Talk:John Philip Sousa

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rlhoman143.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:21, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Portuguese Pronounciation

Shouldn't "Sousa" be pronounced s-ô-z-a rather than s-oo-s-a (ô as in french 'eau')? It is, after all a Portuguese name, no matter the nationality of the person. 4ndrepd (talk) 21:58, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

There's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znUKyIv4Yrk Bryard (talk) 23:37, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Philip Sousa/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Yash! (talk · contribs) 14:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• I'll be done in 20 mins. — Yash ^[talk] 14:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • I'll get cracking on these in a few minutes. Go Phightins! 15:59, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Lead

• /ˈsuːsə/;[1] - the note is presented in the form of a reference. It'd be better to keep it like a note (see List of prime ministers of India)
• From 1880 until his death, Sousa began focusing exclusively on conducting and wrote marches during this time. - From 1880 until his death, he focused exclusively on conducting and wrote marches.
• Upon leaving the Marine Band, Sousa organized his own band. - On leaving the Marine Band, Sousa organized his own band.
• He toured Europe and Australia and also developed the sousaphone, a large brass instrument similar to the tuba. - He toured Europe and Australia and developed the sousaphone, a large brass instrument similar to the tuba.
• Following his tenure there, Sousa returned to conduct the Sousa Band until his death in 1932. - Following his tenure, he returned to conduct the Sousa Band until his death in 1932.

 Done Go Phightins! 16:04, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Biography

• The can be split into "Early life", "Career" and "Personal life" sections chronologically.
• There is no mention of His father was Portuguese, and his mother of Bavarian ancestry in the article body clearly. It is stated only in the lead that his father was Portugese and mother of Bavarian ancestry.
• George Felix Benkert (born 1831) - Any specific reason for inclusion of the birth year while there is no mention of John Esputa's? Either keep both or none
• When Sousa reached the age of 13, his father, a trombonist in the Marine Band, enlisted his son in the United States Marine Corps as an apprentice to keep him from joining a circus band. - At the age of 13, his father, a trombonist in the Marine Band, enlisted Sousa in the United States Marine Corps as an apprentice to keep him from joining a circus band. - this is also needs a reference
• On December 30, 1879, Sousa married Jane van Middlesworth Bellis (1862–1944). They had three children together: John Philip, Jr. (April 1, 1881 – May 18, 1937), Jane Priscilla (August 7, 1882 – October 28, 1958), and Helen (January 21, 1887 – October 14, 1975). All are buried in the John Philip Sousa plot in the Congressional Cemetery. Wife Jane joined the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) in 1907. Daughters Jane Priscilla and Helen Abert also joined DAR in 1907. Their Patriot was Adam Bellis. - On December 30, 1879, Sousa married Jane van Middlesworth Bellis (1862–1944). They had three children: John Philip, Jr. (April 1, 1881 – May 18, 1937), Jane Priscilla (August 7, 1882 – October 28, 1958), and Helen (January 21, 1887 – October 14, 1975). All were buried in the John Philip Sousa plot in the Congressional Cemetery. Wife Jane, daughters Jane Priscilla and Helen Abert joined the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) in 1907. Their Patriot was Adam Bellis. - this also needs a ref
• Several years after - how many?
  • The U.S. Marine Band website says "a time"...not sure where else to go if the U.S. Government doesn't have the information.
    • Alright. What about Several years after - Later - ? — Yash ^[talk] 04:32, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
• Sousa organized his own band the year he left the Marine Band - He organized The Sousa Band the year he left the Marine Band
• In 1900, his band represented the United States at the Paris Exposition before touring Europe. - ref?
• In 1911 they went to Australia and performed in Sydney and Melbourne (then the national capital). - ref?
• The marching brass bass, or sousaphone, a modified helicon, was created by J. W. Pepper – a Philadelphia instrument maker who created the instrument in 1893 at Sousa’s request using several of his suggestions in its design. He wanted a tuba that could sound upward and over the band whether its player was seated or marching. The sousaphone was re-created in 1898 by C.G. Conn and this was the model that Sousa preferred to use. - ref?
• Sousa lived in Sands Point, New York. - from when? till when?
• A school (John Philip Sousa Elementary) and a band shell are named after him and there is also a memorial tree planted in nearby Port Washington - A school (John Philip Sousa Elementary) and a band shell were named after him and there was a memorial tree planted in nearby Port Washington - ref?

