Talk:Jimmy Spencer

On 9 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Jimmy Spencer (racing driver) to Jimmy Spencer. The result of the discussion was moved.

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Added early history

I added birthplace, New Evergreen, Shangri-La, specials, Tour parts of Jimmy's history. (I worked at Shangri-La 1979-86.) Someone please check whether my unsourced-from-memory Mod Tour championship info is correct. If he didn't win in '86 (the first year without Richie) or if he won more, please add that. Barno 05:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Checked details, added 1987 Mod Tour title, verified '86. Barno 21:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kurt Busch nonpositive interaction

I edited the text "After Busch stopped at Spencer's hauler and made threats, Spencer then punched Busch." because I feel it's false. Under what circumstance is there evidence that Busch made threats? Provide a reference if there is any truth to that. Bhxinfected 09:21, 28 March 2006 (EST)

- I agree. Accounts differ on that part of the incident. Published accounts agree on the "still strapped in" part you added, as far as I recall, but I don't have anything handy but Google. Barno 19:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More history; first BGN car owner?

I added more details on 1984 Mod Tour chase, de-linked the "Jimmy Spencer (NFL)" redlink disambiguation at the top, expanded on his Busch Series and Cup history, and did bits of wikifying. Can someone check what team the 67 cited in the article (Jimmy's first Busch ride) was? I associate the number 34 with Cicci-Welliver, but I don't know if the startup that became that team used 67. Barno 23:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I found on Frank Cicci Racing that they used 67 for the one race they ran (Rockingham) with Jimmy that year. Found team had no "-Welliver" until 1991. Fixed the article. Barno 01:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 17:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citations Needed

I tagged the article for citations, I'll cite where I can. The article seems very well written and factual, just trying to keep up with Wikipedia's standards. Fickce4 (talk) 04:54, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus against moving. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 05:27, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

– An editor unilaterally created a DAB page at Jimmy Spencer today with the edit summary "More than one Jimmy Spencer". I disagree with the move and believe that the racing driver is still the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (which the edit summary doesn't appear to indicate awareness of). I could not find results for the other Jimmy Spencers with wikipedia articles on Google (only some news articles about non-notable criminals sharing the name) by searching for "Jimmy Spencer" and a search for "Jimmy Spencer american football" and "Jimmy Spencer footballer" brings only WP:ROUTINE coverage. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 09:55, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Pageviews for the last six years have the same number of views for Jimmy Spencer and Jimmy Spencer (American football). For the time being, the dab page should stay where it is. No prejudice against re-evaluating in a year or so. Paradoctor (talk) 11:10, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised to see the page views graph look the way it does. Was the American football player in the news or something between late 2018 and early 2020? (I'm trying to sanity check the numbers.) Adumbrativus (talk) 04:03, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Adumbrativus: The first spike is his 50th birthday, the third one his 51st. Beyond that, no idea. These spikes are normal for celebrity biographies, so I've learned to always look as far back as the data reach.

As regards this RM, I'm more concerned with the fact that the racing driver occupied the primary position, and therefore got some of the traffic intended for the football player. Between that and the fact that the racing driver has more than ten times as many incoming links, it is entirely unclear if there is, indeed, a primary topic. And when in doubt, we disambiguate. Paradoctor (talk) 04:50, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose first move; merge and redirect the disambiguation page Jimmy Spencer into the disambiguation page James Spencer; anyone named "James" might be called "Jimmy". BD2412 T 00:04, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree with the merge. I hate it when I type in an exact title, only to have to root through dozens of entries with all kinds of spelling variants to find what I'm looking for. We have the See also section for variant spellings. Paradoctor (talk) 01:17, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose both. There is no case for the racing driver being primary. Unsure about the proposed merge but that is another question. Andrewa (talk) 05:58, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Long-term significance. The racing driver is a winner at the highest level of his discipline and went on to have a notable career in media post-retirement, whereas the American football player had a fairly unremarkable career as a journeyman and the association footballer has not played at a higher level than a tier-two league and only did so in his first year as a pro. I'm willing to give it a year to see how the pageviews balance out, but I strongly disagree that the racing driver has no case. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 12:28, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

