Talk:John Mackey (American football)

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Just heard on ESPN Radio that John Mackey died in his sleep (July 7, 2011). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.145.255 (talk) 12:29, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

The following statement appears within the John Mackey article: "Ironically, Harrison also is a product of Syracuse University." The fact that John Mackey and Marvin Harrison played for the same college team is not ironic, but coincidental. Infonomics 22:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

False information to correct

This article has some significant problems, as well as some smaller ones. I've been asked to look at this article on behalf of the NFLPA, which Mackey once served as president, and they're concerned about some inaccuracies. The major pressing issue is with Post-football career health problems.

The present claim that the NFLPA refused to pay a disability income is false. There is no verification for that claim, and one will not be found. The fact is Mackey had a pension, but it wasn't enough to cover his medical needs, and this led to the creation of the "88 plan". Besides that, I'd suggest the Marvin Harrison detail is a bit gossipy, and I believe my version is more encyclopedic. So here's my suggestion, and please note that reference #2 is a repeated citation from the current entry:

Suggestion

Post-football career health problems

Several years after retiring from the NFL, Mackey began to suffer from symptoms of dementia. His condition eventually worsened, and his family was forced to put him into a full-time assisted living facility. Although Mackey received a small pension, it was not sufficient to cover the costs of his care, leading his wife Sylvia to reach out to NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.

Once made aware of the problem, Tagliabue and NFLPA executive director Gene Upshaw responded with the "88 plan" in February of 2007. Named for Mackey's jersey number, the plan provides $88,000 per year for nursing home care and up to $50,000 annually for adult day care for former NFL players, including Mackey, suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's. Mackey died July 6, 2011 at the age of 69.

References

Markup

==Post-football career health problems== Several years after retiring from the NFL, Mackey began to suffer from symptoms of dementia. His condition eventually worsened, and his family was forced to put him into a full-time assisted living facility.<ref name=Gibeaut11>{{cite web |url=http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/thrown_for_a_loss_retired_players_sue_claim_nfl_hid_brain_damage_info/ |title=Thrown for a Loss: Retired Players Sue, Claim NFL Hid Brain Damage Info |author=John Gibeaut |date=1 November, 2011 |work=ABA Journal |accessdate=12 March, 2013}}</ref> Although Mackey received a small pension, it was not sufficient to cover the costs of his care, leading his wife Sylvia to reach out to NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.<ref name=ESPNObit /><ref name=Gibeaut11/> Once made aware of the problem, Tagliabue and [[National Football League Players Association|NFLPA]] executive director Gene Upshaw responded with the "88 plan" in February of 2007.<ref name=Teitelbaum10>{{cite book |author=Stanley H. Teitelbaum |title=Athletes Who Indulge Their Dark Side: Sex, Drugs, and Cover-Ups |year=2010 |isbn=1469962772 |publisher=ABC-CLIO |page=88 |accessdate=12 March, 2013}}</ref><ref name=Keating07>{{cite news |title=Congress questions NFL record-keeping on disabled players |author=Peter Keating |url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3139465 |work=ESPN The Magazine |date=4 December, 2007 |accessdate=19 March, 2013}}</ref><ref name=Schwarz07>{{cite news |title=Wives United by Husbands' Post-N.F.L. Trauma |author=Alan Schwarz |url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9a03e6d81131f937a25750c0a9619c8b63&pagewanted=all |work=The New York Times |date=14 March, 2007 |accessdate=21 March, 2013}}</ref> Named for Mackey's jersey number, the plan provides $88,000 per year for nursing home care and up to $50,000 annually for adult day care for former [[National Football League|NFL players]], including Mackey, suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's.<ref name=Klatell09>{{cite web |url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/28/eveningnews/main2738666.shtml |title=John Mackey: From The NFL To Dementia |author=James M Klatell |date=11 February, 2009 |work=CBS News |accessdate=12 March, 2013}}</ref> Mackey died July 6, 2011 at the age of 69.<ref name=ESPNObit/>

Thoughts on this? Because I'm working for the NFLPA, it's best that I not make any direct changes myself. Would another editor be willing to consider doing so? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:04, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

 Done, mostly because I couldn't see why not. I saw your note at WP:COIN, considered the text as it stood and the proposed text and determined your new version was better (more accurately sourced), less POV and more in line with our BLP guidelines (in terms of impact on still-living relatives). Obviously, it's an edit like any other and can be reverted. But there being no strong objection for almost 10 days, I see no reason why it should be done.

By the way, I had a problem with that second reference you included and the names didn't seem to match up. I think because it was a reprint perhaps? Not sure. Anyway, I went and found the article and added it at the end to cite the date of death - it is now citation 9. Stalwart111 07:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Stalwart! I'm not precisely sure what happened with that citation, unless you mean the one that should have been already in the article. Well, I apologize if there's any confusion, but it looks fine to me. I'd actually like to propose some other changes to this article, which I'll do in the next day or so. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 22:44, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Go for it - I'll keep an eye on it and would be happy to look at further suggestions. Well done for dealing with a COI in such a sensible fashion. Stalwart111 22:56, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposed new article draft

As mentioned above, I have additional recommendations for this article. After dealing with the Post-football career health problems section, I began to look at making improvements to a few other sections. However, the article was in sorry enough shape, and poorly sourced, that I decided to just rewrite the whole thing. You can view my new proposed draft here. My proposed updates are detailed briefly below:

• The lead paragraph has been rewritten to read better, and also to include a mention of Mackey's work as president of the NFLPA.
• The sections Career statistics and Super Bowl V from the currently article have been merged into a single section, Football career. Citations have also been added for verification.
• The section Post-playing career has been retitled NFL Players Association presidency. This section has also been expanded to include more information about Mackey's work as NFLPA president.
• Honors has been rewritten to be overall more coherent, with new citations added.
• Finally, the draft includes the Post-football career health problems section which I previously proposed and was updated by Stalwart111.
• In my userspace version I've added a "user page" template, disabled the non-free infobox photograph and the categories; if the draft is accepted, these will need to updated.

As I mentioned before, I've been asked by the NFLPA to help update this article, so I'd like for a volunteer editor to take a look at the changes and, if the draft I've proposed seems acceptable, replace the current article with it. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 17:43, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

 Done, but with a few style changes along the way. Rather than mostly L2 headings, I've split the article generally into career and post career with his super bowl appearance and playing career honours in the first section and his post career players association position and health issues in the second. I think it makes a clear distinction between the two "halves" of his story, even though many of the playing career honours happened well after his career (some only a year prior to his passing). If there are strong objections, I'm more than happy to discuss it - it was only that when putting it together there seemed like a logical way of arranging it. Other than that, it's all basically just like the draft which I thought was of very high quality and didn't need much in terms of editorial amendment.

And again, I'd like to highlight the integrity with which WWB/WWB_Too has approached his conflict of interest. Really commendable stuff. Stalwart111 07:15, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again, Stalwart! I very much appreciate you taking the time to review, and I thought your changes were very good. And your praise is very humbling as well. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:29, 2 May 2013 (UTC)