Talk:Karka d-Ledan

Duplicate?

@HistoryofIran: Is this the same place as Eran-asan-kerd-Kawad? - LouisAragon (talk) 20:22, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@LouisAragon: Oops, yes. I was wondering why there was no article of the city. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:30, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@LouisAragon: Or actually, it can't be completely the same as Eran-asan-kerd-Kawad, considering it was located in the Hulwan area, and according to Iranica was a province, perhaps duplicate names? Thoughts?

@HistoryofIran: That would certainly be a strong possibility. To be honest, at the time, I found it pretty difficult to write Eran-asan-kerd-Kawad due to inconsistencies in the sources. Not sure what we should do. I'm curious for the opinions of Srnec, Cplakidas and Kansas Bear. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:54, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge? --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:12, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The provinces in the Quarter of the West given in this list are probably best reconstructed as May (Mah = Media), Masptan (Masabadhan), Mihrank'atak (Mihrajanqadhaq), K'arshkar (Kaskar), Garmakan, Eran-asan-k'art-Kavat, and Not-Artashirakan.6 Although the location of Eran-asan-k'art-Kavat ("Qubadh has put Iran at ease") cannot be identified otherwise, the process of elimination puts it most likely in a part of Iraq not occupied by the other provinces. Marquart suggested that it may have been the general designation for the group of districts created by Qubadh before the formation of the Quarter of the West: Veh-Kavat in the center of the Sawad, Shadh Qubadh around Firuz Shapur (Anbar), and the district also called Shadh Qubadh east of the Tigris between Mada'in and Hulwan.7 Other considerations suggest that Eran-asan-k'art-Kavat may have been located between Kaskar and Hulwan. Iran after the Muslim conquest, p. 127-128

Yeah, must be two different places. Karka d-Ledan was a notable Christian city in Khuzestan that gained prominence under Shapur II (later to renamed by Kavad I), while this area was some sort of district in Mesopotamia or Media founded by Kavad I. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) So I did a little digging... I think there are three things here. One is the not certainly located province of Eran-asan-kerd-Kawad. Then there is the more certainly located province of Eran-xwarrah-Shapur, which contained the cities of Susa and nearby Karka d-Ledan. The latter was the provincial capital and was thus known as Eran-xwarrah-Shapur-shahrestan. See here and here. The source of confusion seems to be (1) the natural shortening of the city name Eran-xwarrah-Shapur-shahrestan to be identical to that of the province and (2) the mistaken identification of Eran-xwarrah-Shapur-shahrestan with Susa. Of course, there must also have been an Eran-asan-kerd-Kawad-shahrestan. This book by Daryaee (possibly not legally online) cites Gyselen's identification with Hulwan and Markwart's with a place even further northwest. In short, I'd keep Karka d-Ledan here at this title and just remove the Susa/Shapur stuff from Eran-asan-kerd-Kawad. Srnec (talk) 21:49, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Srnec: Thank you for your response. Would you be willing to implement these changes at Eran-asan-kerd-Kawad. I don't wanna remove too much information unintentionally. - LouisAragon (talk) 11:49, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@LouisAragon: Done. I see we have an article at Šahrestānīhā ī Ērānšahr. It'd be nice at some point to have a list of capitals mentioned in that work there. Srnec (talk) 14:34, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]