Talk:Julius Jones (American football)

This article needs major work.

This article needs major work. I have fixed the obvious copyright violation, dead image link, and NPOV issues, but I don't know enough about American football to fix the rest.

To fix these problems, I reverted pretty far back, so the article is once again a stub. I was bold...hopefully, not too bold. :/ --Takeel 21:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Help. I don't know how to put in pictures correctly! budcrew08

How do you add pictures?

Help. I don't know how to add pictures correctly! Budcrew08 20:59, 30 March 2006 (UTC)budcrew08

Citations

There should be a citation for the statement that his goal is to play in 16 games. It sounds like that was the opinion of the writer. Yeti man5

• At the least - there should be. Ideally though - i think it should be expunged. It drifts towards crystal balling and i just don't see how it enhances the article. By contrast - I'm not sure anyone would say "I hope to play in as few games as possible." Juan Miguel Fangio| ►Chat  20:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Murder trial

Is this the same former athlete Julius Jones who has been on death row for 20 years? John Moser (talk) 01:43, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, really odd there's no mention of this whatsoever. I'm not a football fan and don't know enough about the case but i'm guessing some bleeding heart type doesn't want the truth out there. Dude was a murderer and DNA evidence proves it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.210.87.130 (talk) 13:53, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Is it normal that someone sentenced to death in 2002 who was on death row until very recently and I think possibly in detention of some form since 1999 when they 19, can play in the NFL from 2004 to 2010? Isn't that something of more concern than someone allegedly "doesn't want the truth out there"? Nil Einne (talk) 07:27, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I was here to learn about this too after seeing Baker Mayfield with Julius Jones labeled on his helmet.--Mapsfly (talk) 03:56, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

@Bluefoxicy:, @Mapsfly:, @65.210.87.130:. See: Julius Darius Jones. Please also contribute to the discussion below on whether you think this current page should be renamed to Julius Jones (American football). Thank you. Inexpiable (talk) 11:07, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 13 November 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: move. There was overwhelming consensus for this move, and, given the topic nature of the story regarding the other Julius Jones, I don't think it is a good idea to drag the final outcome out. -- tariqabjotu 18:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

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Julius Jones → Julius Jones (American football) – Per WP:NOTPRIMARYTOPIC. A Google search of "Julius Jones" reveals the most searched Julius Jones is clearly Julius Darius Jones, which is receiving international attention especially in the build up to his scheduled execution. This particular Julius Jones is not the primary topic and should be clarified in its title. Furthermore, a look on the talk page history shows other Wikipedia users have mistaken this Julius Jones for Julius Darius Jones. Inexpiable (talk) 09:49, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

• Support. I'll also note that many of the references at Julius Darius Jones refer to him simply as "Julius Jones", so perhaps a move of that article should be discussed. 162 etc. (talk) 16:49, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
• Support, move DAB to base name.--Ortizesp (talk) 03:35, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
• Support, make DAB page. Mukedits (talk) 15:47, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
• Comment the Julius Darius Jones article was created this week, while the football player has received >100 pageviews per day as far back as pageview stats go. Is the suggestion that most of those views were looking for the inmate (or perhaps someone else, such as the football player Julio Jones)? It does seem likely that the spikes in traffic in June 2020 and November 2021 were not looking for the football player. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 02:03, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Most definitely it was people thinking this Julius Jones was Julius Darius Jones. Between June and December people on this talk page were commenting this as seen here: [1] as well as numerous edits made to the page making the same mistakes: [2], [3]. This is something that should have been addressed a long time ago. Inexpiable (talk) 08:38, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose this page has 44k views in the last 20 days, and 2,101 daily views; the other has ~220. The other was created this week, and while it might be gaining attention due to the impending execution, that's not how we title pages on Wikipedia -- primary topic is about long-lasting notability, not temporary popularity. There's no evidence that the person being executed has long lasting notability. On the contrary, available evidence suggests the football player is far more notable. Disruption should be dealt with using page protection, not by temporary moves. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 22:06, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

The 44K views are people mistaking him for Julius Darius Jones, whose case has received world wide attention since 2018. Please look properly into the case before making a rash decision that is already causing a serious BLP concern. Inexpiable (talk) 07:56, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

