, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Locator

Kmart locator is now showing 6 locations (2 in the US, Miami and Bridgehampton). Why exactly is this not a valid source? https://www.kmart.com/stores

Furthermore, even the WESTWOOD NJ Wiki page shows that it is closed. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Westwood,_New_Jersey#Shopping_and_entertainment

Why is that page showing that the store closed, but not this article? 65.152.208.2 (talk) 19:03, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. What is that page's claim based on? If there's a reliable source there then we can reuse the source. If not then, we just get into a circular loop of justifying this page's content based on what that page claims, and that page's content based on what this page says.

I would accept the KMart page as a reliable source, but I don't see any way to get that page to tell us how many stores there are or where they are. Meters (talk) 19:16, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

And please don't post the same thing in multiple threads. Meters (talk) 19:19, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I didn't ask what "you would accept". I asked what's permitted in Wikipedia, in general. So if we don't have a reliable source here, then why is it allowed on the other wiki page? Rules should be applied uniformly, right?

As for kmart's site, it is working, but it is slightly awkward to use. One needs to input a zipcode, and it will show the stores within 100 mile radius. The zip code for West Wood, is 07675. https://www.zip-codes.com/city/nj-westwood.asp

Input that into the Kmart finder, and you will see that West Wood is no longer listed. Only Bridgehampton is listed in that area. Keep putting in zip codes for every state in the country, as well as the territories of Guam, and USVI. You will see there are only 6 locations left, 2 of which are in the US. 65.152.208.2 (talk) 19:53, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

And I told you what is allowed. Using Wikipedia as a source is not. We cannot add something here just because it is on another page. Read WP:RS. The rules are the same everywhere on Wikipedia. If there is a problem with the sourcing on some other page then take it up on that page, not here.

As for the store locator, it appears to be next to useless for our purposes. We can't find out how many stores KMart now has from that store locator. I don't believe that you have rigorously checked every possible location in the US using Zipcodes (where did you get that list from, how do you prove that the list actually covers all possible locations, and how do you prove that you did the work?) and it would not be acceptable even in you had. See WP:V and WP:OR. You could also use the store locator by combining sources that list remaining stores with store locator results for those locations. That would be WP:SYNTHESIS.and is not allowed either.

I've tweaked the text to mention that one of the 3 remaining US stores (as of April 2022) was expected to close in September or October 2023. Without better sources that's all we can say.

And please read what has already been discussed on this page. This has all been covered before. Meters (talk) 20:45, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Welp, this probably won't work either, but the only thing I can think of, is to use the "100 mile radius" feature on that website to eliminate areas of the country which have no stores. The country is roughly 3000 miles wide and 1000 miles north/south. Shouldn't take long to input enough zip codes to show which stores exist within a 100 mile radius of that zip code. And again, inputting the zip code for West Wood NJ, clearly shows that there is no store within 100 miles of that zip code, which obviously means that none exists in that town (if the store locator is to be considered reliable). As for finding zip codes, that is extremely easy on USPS's website. https://tools.usps.com/zip-code-lookup.htm

You are correct that I have not put in every single zip code. But I can easily put in enough, to cover several 100 mile radii, which could cover the entire footprint of the US (and territories). For example, if I enter 00801 (a USVI zip code) and search within 100 mile radius, it shows 3 stores listed.

But if y'all can't use it, so be it...... 65.152.208.2 (talk) 21:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Update (Oct. 2023)

Kmart now down to 2 U.S. locations. As per this article, https://www.nj.com/business/2023/08/kmart-is-closing-its-last-nj-store.html , the last New Jersey location closed in September 2023, leaving Bridgehampton, New York and Miami, Florida as the only remaining stores in operation. Terry67401ks (talk) 13:54, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

That source does not say that the store is closed. It is an August 4 source that says the store is expected to close in September or October. Meters (talk) 19:05, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

This exact issue has been discussed multiple times. Please read the talk page before posting. Meters (talk) 19:17, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I did read the talk page. My apologies. Looks like Oct. 29th is the final day of business. Terry67401ks (talk) 01:24, 18 October 2023 (UTC)