Talk:Jekyll Island

Conspiracy?

I thought the Conspiracy section was, amazingly, too POV on both sides -- first it dismisses "conspiracy theories" and then starts talking about "stealing" the 1912 election... I tried to make it as NPOV as possible. Any source for the Forbes quote? How about the Wilson quote -- how do we know he was referring to the Fed? Also, all that stuff about JFK does not belong in this article -- maybe somewhere else, but not here. I tried to keep the section focused entirely on what happened at Jekyll Island and not the larger issue of the Federal Reserve, 1912 elections, etc., all of which can be found elsewhere. Afelton 15:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad you've worked on the NPOV. Bubba73 (talk) 16:39, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, Afelton and Bubba, I tried to explain both sides of the story. It's called being fair and balanced. I can appreciate you wanting to make it as NPOV as possible, but the 1912 election was directly affected by the events at Jekyll Island. It's historical fact. You say "altered." I say "stolen." The Forbes quote was found via a Google search. Wilson's "I have betrayed my country" quote came from a video I've got called "Masters of the Universe" video. Don't laugh! It's not the Dolph Lundgren He-Man movie. Download it. I can understand your point about the JFK assassination, but I have reason to believe that event happened because he was going to break up the Federal Reserve in addition to neutering the CIA and bringing troops home from Vietnam. Allow me to thank you for using the phrase "central banking," though. GeorgeC 06:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

The producer of that video is "UFO Central Home Video". Its accuracy is highly doubtful. There is no evidence of a link to the JFK assassination.. Bubba73 (talk) 14:26, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't disagree that the events at Jekyll Island may have altered the 1912 election, but think that the word "stolen" is POV -- it has negative connotations and if your definition of stolen is that a small group of people had undue influence, then just about every election would fall under that description, I think. As for the Forbes quote--I think it is a good quote and probably authentic; I found a number of web sites with the same quote citing it as "CURRENT OPINION", December, 1916, p. 382. I don't know if this is perfect validation because they all have exactly the same quote and citation style, indicating that one site is the source of it, but maybe someone has access to Forbes archives... Also, I remain convinced that, even if one accepts the JFK assassination theory, it should not be in this article -- it is about the creation of the Fed... Afelton 17:17, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

accuracy

Can someone check on the accuracy of the conspiracy section? The source of it is highly doubtful, and at one time it included the JFK assassination. Bubba73 (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Check out the reference I added to the Minn. Fed's web site -- doesn't talk about 1912 election or JFK, but the basic facts seem to be in agreement. May I take off the accuracy disputed tag? Afelton 17:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, basic facts don't seem to be in dispute. I thing that the article originally said that the 1912 presidential election was "stolen", which is stretching it. Now it says that it "influenced" it, which is OK. The link to JFK is pretty far-fetched. The UFO tape is unlikely to be a good source of accurate information.

However, it seems to me that the bulk of the former "conspiricy" section should go under Federal Reserve instead of Jekyll Island, since it is about the Reserve, not Jekyll. The fact that the meeting did take place on Jekyll certainly should be here, but the rest of it is commentary on the Reserve. (The meeting could have been anywhere.) The article is about Jekyll, not the Reserve. Bubba73 (talk) 18:07, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

PS, about 2/3 of the article about Jekyll Island is about the Fed Reserve. I think that indicates that most of the section should go somewhere else, probably Federal Reserve. I think it should say who was at the meeting, when it took place, and that it was fundamental to the formation of the Fed, but the rest of the material should be elsewhere (with a link to it, of course). Bubba73 (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I did post who was at the meeting: Nelson Aldrich, A.P. Andrews, Paul Warburg, etc. -GC

Hmmm... yes and no. I agree it is more properly about the Fed than about Jekyll Island per se. However, the history of the Fed is very long and it might make sense to have a sentence or two about it in History of Central Banking in the United States and more detail here (i.e., the status quo). I think we all agree that the JFK stuff is tangential and doesn't belong here. Feel free to edit parts you still think aren't factual; I just took a first stab at it. Afelton 19:04, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I just moved a large section of the information pertaining to the Jekyll Island Club to the Jekyll Island Club article where I believe it is more appropriate. Thanks to whoever wrote the bulk of that information, it was well-organized and quite helpful.

torq (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

G. Edward Griffin is not a very reliable source to depend upon for quotes. If someone can actually trace the alleged Forbes quote to an authentic original source, then that should be used to replace Griffin as the source. Otherwise the quote should be taken out if it can't be verfied from a more primary source. Griffin, Eustace Mullins, and several others connected with them used to run a cottage industry of faked quotes, and some of those still circulate. Unless one can track a quote down to a more dependable source, it shouldn't be treated as authentic coming from them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.139.142 (talk) 14:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know much about it. At one time the article was full of speculation and charges. If you can fix it, please do. Bubba73 (talk), 15:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

citations

Hi guys. I just noticed that there are lots of citations missing in the text. I added a "citation needed" tag where I think it's most crucial (to start with): namely the quotation of Forbes. FeelFreeToBe (talk) 02:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I moved this quote to the Jekyll Island Club article and cited the proper source.

torq (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

More info

Hi. I thought the page was pretty accurate and well done. I am fortunate enough to live on the island, and I noticed some omissions. The South Beach Park no longer has two boardwalks (that was a while ago!) with one being replaced by an observation deck. I think they did this to preserve the dunes.

