Talk:Jean Baptiste Charbonneau

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"Carpet bombing" with {{fact}} tags

Hi Jlittlet, per your request I went ahead and started tagging the things I think need to have citations. I stopped in the middle though, because as you can see, basically everything should be cited. It looks like you've got a handful of excellent references but it really helps future editors if everything is cited in-line, especially since the references were added after the article was written. (Not to assume bad faith, but are you sure what you added isn't a "further reading" section?) The gist of the guideline about this is here. If you look at an article like Oregon Supreme Court, which was rated as a Good Article, you can see that just about every sentence is cited. This is especially helpful when there are so many references, like that article has. If the Charbonneau article is to be expanded and perhaps someday even nominated for GA status, it's best if all the existing information is cited. Otherwise it's really unclear exactly what those books are supposed to be citing. If an article is really short and unlikely to be expanded, I think it's OK, as it says in WP:CITE, to use general references: "Articles can be supported with references in two ways: the provision of general references – books or other sources that support a significant amount of the material in the article – and inline citations, that is, references within the text, which provide source information for specific statements." The trend, at least for WikiProject Oregon articles, is to cite specific statements, however. Thanks! Katr67 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not every sentance needs a citation, but certainly more need citations than have them currently.--Cúchullain ^t/c 07:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Refs for expansion

http://www.simplysharing.com/charbonneau.htm reprint of Oregonian story.
http://www.traveloregon.com/Explore%20Oregon/Eastern%20Oregon/Attractions/History%20and%20Heritage/Jean%20Baptiste%20Charbonneau%20Grave%20Site.aspx
http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/inside/jchar.html
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3553, Find-A-Grave Danner
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Charbonneau&GSsr=121&GRid=2322&, Find-A-Grave Fort Washakie

Katr67 (talk) 20:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Find-a-Grave is not considered a reliable source (RS).Parkwells (talk) 20:14, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Add a book to the further reading

I'm interested in adding a book to the further reading. It is Museum of Human Beings by Colin Sargent. It is a fictional account of Jean Baptiste Charbonneau's life, but based on a lot of fact. After reading the book, I felt that adding it to the reference section would give people who prefer reading fictional accounts of lives. His books cite [1]gives a fuller explanation of his book. I'm not trying to get this on here to advertise the book, but to help provide more information on Charbonneau. After some discussion with Katr67, I learned that someone else had tried to place this book on the cite before I had tried to. I didn't know that, and am just a reader trying to do a service to other book and Jean Baptiste Charbonneau lovers. Thanks, Mtwomey08 (talk) 17:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The text in this section uses words that connote an advertisement. If the Wikipedia purpose when presenting accurate biographical information is to run the gamut of every possible approach to a subject, then Museum of Human Beings, which I have read, is not up to the task. It includes wild, undocumented speculation about Charbonneau's life and persona, including his years spent in Europe where he is presented as a sexual partner. The book is a fine novel, but for the purpose of history it does not work -- and clearly is not based on fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.59.187 (talk) 19:25, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Sacajawea" by Anna Lee Waldo

I removed this from the "See also" section:

Read also 'Sacajawea' by Anna Lee Waldo. This is a very accurate depiction oof the life of Jean Baptiste Charbonneau. It is his half-brother Toussant that is buried next to Sacajewa; having appropriated his brothers identity for his own he was baptised by the Mormon church as 'Baptiste'; hence the name on the grave marker. Jean Baptiste is buried in Oregon near Jordan Valley. After age 18 he never saw his mother again.

That's the wrong place for a book review, and the anon. contributor gives no justification for why it should be considered "a very accurate depiction" of the life of this article's subject. Is it? Or is it some half-baked original research that reads well? I've no idea, never having seen the book. --Kbh3^rd talk 03:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On the subject of Charbonneau's life, a "very accurate depiction" is simply impossible, and there's a good chance anyone suggesting s/he can provide one is joining the long tradition of filling in the tantalizing holes in this story with dramatic fantasy. The actual historical record of JBC is really thin. You may benefit from reading Michael Ritter's biography, as its research clearly lays out all the known history of the subject.

In this particular case, Waldo's book is a historical novel, published in 1984 by Avon Books. It may represent the spirit of Sacagawea and JBC's lives, or it may represent a more modern fantasy of the lives of Native Americans; the author's foreword, in which she mentions that her children's names include Skookumchuck and Hee Hee Tum Tum, strongly suggests the latter possibility.

I haven't read it either, but I've heard very good things about it -- as a novel, though, not as a work of scholarship. Finn-jd-john (talk) 15:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion for improvement

I would love to see more diverse sourcing for this article. As it stands, it appears to be mostly based on Michael Ritter's book. This is because his book is the most scholarly available based on his academic credentials, i.e., an M.A. in history and three years of doctoral study at UC San Diego under Dr. Earl Pomeroy, a long-standing scholar in the history of the American West. I have not read this book, but it's published by Booksurge, which is a sister service to Amazon's CreateSpace self-publishing print-on-demand service; P.O.D. is not usually the first choice of academic writers. Most of the info I've seen seems to be pretty solid, and citing to self-published books is by no means a bad thing, but I would argue that using one as the backbone of a Wikipedia article undermines its cred. Still, since no other scholarly work on Charbonneau exists, Wikipedia can either erase its Charbonneau summary or continue to inform the world as it has done. Moreover, most of the text in the article IS taken from Mr. Ritter's book, though much is not appropriately referenced to his text. Finn-jd-john (talk) 15:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree and am looking for more reliable sources, or more citing to the ones that exist.Parkwells (talk) 19:28, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Children depicted on U.S. currency

In the article about John Baptiste Charbonneau, the author says: "He is the 2nd youngest child ever depicted on United States currency." I have done some Googling, but I can't find any more information about children depicted on U.S. currency. I reference to this information would be helpful. Aug. 18, 2013 Mspotatahead

The reference is in the [2] Legacy and honors section. Virginia Dare was the first and youngest depicted on U.S. currency. --Wlmg (talk) 19:59, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There have been a lot of children depicted on US stamps, but I only know of one child ever portrayed on US currency and that is the infant being held by Sacajawea below. The babies name is...Jean Baptiste!
File:Sacagawea_dollar_obverse.png Kumioko (talk) 21:04, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Virginia Dare was the first child on a U.S. coin here's another source[3]. I hope the United States Mint is an acceptable WP:RS. --Wlmg (talk) 22:51, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I made more cleanup edits that he was the 2nd child to appear on U.S. currency, this much is unequivocal. --Wlmg (talk) 23:59, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Photograph

Why is the photograph for Jean Baptiste Charbonneau and James Beckwourth showing the same man?

There is obviously an error here but I don't know if the error is on Charbonneau's page or Beckwourth's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThreeSmileIsland (talk • contribs) 17:28, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's Beckworth. I've removed the photo from this article pending more research. Valfontis (talk) 19:32, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

1 Dollar (United States), front.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:37, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Death year inconsistency?

This article ambiguous asserts this man died in 1866 while also including a photograph of his memorial stone that says, carved in granite, he died in 1885. Which is it?

T 2600:4040:5AEF:B400:5B1C:35BA:CFF7:C58 (talk) 11:12, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]