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Good articleJust Like a Woman has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Good topic starJust Like a Woman is part of the Blonde on Blonde series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 17, 2023Good article nomineeListed
August 8, 2023Good topic candidatePromoted
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 5, 2023.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that covers of Bob Dylan's "Just Like a Woman" by Manfred Mann and Jonathan King were both coincidentally released on the same day Dylan was involved in a motorcycle accident?
Current status: Good article

Misogynistic lyrics

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I have re-added the paragraphs detailing the fact that some commentators have perceived the song's lyrics as misogynistic. This is a widely held opinion...you only have to google "Just Like a Woman - Dylan - sexist" or "feminist" to see that an awful lot of folks out there hold this view. As such, I think the subject needs to be broached in the Wikipedia article. Myself, I don't believe that the song is sexist at all and those saying it is are missing the point totally, but the fact that the lyrical content of the song has been called into question is notable and should be addressed in the interest of a balanced and unbiased article.

Furthermore, the quotes in the article about this subject are clearly shown to be the opinions of respective authors, not unequivocal facts. These quotes provide not only contemporary critical appraisal of the song but important historical and sociological context, both of which are important for Wiki articles as per Wikipedia guidelines. I have removed, for the time being, the sentence about Women's groups criticizing the song because I can't find a reliable reference to support this yet. However, I know that this is true...only a few years ago, a friend of mine who was doing feminist studies at university came to me to discuss Dylan's "Just Like a Woman" since the song and it's alleged misogyny was being discussed in the course. Hopefully I will manage to dig up a reference for this because it is factually accurate.

In closing, I intend to do much more work to this article over the coming weeks and it may be that as the prose content expands, the "sexist" paragraphs will find themselves in their own section, but for now, I'll leave them where they are. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 15:41, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

--CactusBot (talk) 18:27, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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GA Review

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GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Just Like a Woman/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:32, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

This will run over the course of two days. --K. Peake 09:32, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead

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  • Why is August 18 listed as the release date in the infobox when only August is sourced?
  • Genres should be sourced directly in the body, rather than having refs in the infobox
  • "first released on his seventh studio album," → "from his seventh studio album," and place the release year in brackets instead
  • "It was written by Dylan and" → "The song was written by Dylan and"
  • The lead feels a bit out of order; writing/recording detail should be after the producer and songwriter, then release
  • Move the commercial info to the end of the second para and add more, as the song charted in multiple countries
  • "some critics have suggested" start a new sentence here to avoid a run-on
  • "allegedly wrote "Just Like a Woman" on" → "allegedly wrote it on"
  • Avoid the world claim per WP:CLAIM
  • "Dylan recorded the track" → "Dylan recorded the song" and capitalize the word Studio
  • "frequent collaborator Al Kooper along with" → "frequent collaborator Al Kooper, alongside" removing the guitarists introduction from the lead, but where are these two sourced as the ones that join them?
  • "Dylan's version of the song at number 232" → "Dylan's version at number 232"
  • "and became a hit across Europe," → "and was a hit across Europe,"
  • "It received good reviews" → "The song received positive reviews" remove the upon release part and add what was praised

Background and recording

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  • The source on the img text offers no mention of organ
  • Amended the caption and source.
  • I don't think any of the albums need commas around them
  • "Seven complete takes and multiple" → "Seven complete takes, and multiple"
  • You are using the wrong AllMusic ref for the release date; cite the album's one instead
  • Where does he write it was arguably the most commercial track?
  • Hmm, on reflection that's not a good summary of "There was a time, specifically 1966, when a song like this ... could crack the Top 40. It is certainly one of the most, if not the most, radio-friendly track on the masterful double record". Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink bass guitar
  • "Kooper on organ and" → "Kooper on organ, and" with the pipe
  • [4][12][13] why is [4] here when it does not provide any of the info?
  • "unusually for Dylan," → "unusually for him,"
  • "just can't fit"." → ""just can't fit."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences

Composition and lyrical interpretation

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  • Pipe compilation to Compilation album and remove the comma after it
  • Avoid the word claim per WP:CLAIM
  • "at work on this song" → "at work on the song"
  • "that Dylan improvised the lyrics in the studio, by" → "that he improvised the lyrics in the studio by"
  • "This exploration of" → "Dylan's exploration of" per this being a new para
  • "or some similar" → "or a similar" and is debutante really an appropriate term?
  • "Discussing whether the biographical basis of this song is important," → "Discussing whether the biographical basis is important,"
  • "The target of the song is" → "The subject of the song is"
  • "in Dylan's song." → "in "Just Like a Woman"."

