Talk:Death of Jeffrey Northrup

This article was nominated for deletion on 22 April 2024. The result of the discussion was keep.

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Jeffrey Northrup.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Brigading attempt from subreddit

Heads up to editors, there's an attempt to influence the contents of this article stemming from a Reddit thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/comments/1dhm8fm/updating_the_umar_zameer_wikipedia_page_to/

Their goal is not necessarily bad, but may draw users who will attempt to add bias. 2605:8D80:6C0:E5F0:C474:721C:C740:8A8F (talk) 05:35, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, will keep an eye on it. That being said, the article could use some work. I'll see what I can do. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 15:15, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking frankly, I do not know that an article detailing a specific LEO's death on its face is noteworthy enough to warrant an article. Is this commonplace for other LEO deaths elsewhere on Wikipedia?

Salient details of the LEO's death could be adequately captured in an article addressing Crown v. Zameer which resulted from this event. It would provide a factual record to better illustrate the event at hand from relevant angles instead of a singular page regarding a singular LEO's involvement in it. Himay81 (talk) 16:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like this stance is summarized adequately by the site's guidelines on notability.

Wikipedia:Notability (people)#People notable for only one event Himay81 (talk) 16:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Himay81: Consensus for notability has already been discussed and established at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeffrey Northrup. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 18:39, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can and do appreciate that discussion already (I had already read it), but the majority of that discussion advocated for renaming the article (more related to the legal case) and focusing the article on the legal case, not the officer themself. Which is why I sought to bring that point up here. Himay81 (talk) 18:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Himay81: In that case, it would be best to open a move request. Instructions for doing so are at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Controversial. As for the content, the article isn't protected so you should be able add what you feel is necessary. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 19:05, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ARandomName123 Thank you for the feedback. I will look into those options then. Himay81 (talk) 19:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it helps, I've produced a rough draft of a R. v. Zameer article. It's built using an AI article generator that's been fed all the relevant articles I could find on CBC's website, as well as the judge's final verdict. The article also contains direct quotations from various sources.

You'll find the article at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12G_Xd12Wf239zJmka4H3f8F1BCs-ild5?usp=sharing

The text conversion of the CBC articles and judge statement is included in a separate file.

Unfortunately, NotebookLM doesn't allow for copying the footnotes, so they would have to be redone.

I'd check the article to make sure that no erroneous details were added, and also add other sources (trial transcript, additional newspapers, etc.) to improve the quality of the article. Canadianlegalguy (talk) 15:19, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 17 June 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 22:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Jeffrey Northrup → R. v. Zameer – The event of Northrup's death is fundamentally the core issue surrounding the trial of Crown v. Zameer, which realistically should be the primary topic on this matter. This topic should fundamentally be about that with the inclusion of Northrup's death and additional details in their totality, not a cursory discussion around just the LEO's death. That presents an undesirable bias centered on the LEO and not on any other substantial issues produced by and/or resultant of the death/trial (notably criticism of the Crown's arguments and theories by the judicial system, possible evidence of collusion admist Crown witnesses, jury instructions, etc). The fact that the trial has concluded, there exists extensive reporting through both legal filings and multiple media sources to substantiate a much more thorough representation of the event described and its greater consequences (as evidenced by judicial and jury outcomes and public discussion). Himay81 (talk) 19:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 23:44, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Ontario, WikiProject Death, Canadian Wikipedians' notice board, and WikiProject Law Enforcement have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 23:44, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The man's death is the salient feature of the case. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:52, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do the article move. Jeffrey Northup's career doesn't have anything of note that would make sense as its own Wikipedia article. (See the Wikipedia criteria for notability.) The trial itself, however, was a major case that was covered for several years across most Canadian newspapers and publications, including the Toronto Star, Toronto Sun, Globe and Mail, CBC, etc. Canadianlegalguy (talk) 20:35, 25 June 2024 (UTC) — Canadianlegalguy (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I respectfully disagree. The officer's death is unfortunate, but the miscarriage of justice (as even noted by the presiding judge in the trial) against the accused is far more salient and important in the grand scheme of things than the officer's death. Himay81 (talk) 16:50, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But none of it would have happened if Northrup had not been killed, so, as I said, his death was the salient factor. Everything that came after was due to his death. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:58, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The death was the catalyst for a far greater and more important case. The equivalent of this scenario would be having a Wikipedia page dedicated solely to George Floyd's life with a single paragraph describing the police's initial testimony (which basically placed all fault on Mr. Floyd) without providing the larger context with the trial itself, the police's response, and the media's response.

At the very least, a separate R. v Zameer page should be created, and all the salient facts from the trial should be included here. The current page here offers the impression that Mr. Zameer's testimony and police testimony have equal credibility, whereas the trial itself (and the judge's verdict and apology) provided otherwise.

However, including all the details about the trial in the "Death of Jeffrey Northrup" page would make this page feel unwieldy... which is why the integration of this page into a proper R. V. Zameer page makes more sense. Canadianlegalguy (talk) 15:12, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. The article as it is is about the death of the police officer. Nothing much about the trial has been written into the article that may warrant a change in the article title. – robertsky (talk) 15:15, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.