Also, there is a lot of heat and light lately about controversies on the island surrounding redevelopment. The JIA (Jekyll Island Authority) has had its lease extended by 40 years, but has not extended its subleases to the island residents yet (!).

Three of the island's hotels have been bulldozed to the ground (no great loss, let me assure you) and newer and larger hotels are scheduled to be built in their place shortly.

One of the most controversial aspects is the retention of "Linger Longer Communities" to tear down the old convention center (and 1960's Jetsonian icon) in favor of larger and clubbier looking convention center and hotel-condominium project on what was once a public beach access near the original golf course. This plan will require moving some beach roads inland, making the island more like neighboring St. Simons (where the water can rarely be viewed from anywhere other than a million-dollar waterfront home). It will also limit access and parking for many of Georgia's working class vacationers who flock to the island in the summer months.

See: http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/091607/news_20070916041.shtml

(among many other articles on the subject).

There are other articles as well. I tried to add a paragraph with a balanced view on this (I am new to this, so feel free to edit it). The island will be changing fairly dramatically in the next few years.

This is nothing new, of course. Developers have had their eye on the island for years. One proposed removing the airport and replacing it with condos or a casino. I think the only thing that saved this was that some fairly wealthy people and Georgia government officials like to fly down from Atlanta in their private planes to play golf. Jekyll has a long history since 1949 as being a plaything of government officials, I'm afraid.

Other proposals were to count the golf courses as "undeveloped land" so as to increase the amount of available land for development. Another proposal was to take the soccer fields and 4H center for beachside condo development. This met with resistance, as the beach is home to nesting turtles and beach development would destroy the nesting sites. Proponents have argued that the number of turtles nesting on Jekyll is not very significant compared to nearby Cumberland Island and other, less occupied island.

In the south end (St. Andrews, or the formerly black part of the island) there are several lots that were never sold off or built upon. It is possible that these may be developed in the future.

FWIW.72.155.53.202 (talk) 22:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be good to add that stuff to the article. Bubba73 (talk), 23:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment on the article. I took all the books on Jekyll and the Georgia coast off my bookshelf and fleshed this article out piece by piece, but a few of my best books are more than 5 years old, so please revise anything that's inaccurate.

I agree that there should be a section on redevelopment, but I feel that finding citeable sources may be difficult. I know the redevelopment is a ridiculous topic, the politicians and JIA seem to be acting more in the interest of profiteering, rather than naturalism, and have grandly disturbing plans for renovation. I even read a quote from one Georgia politician who was saying that the beaches needed to undergo repair, including 'removing all those dead trees on the north end'. I also find it somewhat alarming that the relatively small numbers of sea turtles who nest on Jekyll would be considered negligable. If anyone can work this in objectively, it should be done.

torq (talk) 04:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

A reliable source is important. I live in the county but I don't know much about it except what I hear second-hand. Bubba73 (talk), 22:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Stuff removed from Jekyll island museum

Following is a few sections I removed from the Jekyll island museum article -- since they're not about the museum, really, but about the history of the island itself, the below probably should be merged into this article.

English Settlement on Jekyll Island

When General James Oglethorpe settled the colony of Georgia in 1733, he soon after claimed and named Jekyll Island in honor of his friend and financier, Sir Joseph Jekyll from England. The island had been previously known as “Ospo”, meaning island of the whales, coined by the native Americans who recreated on the island for fishing and hunting. Even though the Spanish had settled missionaries, even as close as St. Simons Island, no evidence suggests that they established one on Jekyll, perhaps only passing through. Nevertheless, Major William Horton was appointed to settle on Jekyll in 1738 in order to provide support in the form of supplies and militia, to the soldiers at Fort Frederica on St. Simons Island. On his large plantation, Major William Horton mainly supplied the troops with beef and corn and later on, beer, made in his brewery from his plantation-grown barley. Horton’s wood residence was soon burned and ravaged by the Spanish, forcing him to rebuild his home and plantation in 1742 with the uniquely native material, Tabby. A mixture of lime, oyster shell and water, this strong building material withstood the test of time and the external structure of William Horton’s home is now one of two remaining two-story colonial-era structures in the state of Georgia.

