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Sources and notability

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I requested edit access to The Thundermans page to link to Kira's page here.

I am unsure what the first issue seems to be. Is it that all bare URLs were cited within the first sentence?

I believe the article of her is notable, and I've done well so far to assure it remains that way and improves as more sources are available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BirthOfJesus (talk • contribs) 21:49, January 18, 2014‎ (UTC)

The problem here is not so much the number of sources you added or the bare url, but their quality. They're either not reliable sources like Youtube and IMDB, or they qualify as primary sources like interviews and newsfeeds. What we need to demonstrate notability is in-depth coverage by secondary sources, i.e. reliable sources that are independent of the article's subject like nation-wide newspapers and magazine or TV channels.
Additionally this is really short stub article of one line while proper biographical articles should ideally contain more information about the person's professional background like training, past roles in notable series or movies, etc. As it stands, the current article should rather be redirected to The Thundermans. De728631 (talk) 22:38, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with you. IMDb is a good reference for her filmography and career works. I gave at least one decent source from Sun Sentinel, which is a good source. Are you saying that a source must be nationwide? I have personally come across many pages on her that do not have national sources, yet they are never suggested to be deleted. As it stands the evidence is showing at some degree that she is notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.141.208.114 (talk) 20:19, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Links were added from The Thundermans to this page, so the orphan notification shall be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BirthOfJesus (talk • contribs) 21:21, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Photo

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That picture of her has such terrible quality that it'd be better to not have a photo. I suggest removing it and getting a better resolution one, or leave none for now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.139.19.96 (talk) 18:45, 20 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

COI article tag

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This article was tagged with a {{COI}} tag back in September 2015. Does anyone know anything more about this? Was it a registered account, or one more more IPs that seemed to have a COI? I'd like more information about this to determine if it's still an ongoing problem. Pinging Rms125a@hotmail.com as the editor who originally added the tag to this article.

P.S. I agree with the post above that sources used for this article are of very low quality – I'll try to get back to this article soon in an attempt to remedy that... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:37, 18 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK, sourcing has now been improved. (Still waiting to hear back on the COI tag...) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:43, 19 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the COI tag as whoever it was doesn't seem to have came back .... –Davey2010Talk 21:09, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kira Kosarin's Jewish Evidence

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My reference do explicitely support that, because she holds menorah on the photo and because she attended Jewish preschool. That's obvious and accurate evidence, ethnic in nature. Also read here: https://prezi.com/kqdmliw2c-ff/my-family-history/ And listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FndSaW553c — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.37.179.97 (talk) 09:35, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

An implication based on attendance at a school to conclude a religious belief or ethnic background is insufficient. That is original research and WP:SYNTHESIS. You are likely familiar with Jews and recognize behavior patterns and your evaluation of the evidence is likely correct. However we need a much more explicit statement from her or reliable source that makes an explicit statement for a Wikipedia article. See also Who is a Jew? and WP:BLPCAT - "Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) or sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources.". More at Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:42, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Totally agree. For something like this, you'd need an interview where she explicitly says "I am Jewish." Anything short of that, and it should not be in the article... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:41, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There's now this, where she all but confirms her "100% Eastern European Ashkenazi Jewish" ancestry. Surely good enough for a category? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:50, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No. That is a genealogical DNA test she is talking about. It says nothing about how she self-identifies which is all that matters. DNA tests just show genetic similarity to some group of people, they give no other information. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 13:21, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Should we add her Jewish heritage as an ethnicity?

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She has confirmed that she is of Jewish heritage. I am not saying she identifies as a practicing Jew, but Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Plus WP:TWITTER states that if there is no reason to doubt its as authenticity and is about themselves, it is allowed.2605:6001:EB41:A800:25EC:6887:4F1F:1137 (talk) 02:54, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's trivial, unless she herself has gone into substantial detail about it in a secondary source (e.g. an interview). IOW, she has to clearly identify herself in a strong secondary source. These tangential drive-by WP:ABOUTSELF "blurbs" she's offered up on social media don't come nearly close enough to justify their inclusion in an encyclopedia. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:02, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. She is obviously Jewish.