Alleged sexism

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  • Again, the ref on the img text does not back up the info
  • Remove overly obvious wikilink on lyrics
  • Should the newspaper be referred to as The New York Times or was the name different back in 1971?
  • "of sexist slurs," and" → "of sexist slurs", and" per MOS:QUOTE
  • Too much quoting from the AllMusic review is overkill; try to summarize this a bit more
  • "Janovitz concludes by" → "Janovitz concluded by"

Critical reception

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  • "Asbury Park Press columnist" → "The Asbury Park Press columnist"
  • Add a space before Billboard and mention it was a reviewer of the magazine
  • Either add the staff or a writer of before Cash Box
  • "believes that Dylan" → "believed that Dylan" for consistent tense
  • "The Sun-Herald's reviewer dismissed" → "The Sun-Herald's reviewer dismissed" with the wikilink
  • Mention that Craig McGregor is from The Sydney Morning Herald with the wikilink
  • "Arizona Republic reviewer Troy Irvine" → "The Arizona Republic reviewer Troy Irvine" with the wikilink
  • "likewise, called it" → "likewise, called the song"
  • "enough to compensate"." → "enough to compensate."" per MOS:QUOTE
  • "Gray highlights the lyric" → "Gray highlights the lines"
  • "He does, however, praise" → "He did, however, praise"

Live versions and later releases

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  • First para looks good!
  • Remove pipe on compilations
  • Maybe add the release years of the compilations in brackets?
  • "of that album." → "of the album."
  • Where are the live recordings sourced?
  • "and the Deluxe Edition of" → "and the deluxe edition of" per unnecessary capitalization
  • "were released in the boxed set" → "were released in the box set" but this release is not sourced

Credits and personnel

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  • Good

Manfred Mann version

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  • The genres mentioned in the infobox are not sourced
  • Remove overly obvious wikilink on London

Background and recording

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  • "Mike Hugg and Tom McGuinness," → "Mike Hugg, and Tom McGuinness," on the img text, also shouldn't they be identified as a group?
  • The Mann-Hugg Blues Brothers → the Mann-Hugg Blues Brothers per MOS:THEMUSIC
  • "had started disintegrating." → "had started to break up."
  • "the group had begun" → "Manfred Mann had begun"
  • "early 1966 which left Jones unable to perform, the group hired" → "early 1966, which left Jones unable to perform, Manfred Mann hired"
  • "in June of that year, leaving the rest of the band" → "in June 1966, leaving the other members"
  • "also leaving the group" → "also leaving Manfred Mann"
  • "d'Abo who had recently quit his band accepted" → "d'Abo, who had recently quit his band, accepted"
  • Mention what year June was in since this is a new para
  • "the band signed a contract" → "the group signed a contract"
  • "with the group staying on that label" → "with them staying on the label"
  • "who had produced" → "who had produced for"
  • "the Who and David Bowie," → "the Who, and David Bowie,"
  • "that the Manfreds were fans" → "that the members were fans"
  • "The band had scored a hit" → "The group had scored a hit"
  • Remove commas around Kenneth Pitt
  • "much of the Manfreds'" → "much of their"
All addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:28, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Release and reception

