Talk:Jay Estate

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Merger proposal

I propose merging the Jay Heritage Center article into this article. The Jay Heritage Center may not meet Wikipedia's notability standards. Furthermore, its article contains much information that is not actually pertinent to the Center, but rather to John Jay or the 1838 Peter Augustus Jay House; a good deal of that information is duplicated here and some information contained there would well be included in this article. Ergo Sum 04:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ergo Sum, Thanks for your interest in the Jay Heritage Center, the 1838 Peter Augustus Jay House and the Jay Estate (also known as Jay Property). We are grateful for your efforts to make our Wikipedia presence more accessible especially since the history we are preserving is so important!

The Jay Heritage Center, the 1838 Peter Augustus Jay House and the Jay Estate (also known as Jay Property)are all 3 very different things but related to each other like Russian nesting dolls. JHC is a non-profit that owns the 1838 Peter Augustus Jay House and its surrounding .75 acres outright (as well as an additional non-Jay related 1907 Carriage House and .75 acres around it). The 1838 Jay Mansion which is notable for its outstanding Greek Revival architecture and history was not John Jay's house but was built on the footprint of Jay's original home, a 1745 farmhouse called "The Locusts"; pieces of the 1745 house were incorporated into the 1838 structure. The house lies within the Jay Estate landscape (23 acres in entirety) which is notable for being the land that John Jay grew up upon with its original viewshed towards Long Island Sound (immortalized in a prominent Guy Pene Du Bois mural); the land itself also has the highest archaeological importance. This 23 acre parcel of land and everything on it is also operated and maintained by JHC even though JHC does not own all of it. That is why they all have separate Wikipedia entries. It is a unique relationship and to our knowledge the only configuration of its kind among New York State historic sites as JHC is not "friends" group but rather a distinct entity with both ownership rights and operating responsibilities.

Hope this is helpful. I can understand why you might suggest merging the sites but that would likely confuse these legal distinctions that have taken many years to clarify. Given your interest in NY History and the law, it would be a pleasure to have you come visit us! PS We believe our organization does meet Wikipedia's notability standards - so does NY State Governor Andrew Cuomo who in addition to adding permanent NY State Path Through History signage on the parkways for the Jay Heritage Center in May 2014 has awarded JHC not one but two preservation grants totaling $891,056 in just the last 9 months Minard38 (talk) 12:34, 5 September 2015 (UTC) Minard38 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minard38 (talk • contribs) 12:32, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Minard38: Thank you for your reply. I have visited the Jay House in the past and appreciate your efforts both on and off Wikipedia to preserve and publicize the historic grounds. That being said, a complex interrelationship between the historic structures and its overseers does not qualify an organization as being of sufficient notability to occupy a presence on Wikipedia as a standalone article. I do believe that much of the information can be condensed into a single article. However, I recognize that the notability of the Jay Heritage Center is contested and, in my opinion, is borderline. Therefore, as an inclusionist Wikipedian, I should be inclined to preserve the article in its own right.

However, in the future, please do not remove merger proposal templates unilaterally, exceedingly quickly, or due to a vested interest in the subject; the template I placed was up for less than 24 hours. This abridges discussion without cause and is antithetical to the nature of Wikipedia. It will also cause great displeasure among other editors.

Happy editing and keep up the good work. Ergo Sum 18:21, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Ergo Sum and Minard38: FWIW, I agree that a merger would be appropriate here. There is significant overlap and redundancy between the articles, and we should be trying to present readers with a clear, concise picture of this subject (of which JHC is a part). No matter how unique the partnership, or how much grant money is received, JHC is sill best presented and understood in the context of the property that defines them. I agree the organization marginally passes WP:GNG but I am unconvinced that it is best covered as a separate article due to the amount of redundant background information that is needed to present the topic. The argument that they are "related to each other like Russian nesting dolls" is actually a pretty persuasive argument for merger - a well-constructed article hierarchy of sections and subsections would be very similar to nesting dolls. I would support re-instating the proposal at least, since it was removed by an editor with a clear WP:COI after too brief a time. Antepenultimate (talk) 14:24, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for Jay Heritage Center and Peter Augustus Jay House please

GPS coordinates to 40 57.438 N 073 -42.365 W

—{{subst:Minard38}}

The coordinates in the article appear to be correct. I've changed the display to d/m/s rather than decimal degrees, but the format you've given (degrees & decimal minutes) is not, in general, used on the English Wikipedia. Deor (talk) 13:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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