While long-term significance is indeed one of the considerations, I still don't think there is any case to be made. The racing driver won two races in the 1994 NASCAR Winston Cup Series, and scored a few other top ten places in that series, one pole position and one did not qualify to start. In each of 2001 and 2002 he then raced in a minor series seen as a training ground, with mixed results. He has also raced trucks and modifieds, again with unremarkable results, and has been a team owner and a commentator. The article struggles to give him one distinction as a NASCAR driver... one of the few drivers to have won a race in all three of NASCAR's top series... which ties in his NASCAR wins with his one win in the aforementioned minor series run as supporting races, and his one win in the truck series. That's IMO an artificial distinction probably invented by the promoters of one of the TV segments he co-hosted as a commentator, and one of the few... how many others? I'm sure he deserves an article and wish him and his fans well, but his long-term significance is not enough for a PT case in my opinion. Andrewa (talk) 15:07, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that the quality of the article has any bearing here. While your attack on the List of NASCAR drivers who have won in each of top three series is a compelling case for an AfD (that I may actually start out of this; it literally lists the homepage of nascar.com as a source, huh?!?) for it, it really has nothing to do with WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY for Jimmy Spencer. Pageviews, RSs and wikilinks do, and as far as the latter two metrics go, the racing driver has a very clear case demonstrating "it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term." (WP:PTOPIC) -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 20:43, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the page view stats posted above show it is clear that that Jimmy Spencer the driver is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. (While I would support a merge with the James Spencer DAB page as well, that discussion can be raised in the appropriate forum, which is not this talk page.) Frank Anchor 02:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the updated pageviews from after the undiscussed move was made are worth looking at, and certainly are beginning to tell a different story from what you're saying. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 14:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, if not in these exact words: short-term statistics are very unreliable. Arguing based on the past 10 days amounts to cherry picking, especially as we know that the full data set contradicts it. If such short timescales were relevant, we'd have to shuffle articles around every sizeable viewing spike.

As I said above, if not in these exact words: let's gather load-bearing data. If you're right, the numbers will reflect it soon enough. Paradoctor (talk) 15:03, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is it really a spike, though? It's the middle of football season and the auto racing offseason. There's no discernible reason why the racing driver would be having a "spike" right now. Like I also said above, I'm willing to give it a year for things to balance out, but this initial move did not need to be made. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 15:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I did not say it was a spike. I said a few days of data are entirely insufficient to justify a move when the whole kaboodle says otherwise.

I'm willing to give it a year for things to balance out Then there was no need to bring it up in the first place.

Lastly, if you have a problem with Frank, take it to WP:AN. Canvassing other users with your complaints is inappropriate behavior in itself. Paradoctor (talk) 16:43, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 9 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works (contribs) 19:25, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– Per WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY, [[1]] Pageviews since the RM closed in Janurary 2022 reflect that the racing driver has the most wikilinks (942) and the most mentions in reliable sources. [2] Wikinav appears to show 100% of outgoing traffic from the DAB in February went to the racing driver. Further showing that the creation of the dab page at Jimmy Spencer over the article for the racing driver was wholly unneeded (and furthermore, a content fork of the previously-existing James Spencer). ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 17:19, 9 April 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:01, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom; a hatnote should be added to the disambig page after the move. See mainspace link counts for footballer, racing driver and American football. EpicPupper (talk) 22:26, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: For a stronger consensus given the opposition at the previous RM. {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:01, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support WikiNav showing literally 100% navigation to this page is all I need. Opposes last year were because the American footballer had more significance which no longer seems to be the case, although I can't discern why. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 21:51, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Thanks Ghost for doing the research to show how the traffic to the different Jimmy Spencer’s has changed in the last year. Frank Anchor 03:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.