Kosarin is Jewish (of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry from Eastern Europe).[1][2]

109.65.58.63 (talk) 15:53, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Way to ignore the previous comment. The "sourcing" you are quoting does not come close to cutting it for inclusion in a WP:BLP. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:18, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What does number 4 of that policy say?76.187.211.251 (talk) 04:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.instagram.com/p/ziJNKHMRLS/
  2. ^ https://twitter.com/kirakosarin/status/885935624854708224

Shall we add an info box?

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Should we add an infobox in this article? It isn’t written very well.76.187.211.251 (talk) 01:21, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As per this edit, not at this time. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Notability as a singer

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I was just having a read of WP:MUSIC and I believe Kira Kosarin now qualifies as a notable singer. She meets the following criteria points:

1. She's had 3-4 articles written about her music, that I have found. There may be more.

4. There have been mentions of her UK tour in independent sources.

10. She obviously did the theme song for The Thundermans.

11. She recently performed Vinyl at the KCAs in Germany.

What does everyone else think? – DarkGlow (talk) 22:27, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@DarkGlow: I'd say notability is still dubious as nothing has charted and coverage I've seen is more passing mentions than detailed. Looks to be more of a hobby by a notable actress and she gets coverage for her music because she is a notable actress, not because of being a musician. Also looking at what she had done, I see mentions of co-writing lyrics but nothing about writing melodies for the songs she sings, even as a co-writer. A lot of times singers get a writing credit because of their input to the creation of the song by professional songwriters. For being a songwriter as an occupation I'd expect to see credits for songs she wrote totally on her own without help. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:04, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the 'Discography' again, on the basis that, as Geraldo says, nothing has charted. And relying on Hollywood Life as the single source to establish the notability of the singing career is dubious at best. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 08:08, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading and missing information

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I'm a starter Wikipedia editor but I can tell when a page has missing because of bias from the editor and this one is one of them. Some of this stuff could be settled with a quick search.
A starting point would be the fact that Kosarin wasn't signed to AWAL Recordings but to AWAL Core, a music distribuitor, not a record label. She's always been independent and not just after Songbird. Kosarin's label and the owner of her masters (listed on the credits of every single one of her songs since the debut Vinyl) is Off Brand Music, an independent label created just so she could own the rights to her own music. Independent musicians (or to quote Wikipedia itself: musicians "outside of the mass media traditions") such as Kosarin do not need to chart in order to be considered notable but need to be covered on a fair amount of publications about music sub-culture (as linked bellow). Yes, Kosarin is fairly famous as an actress and you could expect her to chart because of it, but unlike artists like Dove Cameron or even Ariana Grande, she isn't signed and is a fully independent artist making all decisions for herself.
Regardless, her noticibility as a songwriter can be easily checked as well: She posted videos of herself writing melodies, not just lyrics. She has also talked about "writing by her piano" on several interviews (linked bellow) and writing with her guitar on her balcony is the theme of the title track on Songbird. Besides being listed as the only songwriter on some of the songs from her latest EP, Kosarin is listed as a songwriter on songs that she isn't listed as a singer in: including but not limited to [tidal.com/browse/track/121442202?play=trueSo Cal] by Cal Shapiro (where she is credit as both a composer and a lyricist, meaning she wrote the melodies just as much as the words) and Roses by Jaron Takach. Cal Shapiro (known as CAL on his solo project) is on the band Timeflies that has in fact, charted and performed at the NBAs and on Good Morning America. It is ridiculous to assume he would list and pay someone for a songwriting credit if they just gave a little input about how the song should sound. The song SO CAL written by Shapiro, Kosarin and Nevin Sastry was mentioned by Billboard upon release over a year ago.
She is also on the top 50 most followed TikTok users which is something that should be on her Wikipedia page, considering brand partnerships on TikTok are one of her sources of income (as easily noticiable on her TikTok page), which makes her a professional.
I'm linking a few more articles with information you might be lacking about adult Kira Kosarin, that isn't "from HollywoodLife". They're interviews and pieces written by professional journalists or professionals from the music industry from different countries, even.