Military service

• Sousa served in the U.S. Marine Corps, first from 1868 to 1875 as an apprentice musician, and then as the head of the Marine Band from 1880 to 1892; he was a Sergeant Major for most of his second period of Marine service and was a Warrant Officer at the time he resigned. - ref?
• During World War I, he was commissioned a Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. Naval Reserve and led the Navy Band at the Great Lakes Naval Station near Chicago, Illinois. Being independently wealthy, he donated his entire naval salary minus one dollar a year to the Sailors' and Marines' Relief Fund. After returning to his own band at the end of the war, he continued to wear his naval uniform for most of his concerts and other public appearances. - ref?

Music

• Remove the peacock term most popular
  •  Done

Operettas

• It is the worst area in the article to be frank
• Please keep something as lead in the section. Right now, it just starts away with a list and it isn't really a thing we see in GAs.
• These operettas which Gervase Hughes calls "notable" (1) also show a variety of French, Viennese and British influences. - These operettas which Gervase Hughes calls "notable" show variety of French, Viennese and British influences. - who was Gervase Hughes? ref?
• (In his younger days, Sousa made an orchestration of H.M.S. Pinafore and played the first violin on the American tour of Jacques Offenbach.) - In his younger days, Sousa made an orchestration of H.M.S. Pinafore and played the first violin on the American tour of Jacques Offenbach. - younger days? please specify the age. ref?
• The music of these operettas is light and cheerful - according to whom? it is merely a POV. And if this is according to any notable person, use "was" in place of "is". Ref?
• The Glass Blowers and Desirée have had revivals, the latter having been released on CD like El Capitan, the best known of them. - please rewrite. ref?
• El Capitan has been in production somewhere in the world ever since it was written and makes fun of false heroes. - El Capitan had been in production since it was written and made fun of false heroes. - ref?
• Still more outspoken against militarism is The Free Lance, the story of two kingdoms becoming united, which found its way to Germany (as "Der Feldhauptmann") by the time the Berlin Wall came down. - ref? this line confuses me a bit, perhaps little copyediting is needed
• Marches and waltzes have been derived from many of these stage-works. Sousa also composed the music for six operettas that were either unfinished or not produced: The Devils' Deputy, Florine, The Irish Dragoon, Katherine, The Victory, and The Wolf. - ref?
• He also frequently added Sullivan opera overtures or other Sullivan pieces to his concerts. - He frequently added Sullivan opera overtures or other Sullivan pieces to his concerts.
• He is also widely quoted saying, "My religion lies in my composition." - widely quoted? POV? - He was quoted saying, "My religion lies in my composition." - or maybe you can suggest anything better than the existing one.

Other writing, skills, and interests

• In the title Other writing, skills, and interests - Other writing skills and interests
• Sousa exhibited many talents aside from music. - "exhibited many talents" sounds odd. please rewrite
• and a great number of articles - how many? in dozens? 100s? 1000s? - ref?
• He was also active in the sport of trapshooting, taking an active role on the national stage in competitions. - He participated in trapshooting, taking an active role on the national stage in competitions. - ref?
  • This is referenced in the subsection. Go Phightins! 16:59, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Trapshooting

• He even organized the first national trapshooting organization, a forerunner to today's Amateur Trapshooting Association. - He organized the first national trapshooting organization, a forerunner to today's Amateur Trapshooting Association. - ref?
• a forerunner to today's Amateur Trapshooting Association. - a forerunner to today's Amateur Trapshooting Association (ATA).
• Some credit Sousa as the father of organized trapshooting in America. Sousa also wrote numerous articles about trapshooting. - Some credit Sousa as the father of organized trapshooting in United States. He also wrote numerous articles about trapshooting. - ref?

