Talk:Jersey-variant British passport

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"Accuracy disputed" tag

I'm going to add an "Accuracy disputed" tag because the information in the article seems confused. I will remove one definite inaccuracy: in #Eligibility, "currently in Jersey". That cannot be a sufficient ground for eligibility—nor, so far as can I can see, does someone who is eligible on another ground have to be currently in Jersey in order to apply. I will also remove the Citizens Advice link, since that site does not provide (or no longer provides, I think wisely) advice on passports.

The article needs to be thoroughly revised by someone who has expertise on the subject—on "Islander status" law or at least on UK immigration law (I used to, but am out of date).

I'll ask in British passport Talk that somebody expand or separately supplement the section "Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories", as to "Islander status". Errantius (talk) 01:22, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn’t mean exactly what you think it means. The Jersey Passport Office issues British passports, after all, they just happen to be a Jersey variant.

It doesn’t mean that only “Islanders“ are entitled to “Jersey” passports, nor do they have to be in Jersey to receive them. AIUI, Islanders can apply via Jersey if they are living in any of the British Islands (related to the UK).

But other BC’s can still apply for a Jersey passport, provided they are living in the island when they apply. That privilege lapses as soon as they move away.

The main difference is that Islanders who’ve never lived in the UK for 5 years, or never had a UK grandparent will contain the islander obs. Non-Islanders naturally will not. In any case, that’s being phased out at the end of the year. (Kreb (talk) 03:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Into your capable hands! Do add necessary citations. Errantius (talk) 05:39, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Should this article be titled "Jersey-variant British passport" or "British passport (Jersey)"

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. — Amakuru (talk) 12:46, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

British passport (Jersey) → Jersey-variant British passport – Until just recently this article's title reflected the name that the passport is officially known as. Kreb moved it to the title "British passport (Jersey)" leaving the edit summary "It’s absurd to label the page “Jersey-variant British passport”; it sounds like something the States wrote". I moved it back, with the edit summary "Undoing move. The title of the article was not 'obsurd'. It reflects what this type of passport is officially called". Kreb then moved it back again, with the edit summary "this title is actually congruent with other British passport types Isle of Man, BOTs and so on". In this situation rather than engaging in a page-move war we need to follow the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. This is the start of that discussion. The following should serve as evidence that the official name for this type of passport is a "Jersey-variant British passport" and indeed the equivalents in the other crown dependencies are the Guernsey-variant British passport and the Isle of Man variant British passport:

Freedom of Information request answered by the HM Passport Office: "The Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey (Crown Dependencies) issue their own ‘variant’ British passports"
Page on the Jersey government website entitled Jersey variant British passports
Government of Jersey video on security features of the new blue passport
Jersey Evening Post: "Islanders who apply for a new passport will now be issued with a blue Jersey variant British passport, due to the UK’s departure from the EU."
Guernsey government: "Guernsey-variant British passports are issued to British nationals and should be recognised as such"
BBC Guernsey news: "Mr Taylor said the Guernsey variant differed solely in some of the text in the passport,"
ITV Channel Islands news: "Jersey and Guernsey variant British passports will be produced in a central facility in the UK from March"
Guernsey police: "Part of the work of the Immigration and Nationality Division is to issue ‘Guernsey variant’ British passports to residents of the Bailiwick. For many years the ‘Guernsey variant’ British passport has been printed in Guernsey but the UK Government now requires all British passports, wherever applied for in the world, to be printed centrally in the UK."
Isle of Man Government page on the introduction of blue passports: "Once the transition to the new blue book is complete, then all Isle of Man variant British passport will be blue"

I fail to see the counter-argument that Kreb is putting forward in their edit summaries. Wikipedia:Article titles says "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject." I therefore believe the title 'Jersey-variant British passport' is most appropriate. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 17:31, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 17:53, 17 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 02:19, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per the nominator's strong arguments backed up with sources. Vaticidalprophet 03:05, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Given the above, I have reverted a page move by an individual with a Cyrillic name (apologies, my laptop does not have a Cyrillic keyboard). Jersey-variant British passport definitely seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME for the passport (and in fact for other variant British passports). However, I'm happy to open a discussion about aligning the article names, provided it remains in alignment with Wikipedia's policies on appropriate article naming.

Additional sources, which adequately demonstrate the common usage in Jersey:

[1]
[2] "The Jersey Passport Office has confirmed that the change to British passports triggered by the UK’s exit from the EU in March 2019 will also affect Jersey variant British passport holders."
[3] "For British nationals, which includes those holding Jersey variant British passports wishing to travel to the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein (the Schengen Area), their passports must:"

Other variant British passports being referred to as such, e.g. Gibraltar:

[4] (Gibraltar Variant Passports)
[5] "Overseas territory variant passport"
[6]
[7]

Jèrriais janne (talk) 01:21, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for rename -- I didn't pay attention to talk page before doing it.

However, all other British passport pages are named "British Passport (name-of-jurisdiction)":

Ђидо (talk) 01:28, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NB: My decision to revert your change was not based on my own opinion or what's 'right', but because of the decision previously reached around a year a half ago. It's important therefore to have a discussion about this and collectively decide the best route forward. @Curb Safe Charmer: @Vaticidalprophet: pinging previous contributors.

Certainly, moving it back to "British passport (Jersey)" would follow WP:CRITERIA, because, as you point out, it would better meet the consistency criteria. However, in my view, it would not match the naturalness criteria and Wikipedia:COMMONNAME, because, thus far, all reliable sources have referred to the passport as "Jersey variant British passport". Perhaps it is a good idea to have consistency with other passport-based articles to better meet WP:Article titles, and I'd say there are two metrics to look into here: what are "variant British passports" normally called by reliable sources, and what do other countries' variant passport pages use? This is probably a wider dicussion than the post on this page, but for now I'll keep it here.

Sources are available above for Jersey and Gibraltar. Guernsey: States of Guernsey, ITV Channel use "Guernsey variant British passports", while Guernsey Press use "the variant British passport in Guernsey" and Bailiwick Express uses Guernsey passport and the Isle of Man: IoM Government Tynwald all use Isle of Man British variant British passports, while the BBC use "Isle of Man passport", "a new Isle of Man variant of the British passport" and "Manx passport"

Anguilla, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Montserrat, Saint Helena, Turks and Caicos Islands are not the same category of passports as the Jersey variant, Guernsey variant, Isle of Man variant and Gibraltar variant, because they seem to be only issued to British Overseas Territories Citizens, while British passports in Jersey are issued to British citizens who apply through Jersey's passport office (see article). For additional evidence, on Template:British_passports, these four are listed separately from the BOTC passports. Therefore, I don't think those six passports are relevant, but maybe they need to be changed as well.

Now, on the second point, on other passport title formats. Firstly, British emergency passport and British National (Overseas) passport both use the official name of the passport in recognised sources, rather than following the model "British passport (variant name)". Similar to the Jersey variant passport is the Hong Kong & Macao variants of the Chinese passports (though these are a bit different because they confer different visa rights to other countries, unlike Jersey variant passports): these articles both use the official name for these passports e.g. Hong Kong Special Administrative Region passport, rather than, for example, being Chinese passport (Hong Kong). The Danish seem to be the only other Realm which issues variant passport to people who live in territories outside the main state, but Faroe Island and Greenland passports don't have their own articles, so we can't draw naming conventions there.

In short, I think it's clear that the usage "Jersey variant British passport" is correct, and in fact Gibraltar and Guernsey should be changed accordingly. And the Isle of Man should either be changed accordingly or changed to Manx passport. Jèrriais janne (talk) 13:45, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]