References

Founding of the Jekyll Island Club, 1886-1942

After William Horton died, another family made permanent residence on the island in 1792 - the Christophe Poulain du Bignon family. Escaping the violence and instability of the French Revolution, the duBignons, as they are now known, settled a prosperous plantation on Jekyll Island. Their main crop on this plantation was cotton, later forcing them to bring slavery practices to the island for labor and profit of their crops. John Eugene duBignon eventually became a founding member of the Jekyll Island Club and had the first house built in 1884 in what is now known as the historic district. John Eugene sold the entire island, with the help of his brother-in-law who knew all the right people in the prestigious Union Club of NY, to The Jekyll Island Club for $125,000 on February 17, 1886. "The richest, the most exclusive, the most inaccessible" club in the world, first opened its doors to the northern wealthy looking for a relaxing and serene winter getaway, in January 1888.

It takes a man with a strong will and compassion for others in order to cater to the wealthy at the Turn of the Century. The man for the job at the Jekyll Island Club was most certainly Ernest Grob, who interestingly enough also served as superintendent of a resort club in Bar Harbor, Maine. He served the club for an astounding forty-two years, finally relinquishing his exhausting job to his assistant in 1930 in order to "rest for the remainder of [his] life". After Grob's retirement, Michael L. De Zutter, hired by the Club, soon took over with many members commenting that the club was just "never the same" , including Marian Maurice who had been a club member since it's inception. Many employees left after Grob retired, as did many club members with a 34% decline in membership in 1933, although the club members' reasons were many. When Grob used DuBignon Cottage for his office and residence, it was referred to as the "Superintendent's Cottage" as seen in the photo below. Otherwise, when it was not the private residence of the DuBignons or Grob, it could be rented by an overflow of club guests and was referred to as "Club Cottage". Club Cottage is still standing today and is often one of the stops on the Passport to the Century Tour, offered by the History Center.

References

The Jekyll Island Club Members

The Jekyll Island Club was a social circle of the most elite and most wealthy men who called cities New York, Boston, Chicago and Philadelphia, home. Only 1 original member of the Jekyll Island Club was from the south. Many of the Jekyll Island Club’s members were not only active, high contributors to national and international societies in their day, but many are people with whom we still associate modern events and businesses. When one thinks of the late 19th century, turn of the century and early 20th century, themes that come to mind are the industrial revolution, industry monopolies and large financial corporations. These are exactly the people who were members of the club, making their fortunes in locomotives, lumber shipping, financing, real estate, and oil. Some members whose names and family contributions, which are still recognizable today, are:

• J.P. Morgan
• William H. Rockefeller*
• Joseph Pulitzer*
• Cornelius N. Bliss
• Marshall Field
• Henry Hyde
• William Kissam Vanderbilt
• Lloyd Aspinwall
• Walter Jennings*
• Dr. George Shrady*
• Richard Teller Crane*

The * indicates members who became known as the “Cottage Colony”, the group of club members who built private cottages instead of taking advantage of the accommodations provided by the Jekyll Island Clubhouse. Originally, the Cottage Colony consisted of 16 club member cottages and 2 employee cottages; today only 11 club member cottages remain.

We stayed at one of the cottage sitting to the right of the Winnie p. Allen (talk) 01:24, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Continued from other posting. We were there in 1957 before the birth of our 1st child. We went with my older brother and his wife. It was wonderful place. Please keep us posted as what is happening at and on the island. Thank you. Winnie p. Allen (talk) 01:29, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

References

How Jekyll Island became a State Entity

In 1947, the state of Georgia purchased Jekyll Island, making it accessible for all to enjoy. Although Jekyll Island was first sanctioned as a state park, the Jekyll Island Authority was formed in 1950, becoming a self-sustaining, but state governed, entity. The Jekyll Island Museum is thus under the direction of the Jekyll Island Authority and all tour fees and museum store purchases go directly back to the museum for its preservation and conservation efforts throughout the historic district.

References

Minor error

Theres a minor incovenience here: "At the end of November 1910, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich and Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury Department ([Special Assistant of the National Monetary Commission)] A. Piatt Andrew, and 6 more of the country's leading financiers (Frank Vanderlip, president of the National City Bank of New York, Henry P. Davison, senior partner of J.P. Morgan Company, and generally regarded as Morgan’s personal emissary; and Charles D. Norton, president of the Morgan-dominated First National Bank of New York. Joining the group just before the train left the station were Benjamin Strong, also known as a lieutenant of J.P. Morgan; and Paul Warburg, a recent immigrant from Germany who had joined the banking house of Kuhn, Loeb)

Now no matter how many times I count, I get only five persons from the brackets section. Now of course I would've fixed this problem myself, but naturally can't start guessing who this missing person is. So to anyone who knows either add the missing person or if there were only five more then the correction could be made in that direction (besides, to my knowledge there were 10 participants). Anyways, since I couldn't be sure, I can't edit this error in any direction. So anyone who knows, could you please correct this matter. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.153.36.199 (talk) 17:01, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

You're right. I just changed the number to 5, consistent with the list that follows. --Christofurio (talk) 02:30, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

tl:dr Where did the reference link for this information go? "On November 5–6, 2010, Ben Bernanke stayed on Jekyll Island to commemorate the 100-year anniversary of this original meeting.[9]" 96.254.108.172 (talk) 04:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)@PCMcGee on twitter

External links modified

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