Writing

• In his 1902 novel The Fifth String a young violinist makes a deal with the Devil for a magic violin with five strings. The strings can excite the emotions of Pity, Hope, Love and Joy – the fifth string is Death and can be played only once before causing the player's own death. He has a brilliant career, but cannot win the love of the woman he desires. At a final concert, he plays upon the death string. - In his 1902 novel The Fifth String, a young violinist made a deal with the Devil for a magic violin with five strings. The strings can excite the emotions of Pity, Hope, Love and Joy – the fifth string was of Death and can be played only once before causing the player's own death. He was unable to win the love of the woman he desired. At a final concert, he played upon the death string. - ref?
• In 1905, Sousa published the book Pipetown Sandy, which included a satirical poem titled "The Feast of the Monkeys". The poem describes a lavish party attended by a variety of animals, but overshadowed by the King of Beasts, the lion...who allows the muttering guests the privilege of watching him eat the entire feast. At the end of his gluttony, the lion explains, "Come all rejoice, You’ve seen your monarch dine." - In 1905, Sousa published a book Pipetown Sandy, which included a satirical poem titled "The Feast of the Monkeys". The poem described "a lavish party attended by variety of animals, however, overshadowed by the King of Beasts, the lion...who allows the muttering guests the privilege of watching him eat the entire feast". At the end of his gluttony, the lion explained, "Come all rejoice, You’ve seen your monarch dine." - ref?
• In 1920, he wrote another work called The Transit of Venus, a 40,000-word story. - In 1920, he wrote a a 40,000-word story, The Transit of Venus.
• It is about a group of misogynists called the Alimony Club who, as a way of temporarily escaping the society of women, embark on a sea voyage to observe the transit of Venus. The captain's niece, however, has stowed away on board and soon wins over the men. - It was about a group of misogynists called the Alimony Club who, as a way of temporarily escaping the society of women, embark on a sea voyage to observe the transit of Venus. The captain's niece, however, had stowed away on board and soon won over the men.

Opposition to recording

• These talking machines are going to ruin the artistic development of music in this country. When I was a boy...in front of every house in the summer evenings, you would find young people together singing the songs of the day or old songs. Today you hear these infernal machines going night and day. We will not have a vocal cord left. The vocal cord will be eliminated by a process of evolution, as was the tail of man when he came from the ape. - ref?
• Sousa also was credited with referring to records as "canned music," referring to the fact that cylinder records were sold in cans. - Sousa was credited while dealing with records as "canned music," referring to the fact that cylinder records were sold in cans. - ref?
• Sousa's antipathy to recording was such that he often refused to conduct his band if it was being recorded. Nevertheless, Sousa's band made numerous recordings, the earliest being issued on cylinders by several companies, followed by many recordings on discs by the Berliner Gramophone Company and its successor, the Victor Talking Machine Company (later RCA Victor - Sousa's antipathy to recording was such that he often refused to conduct his band if it was being recorded. However, Sousa's band made numerous recordings, the earliest being issued on cylinders by several companies, followed by many recordings on discs by the Berliner Gramophone Company and its successor, the Victor Talking Machine Company (later RCA Victor - ref?
• saying,[27] "I have never been in the gramophone company's office in my life." - saying, "I have never been in the gramophone company's office in my life".[27]
• A handful of the Victor recordings were actually conducted by Sousa, but most - A handful of the Victor recordings were actually conducted by Sousa, and most
• Details of the Victor recordings are available in the external link below to the EDVR. - ref?