All of that being said, I'll refrain from making edits that aren't approved because I'm a starter editor, but I am a journalist and I know research is the only thing that matters when writing anything, but specially a biography of a living person. This research wasn't hard at all to do. Aside for that, considering this page is a part of [Women], I recomend making sure if the commentary added to this talk page doesn't have sexist connotations before posting them. Giulia Santana (talk) 21:12, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Plenty of actors sing on the side – that doesn't mean "singer" is a notable profession for them. To be notable as a singer, you have to demonstrate that you've charted somewhere significant, not simply that you've "released" music (which, again, these days pretty much anybody can do...). Indeed, the fact that she's signed not to a "record label" but to a "music distributor" would further burnish that point. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Kira does meet WP:SINGER, since she has met "at least one" of the criteria listed there, having been the subject of independent sources that verify her occupation as a singer. – DarkGlow (talk) 21:43, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself. Debatable – when she gets coverage at the Rolling Stone-type level of music coverage, then it's notable. None of what is listed above looks to be "non-trivial"... Again, any celebrity can "release an album", and will get "celebrity releases an album"-type coverage. None of them means they have a notable career, as a singer. Wikipedia has way too much promotional "career bloat" as it is, and I'm one of the editors that really would like to push back on that. Right now, if you asked anyone that knew about her, they will tell you that she is "an actress". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:00, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is exactly the type of sexist, biased and patronizing commentary I critized on my first remark. Diminishing someone's work on the industry because you don't know much about the industry shows you shouldn't be writing about this subject. Please do a research on independent musicians. Kosarin has been working with known names of the independent music industry for years now and she did for years before her debut. Saying "everyone can release music" when refering to someone who grew up with Alex Lacamoire it's a very interesting take. And if you really think only "Rolling Stone" level coverage is remarkable and not being signed is a sign of not being known enough, may I suggest you leave 1970? Names like Chance The Rapper and Frank Ocean aren't signed to any labels either, but you might also not know who they are. Not to mention, her work was quoted on Billboard and LadyGunn as you've seen above. Releasing her music independently has allowed Kosarin to play concerts for thousands of people in more than one country. She played a sold out Mall of Asia in 2019 and that's not a small feat for an independent musician. And "if you ask anyone they'll say she's an actor", is that what Wikipedia is now? Hearsay? Not a well researched source of information? Like I said, I'm not making unauthorazied edits, but I wanted to point out that this page has incomplete and incorrect information, in case anyone wants to check it thinking it's a credible source on the person it covers.Giulia Santana (talk) 23:57, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is WP:NOTPROMOTION. I'm sorry but Kosarin does not meet WP:NMUSICOTHER either. There is nothing "sexist" about this. Wikipedia reports on *what people are notable* for – IOW, what they are recognized for. Kosarin is overwhelmingly recognized as an actress currently. That may change in the future, but that's where we are right now. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:15, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your commentary was sexist, not the decision or the guideline. It is possible to say you don't think an information is relevant to someone's carreer without immediately saying "anyone can do this". No one says this about men that have more than one skill, they're overarcheivers but then women are just doing it because these days everyone can do it. Biographic writing is not promotion but it needs to be done right and with research, not just dumping the first piece of information you find on a quick Google search. I hope you at least consider fixing the information that is objectively wrong on this page. But if you don't, I've done my part. Good luck. Giulia Santana (talk) 00:33, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is Billboard good enough for you?

