Talk:Just like Heaven

On 10 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Just Like Heaven to Just like Heaven. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just like Heaven → Just Like Heaven — All three things linked are fully capitalized. This was initially named "Just Like Heaven" but moved in 2007 by User:Extraordinary Machine, who thought the naming conventions required lowercase "like". — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 02:38, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, since this page is a disambiguation page, shouldn't the title be Just like heaven? The pages that are linked to from here are (currently) all proper names, but the title of this page isn't a proper name is it?
— $V = I * R$ (talk) 06:26, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support move. Extraordinary Machine did have a point: "like" is used as a preposition here, and prepositions are normally uncapitalized. That said, I don't think it's common usage at all to use uncapitalized "like" in title case. This is evident from the titles of the other articles. Jafeluv (talk) 09:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but I think that the reason the issue originally came up for the word "like" is what I talked about above. Since this is a DAB page, should the title be in title case? Regardless, it should be one way or another. The current, half way solution, is just kind of silly.
— $V = I * R$ (talk) 09:57, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think the title of the dab page should be in title case if all disambiguated articles are in title case as well. If there are several usages on the page, the uncapitalized title is usually preferred. (WP:DABNAME: "The title of a disambiguation page is the ambiguous term itself" – I think this includes capitalization). Jafeluv (talk) 11:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense, thanks. I guess I should "officially" state that I Support the proposed name change, then.
— $V = I * R$ (talk) 11:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 10 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. I am going to try and give a detailed explanation here. Overall, the support side largely focuses on adherence to the Wikipedia MOS, specifically, the guidelines regarding the capitalisation of prepositions, while the opposition emphasises real-world usage and the capitalisation present in reliable sources, suggesting that Wikipedia should reflect these trends rather than strictly adhere to its MOS in cases where there is notable evidence of alternative capitalisation. While there is a clear division between those who prioritise the MOS and those who prioritise real-world usage, the consensus still leans towards supporting the move, even though there is notable opposition based on the prevalence of capitalisation in reliable sources. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:33, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– An RM discussion at Talk:Just like Heaven (2005 film)#Requested move 2 March 2024 just concluded with a consensus that the preposition "like" should be in lowercase for that title per MOS:CT. That's true for all of these, not just that one. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 07:28, 10 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support all per nom and previous RM. Dicklyon (talk) 08:43, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this is beyond stupid. If "Like" is capitalized, it should be capitalized in the article name. I don't think I should even need to point to a WP standard to just say that this is a stupid proposal. CAVincent (talk) 12:07, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per this general usage ngram. As for being "beyond stupid", as CAVincent opines, no comment. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Like we saw in a previous discussion at Talk:Never Be Like You, reliable sources always capitalize "Like" in these titles. I'd also be in favour of amending the MOS, per User:CAVincent. 162 etc. (talk) 17:04, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then go make an amendment proposal at WT:MOS. Guidelines you wish did not apply still do apply unless and until they change. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:11, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The guideline as it reads today still does not support this proposed move. MOS:TITLECAPS asks us to use lowercase for short prepositions "except when a significant majority of current, reliable sources that are independent of the subject consistently capitalize, in the title of a specific work, a word that is frequently not a preposition, such as "Like" and "Past"". 162 etc. (talk) 03:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support; this is an obvious MOS:5LETTER case (there is not even any kind of question that this usage of "like" is a preposition; it is not the "like" in a title such as "I Like Pizza a Whole Lot"). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:10, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support since "like" is a four-letter preposition and should not be treated differently than "with" or "from". Darkday (talk) 18:12, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Does the exception 162 etc. quoted apply here? Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the ngram is quite specific, shows uppercase predominance, and applies to this discussion. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Given that we've recently asserted that the far more interesting case of Dancing on My Own needs to be treated as a standard preposition, there is zero reason why we'd make an exception here, for what is an absolutely straightforward preposition. The MOS says that we don't capitalise like here, and that's what we should go with. And there's no "exception" to be applied here, because the ngram above does not show that the Just like Heaven form is unheard-of or a Wikipedia neologism, it merely shows that Just Like Heaven enjoys something of a lead, with Just like Heaven still appearing in lots of other sources. This is fairly standard, particularly for certain pop-culture topics that tend to over-capitalise, but our convention is that we continue to apply our MOS unless the usage is so overwhelmingly against as to be absurd. — Amakuru (talk) 11:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The question here is not whether the phrase "Just like Heaven" exists, but whether specific artistic works are referred to with an upper case or lower case L. The only one of these WP articles that I particularly care about is the Cure song, and in that case the usage of "Just Like Heaven" truly is so overwhelming that trying to trump the widely accepted name of the song with WP:MOS would indeed be absurd. CAVincent (talk) 05:18, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:08, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above - SchroCat (talk) 07:13, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per MOS:5 unless that whole guideline is changed to except cases like this. Re the above-cited Ngrams, a lot of house styles capitalize all words in a song title; Wikipedia doesn't, so we should consistently apply our own MOS. — AjaxSmack 17:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.