Other interests

• Sousa also appeared with his band in newsreels and on radio broadcasts (beginning with a 1929 nationwide broadcast on NBC). - ref?
• Later, in 1925, he was initiated as an honorary member of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, the national fraternity for men in music, by the fraternity's Alpha Xi chapter at the University of Illinois. - In 1925, he was initiated as an honorary member of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, the national fraternity for men in music, by the fraternity's Alpha Xi chapter at the University of Illinois. - ref?
• In 1922, he accepted the invitation of the national chapter to become an honorary member of Kappa Kappa Psi, the national honorary band fraternity. - ref?
• In 1952, 20th Century Fox honored Sousa in their Technicolor feature film Stars and Stripes Forever with Clifton Webb portraying the composer. Fox music director Alfred Newman arranged the music and conducted the studio orchestra for the soundtrack. It was loosely based on Sousa's memoirs, Marching Along. - ref?
• Sousa also wrote "A manual for trumpet and drum" an excellent booklet, published by the Ludwig drum company, with fine advice for the playing of the drum and trumpet. An early version of the trumpet solo to "Semper Fidelis" is included in this volume. - Sousa also wrote a booklet, "A manual for trumpet and drum", published by the Ludwig drum company, with advice for playing drums and trumpet. An early version of the trumpet solo to "Semper Fidelis" was included in this volume. - ref?
• n 1952, 20th Century Fox honored Sousa in their Technicolor feature film Stars and Stripes Forever with Clifton Webb portraying the composer. Fox music director Alfred Newman arranged the music and conducted the studio orchestra for the soundtrack. It was loosely based on Sousa's memoirs, Marching Along. - source for this? - IMBD was used but it is not a reliable source and is used only for external links
  •  Added NY Times review. Go Phightins! 20:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

References

• Linkrot. Please be sure that you use templates as references. Ref 22 needs formatting

— Yash ^[talk] 15:53, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Done up to the references point. Since I've added new refs, I no longer have a clue which one 22 is. Go Phightins! 17:17, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I'll fix it myself. No worries. — Yash ^[talk] 04:32, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

What's the status on this review? No comments in a month so checking that it's continuing. Wizardman 17:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Hey Wizardman, soon after I finished all of Yash's suggestions (at least I think I got them all), he abruptly retired. Not sure what that means as far as whether or not it passes, but that's the status. Go Phightins! 20:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

If everything's been fixed and Yash is gone, then no reason to keep this up; i'll close and pass it. Wizardman 05:29, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Go Phightins! 17:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The Oolah

In writing The Oolah, it appears that Sousa probably wrote the orchestration; see my text in progress there if you have any interest or think it a fact worth mentioning in this article. Sousa apparently did other work for Francis Wilson (actor), who is not currently mentioned in the article.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 14:51, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Philip Sousa/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

Press [show] to view →

==Composers Project Assessment of John Philip Sousa: 2008-12-21== This is an assessment of article John Philip Sousa by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. ===Origins/family background/studies=== Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? ok ===Early career=== Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok, but no compositional details ===Mature career=== Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok, but no compositional details; see summary about structure ===List(s) of works=== Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. Musical listing ok; needs bibliography of his writing. ===Critical appreciation=== Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? No significant stylistic descriptions, or critical and public reception. ===Illustrations and sound clips=== Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) Images and sound ok. ===References, sources and bibliography=== Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article has good references; a few inline citations. ===Structure and compliance with WP:MOS=== Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) ok, although I would put the works list later, and the lead is too short. ===Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review=== Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) ===Summary=== A relatively brief biography about an interesting American figure with some quirks. The basic biography is a fairly summarized view; we do not learn much about his movements, for example. It is also implied that he (or his family) lived in exactly one place during his adult life; as he was a military figure, I find this a somewhat extraordinary assertion. The biography does not integrate any information about when or why he wrote any of his works. It may be somewhat obvious why he wrote marches; it is less so why he wrote light opera -- tell us more, please. The "Other interests" information could also be integrated into the biographic section -- what stimulated his various interests (and when)? (A separate section on his aversion to recording may still be merited.) There is no significant musicological coverage, or critical and popular appreciation (especially of his non-march works -- it's not necessary to drown us with information about his marches' popularity). There is what appears to be a complete list of his musical works; what is missing is a complete bibliography of his writings (especially noting those that may still be in print or relatively widely available). The article has what appear to be solid references; it needs more inline citations.