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Kira Kosarin Signs With Republic Records, Releases ‘Mood Ring’ Single: Exclusive — Preceding unsigned comment added by Giulia Santana (talk • contribs) 15:11, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. This is perfunctory coverage. Again, actually charting would make this notable. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:18, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I'm not even gonna fight you on that because it's very well documented how you're going against your own words right now. The fact that you refuse to update her page with accurate information and it still says she's signed to AWAL, which is not a label, just out of spite is very telling of the kind of Wikipedia editor you are. Billboard covering her being signed to Republic Records isn't "notable" but Tiger Beat annoucing AWAL was her distribuitor IS notable? You're hurting yourself in confusion. I miss when Wikipedia was a trusted source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Giulia Santana (talk • contribs) 17:04, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kosarin signing with a major label that receives coverage on Billboard is notable imo. I'm pretty sure I'm the editor that added AWAL as her label as I believed it to be a record label at the time. I'm happy to update that and add info about her signing to the page because it's improving a WP:BLP. – DarkGlow • 18:40, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Finally someone reasonable. Giulia Santana (talk) 21:00, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edits removed

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I am not sure why my edit has been removed. I added a personal life section with information that Kira Kosarin herself confirmed on her Tiktok account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User:Graveyard-duty (talk • contribs) 18:53, May 17, 2022‎ (UTC)

The edit summary from MPFitz1968 included three links to help you:
Granted they all point ultimately to the same page, but that may help get the point across. I've also added a welcome message to your talk page - that contains help as well. Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:59, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

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I am unable to revert my edit, someone should help me out please,I tried arranging it how it was but it keeps going back please help me Uricdivine (talk) 12:46, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Change of lead image

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I´ve changed the lead image from File:Kira Kosarin dehors Ritz PDB.png to File:Kira Kosarin @ Moroccan Lounge 08 25 2022 (52513789961).jpg as the last lmage is better as it is not overexposed, it is a photo of this artist performing. Also previous image was uploaded by an blocked user in this wiki for sockpuppetry and image could be an copyvio as there is a weird horizontal white line that is ot part of the original image and could be from a image viewer and so the image could be a screenshot. If no one says makes valid arguments to the contrary i will readd File:Kira Kosarin @ Moroccan Lounge 08 25 2022 (52513789961).jpg as lead image. Tm (talk) 03:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Uploader is blocked in enwiki but is fairly prolific on Commons. I could find no indication of that image being a copyvio there. The line at the bottom should be cropped out though. Overall, a picture of a person with a normal smile is better than one with an open mouth laugh in showing the normal appearance of the person. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:31, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In truth, neither image is great, though File:Kira Kosarin dehors Ritz PDB.png is a better portrait image of these two choices... Are there any other options here? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:02, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There are thirty photos in commons:Category:Kira Kosarin. I've replaced the overexposed street photo with a much better lit image of her playing the guitar. Belbury (talk) 21:42, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Find an image where we can see her complete face, not one with a microphone covering part of it. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:13, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In a balance of pros and cons, I think this one being a well-lit and professionally-shot photo except not showing the bottom right corner of her face (without concealing anything unexpected about it, it looks the same as the bottom left corner of her face) outweighs the current one showing her whole face except being fairly low-resolution with her squinting into bright sunshine.
I'll add it back later in the article anyway, rather than ignoring these high res concert photos entirely. I can't tell if you're specificially objecting to me having initially cropped the tall smartphone screenshot photo by reverting that too, perhaps you object to it not showing the very ends of her hair, so I'll walk away at this point. --Belbury (talk) 08:03, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To illustrate her performing in a section about that it is fine. For the infobox image an image showing her complete face is better even if lower quality. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:21, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Engagement

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Is this a good and better source about Kira's engagement. https://www.j-14.com/posts/kira-kosarin-dating-history-boyfriend-engagement-details/ I also want to avoid gossip. Cwater1 (talk) 16:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For this information, I'd say yes. Ultimate source was her instagram which could also be used if it is verified. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:06, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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