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  • "as the group's debut single on that label" → "as Manfred Mann's debut single on their label"
  • "over who's version" → "over whose version"
  • "Bob Dylan crashed his motorcycle," → "Dylan crashed his motorcycle,"
  • "The Manfreds version was backed by" → "Manfred Mann's version was backed by"
  • Introduce who Manfred Mann is to avoid confusion with the group as a whole
  • Avoid the world claimed per WP:CLAIM
  • "at number ten" → "at number 10" per MOS:NUM
  • "It spent ten weeks on the chart." → "The song spent 10 weeks on the Record Retailer chart."
  • "to Bruce Eder of AllMusic meant that Manfreds" → "to Bruce Eder of AllMusic, meant that the other version's" but is this really the link?
  • "In Disc and Music Echo, it reached number nine," → "It reached number nine in Disc and Music Echo,"
  • Pipe New Musical Express to NME
  • "Across Europe it was" → "Across Europe, the version was" but you need a source for this
  • "reviewed both Manfred Mann's and Jonathan King's version, but preferred the Manfreds version," → "reviewed both Manfred Mann's and King's versions, but preferred the former,"
  • "which she attributed to" → "She attributed this to"
  • "she believed it would do better in the charts if Paul Jones" → "she believed the song would do better in the charts if Jones"
  • "a "fine-tempoed arrangement."" → "a "fine-tempoed arrangement"." per MOS:QUOTE
  • Add something like a writer or reviewer for Billboard and Cash Box
  • "and predicted it to reach the" → "and predicted to reach the"

Charts

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Manfred Mann version

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  • See MOS:TABLECAPTION
  • I think Lyons Maid is linked to something of the same name that is irrelevant
  • Why so many UK charts?
  • Pipe New Musical Express to NME
  • Add Billboard and Cashbox in brackets instead

I removed the NZ chart - see Talk:Rainy_Day_Women_♯12_&_35#Charts_and_positions for some discussion on that one. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Dylan version

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  • Shouldn't this be first since he is the original performer?
  • See MOS:TABLECAPTION
  • Add Cashbox in brackets instead

Notes

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  • Good

References

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  • Always cite AllMusic as publisher and wikilink solely on ref 2
  • WP:OVERLINK of Melody Maker on ref 71
  • WP:OVERLINK of Disc and Music Echo on ref 74
  • WP:OVERLINK of Record World on refs 87 and 94
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  • Good

Final comments and verdict

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Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 14:33, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(
)

Improved to Good Article status by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 15:41, 20 January 2023 (UTC).[reply]

  • Substantial article, meeting of GA criteria implicates DYK pass. Article was nominated within seven days of passing GAR. Earwigs only pings some posts that appear to just copy+paste sections of the article. QPQ has been completed. As for the hooks, ALT1 is a little squishy to me (criticized by whom?). ALT0 meets requirements, but I think it needs to be phrased to indicate that Just Like a Woman is a Bob Dylan song. I've suggested an ALT0 below; please ping me when you reply. Morgan695 (talk) 17:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Morgan695: I'm fine with that hook. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:45, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Approved for ALT0a. Morgan695 (talk) 18:52, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Onegreatjoke and Morgan695, i feel that alt0a has a bit of redundancy that can be removed. what do you two think of the following?

alt0ai: ... that covers of Bob Dylan's "Just Like a Woman" by Manfred Mann and Jonathan King were both coincidentally released on the same day Dylan was involved in a motorcycle accident?

dying (talk) 02:16, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looks fine to me. Morgan695 (talk) 02:45, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cover versions

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I'm surprised by having so few mentions of cover versions other than Manfred Mann's. Richie Havens, Jeff Buckley, Nina Simone, Joe Cocker, Stevie Nicks and numerous others have covered this song. Seems to me worth a mention, that's a pretty illustrious list even for a Dylan song. Was it a deliberate decision to omit this, or just that no one's added it? - Jmabel | Talk 04:33, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably to do with WP:SONGCOVER, I imagine. Doctorhawkes (talk) 04:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Havens played it at the Madison Square Garden in 1992 for the concert celebrating the 30th anniversary of Dylan's first album (https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/bob-dylan-the-30th-anniversary-concert-celebration-preview/2036/). I would think that alone would merit a mention. - Jmabel | Talk 18:34, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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