Last edited at 19:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 20:20, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

JPS award

I wasn't sure how to mention in an edit that this article implies the JPS Foundation began issuing awards in the 1980s. But I received the JPS Award in 1978, and I think it was around long before that. Maybe someone can research this further and make a formal edit. Thanks. ````Jason Ford, El Cajon, Calif. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:8903:D100:F42B:6AFC:63AF:CFD3 (talk) 16:45, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

POTD

Picture of the day

John Philip Sousa (1854–1932) was an American composer and conductor of the late Romantic era, known primarily for American military marches. Showing great talent as a child, he mastered several instruments alongside an apprenticeship in the Marine Corps. After a period as a violinist and theater orchestra conductor, Sousa returned to the Marines for a twelve-year stint as head of the U.S. Marine Band, including two presidential inauguration balls. Later in life, he formed the Sousa Band and saw active service in World War I. He wrote a total of 137 marches, including Stars and Stripes Forever, which was designated the United States national march in 1987.Photograph: Elmer Chickering

the liberty ship

can someone with prose abilties work in the subtle reference to SS John Philip Sousa !!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dave Rave (talk • contribs) 06:36, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Edits to lead

I have been bold and done some re-wording in the lead. To me, it seemed to read rather like "From 1880 until his death, he focused exclusively on conducting and writing music, and after his death he eventually rejoined the Marine Band", so I moved the "From 1880 until his death" bit to later in the paragraph. Also, I could see no reason to say "eventually" when we know the exact year, so I changed it ti 1880, and also added that he performed on the violin in the years in between.

I also took out "who is also known as 'The March King'"" from the sentence, "He is known as 'The March King' or the 'American March King', to distinguish him from his British counterpart Kenneth J. Alford who is also known as 'The March King'", as I consider it redundant. 2001:BB6:4713:4858:8DBE:E82E:BB6:69C8 (talk) 14:28, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Controversy

Why is there no mention of any of the minstrel songs his band played? Also why no mention of his “Indian” music? Maybe make this entry look less like a list of accomplishments and more like an encyclopedia article? 173.81.120.144 (talk) 03:58, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Bavaria Wikilink

In the Early life and education section, Maria Elisabeth Trinkhaus is listed as German and from Bavaria, with the link to the present-day Free State of Bavaria. Since she lived from May 20, 1826 – August 25, 1908, shouldn't this link to Kingdom of Bavaria (1806-1918) instead? Theodore Kloba (☎) 15:38, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, good catch. Something like that I think you can just go ahead and fix without discussion. GA-RT-22 (talk) 16:41, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Columbia recordings conducted by Sousa

Regarding this: "The Columbia Phonograph Company produced 60 recordings of the Marine Band conducted by Sousa". I believe there is some disagreement about this among scholars. Sousa hated the phonograph and legend is that the Columbia recordings were conducted by someone else. Here's a source: "Sousa’s Band also made recordings for the Columbia, Edison, and Berliner labels, but Sousa very rarely conducted his ensemble during those sessions." [1] GA-RT-22 (talk) 13:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

It turns out this wasn't supported by the cited source so I have removed it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 16:03, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Classical composer?

I was quite surprised to find Sousa in the "classical composer" categories. People aren't supposed to be added to categories without some support and sources for that in the article, so it would be nice if someone could add that. GA-RT-22 (talk) 13:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

He wrote operettas, so I'd think that put him in the "classical" category, unless that's classical as distingushed from baroque, romantic, etc. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

What makes him not a classical composer? Would you say that Johann Strauss Jr. isn't one either? ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 06:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)