ProcrastinatingReader When you look at the year's pagestats [4] it's fairly obvious that people are looking for the person on death row. Well, unless a minor footballer who retired 11 years ago suddenly found themselves on the front pages of the news ... Black Kite (talk) 12:22, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Black Kite: Reasonable point; that didn't occur to me. Seems to match up with the Google Trends [5], which has spikes in search interest. I'd say the spikes suggest a popularity thing (news cycles due to a certain change in the situation) rather than long-lasting notability though, but it seems fair to say there is no primary topic here. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 13:45, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

• Support at least temporary move, we've got definite BLP concerns here given the nature of the situation. Hog Farm _Talk 22:15, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
• Support This appears to be a BLP concern. People have been mistaking trying to edit details of the murder conviction into the article since at least the end of September. View counts are unlikely to be of any use therefore, as we don't know what people were actually looking for. ActivelyDisinterested (talk) 01:25, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. We must avoid WP:RECENTISM here. The American football player is almost certainly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of the name when you view it on a historical timescale. While Julius Darius Jones may be in the news right now, there's no reason to move this page based upon a brief spurt of coverage. I do not see any WP:BLP issues with the current state of the page; the hatnote is sufficient to disambiguate between the two. And, per WP:ONEOTHER, if there are only two topics to which a given title might refer, and one is the primary topic, then a disambiguation page is not needed—it is sufficient to use a hatnote on the primary topic article, pointing to the other article. As a result, I do not see sufficient reason to move the page nor to create a DAB. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 04:39, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Nothing to do with recentism his case has been in the news since 2018, it's just picking up a little more attention now due to the upcoming execution. All the page views on this page are people mistaking this person as the clearly more notable Julius Jones which is Julius Darius Jones. I would love to know what the page views were for this person back in 2016-2017, I'm willing to bet very little. He may have been the primary topic 10 years ago but most definitely not now. It is also a serious BLP concern to not address this. Inexpiable (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

He’s apparently the primary topic but didn’t even have an article until this week? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 08:54, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

The article should have been made years ago, the fact it was only recently made is irrelevant, it is unfortunately a sign of the lack of article creation on Wikipedia these days. I'm done talking about this it is a BLP violation and should be changed, simple as. The vast majority agree. If you are not willing to even bother to look into the case history as well as the evidence and see the issue then you should not comment on the case. Inexpiable (talk) 09:21, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

What 'case history and evidence' are you referring to? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 09:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

He was sentenced 20 years ago. If that is not 'case history and evidence', I don't know what is. SteelerFan1933 (talk) 20:17, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

• Support When is the vote going to be completed?— Preceding unsigned comment added by SteelerFan1933 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

  RM discussions are closed after a week of discussion. Primefac (talk) 20:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

  @Primefac: It really should be closed now though preferably with the overwhelming consensus. The execution is looking like it will highly likely go ahead tomorrow and I think it's irresponsible for this page to still be titled as it currently is on arguably the most important day. It will also be the day this page is going to get the most views from people and this man shouldn't be mistaken as the person being executed. BLP violations need to be taken seriously, as already stated by others above. Inexpiable (talk) 21:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

  I see no BLP violation. Primefac (talk) 21:22, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

  I do. No disclaimer of (American football). SteelerFan1933 (talk) 23:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose WP:Advocacy seems to be the driving force, not assisting readers. Slywriter (talk) 22:36, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

  Thousands are getting confused between this and the Death Row inmate. I do not think putting a disclaimer that this might not be the Julius Jones you are looking for is not advocacy. SteelerFan1933 (talk) 23:15, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

  Evidence of thousands confused? The hatnote is there to direct anyone who found this page and was looking for the other. Slywriter (talk) 13:43, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

  The 44K views are people mistaking him for Julius Darius Jones. Also, people may not check the Wikipedia page, but they will see the google about section and mistake him. As you know, the hatnote cannot be seen on the google about section. SteelerFan1933 (talk) 18:41, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

• I support moving this page to Julius Jones (American football), and then redirecting Julius Jones to Julius Jones (disambiguation). None of the people listed on the disambiguation page seem to stand out enough to count as the primary topic in the long term. I also see no reason to rush this requested move—the top of the page already has a note referring to Julius Darius Jones, which should be sufficient while the move is still in discussion. Philbert2.71828 23:48, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
• Looking at the data here, I think Philbert has the right idea; there does not appear to be a primary topic, the condemned man appears to only be in the news recently, and per WP:RECENTISM, we shouldn't make such decisions on primacy based on such a small sample size. I'd be willing to make the Dab page the primary link. That seems like the best solution. --Jayron32 17:40, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.