Talk:JP Duminy

Abbreviation in article title: JP, J.P., J-P, J. P., J.-P., and so on

Hi all. One of our fellow editors has raised a question about the use (or non-use) of full stops, hyphens and spaces in this article about a biography of a living person. Should the article title follow WP:COMMONNAME? If so, what is J-P's "most commonly used name"? There are multiple abbreviation space, full stop and hyphen possibilities for his hyphenated first name. Should J-P's personal preference about the presentation of his first name also be considered? --Shirt58 (talk) 09:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

By analogy with J. K. Simmons and correct punctuation I have moved the article to include punctuation and spaces.--ukexpat (talk) 13:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

On reflection, the J. K. Simmons analogy doesn't apply as this is a hyphenated name, so I have moved it back.--ukexpat (talk) 14:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

• IMHO, the article should be a Jean-Paul Duminy, with redirects from J-P Duminy, J. P. Duminy (as per J. K. Rowling) and Jean Paul Duminy for those who forget the hyphen (✉→BWilkins←✎) 18:14, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Given the hyphen, I think this title should be Jean-Paul Duminy with redirects, per BWilkins. --Old Lanky (talk) 20:07, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Follow the sources, per WP:COMMONNAME, thus JP is correct. See also the same topic at Talk:AB de Villiers#AB or A.B. or A. B.? Roger (talk) 20:23, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

• This one is more difficult than the AB de Villiers discussion, but I would either have the article at "Jean-Paul Duminy", or remain here at "JP Duminy". It is stylised without a dash by both Cricinfo and CricketArchive when abbreviated, and JP is certainly more common than Jean-Paul, but the latter is still well known enough for the article to be so entitled. Lacking any real certainty, I'd leave it here. Harrias ^talk 23:02, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
• if there's an RM please add me to Move to Jean-Paul Duminy or J.-P. Duminy, though note "J. P. Duminy" in Google Books means a different J. P. Duminy, per also Jon Gemmell The Politics of South African Cricket 2003 Page 82 "Test cricket between England and South Africa was now considered to be an Anglophile 'family' affair. Indeed, no Afrikaner played for South Africa until Jacobus Petrus Duminy in 1927/28,.." In ictu oculi (talk) 20:38, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
• as per WP:COMMONNAME only JP Duminy (my first preference) or Jean-Paul Duminy are acceptable, in my opinion. He doesn't use periods so neither should we. The-Pope (talk) 01:54, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Seems no one objects to full name, I hope after The-Pope's comment no one will violently object if this now goes on the RM board. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:26, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa (talk) 20:16, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

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JP Duminy → Jean-Paul Duminy – per Talk-page comment by BWilkins and other discussion and WP:PRIMARY in printed sources and WP:PRECISION. In Google Books "J. P. Duminy" almost always, if not always, 1,560 results refers to Jacobus Petrus Duminy vice chancellor of Cape Town University during the student protests of the 1950s, author of South Africa's Dilemma: What is the Way Out? 1961, and himself doubly notable as the first Afrikaner to play Test cricket after WWI. JP Duminy can remain redirecting to the 1984-born cricketer, but J. P. Duminy needs turning into a hndis. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:26, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose A clear cut case of WP:COMMONNAME. Hard to think of a better case really. Routinely referred to as "JP". If JP Duminy continues to redirect to the 1984-born cricketer, I am at a loss to see how how the renaming addresses your concerns re: confusion with Jacobus Petrus Duminy. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 03:27, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

In that the article itself will be at Jean-Paul Duminy. The redirects are of very little importance since hatnotes exist. Yes you're right in newspaper sources the initials outnumber the full name, but then J. P. Duminy is more common for both men than "Jacobus Petrus" (almost never, his WP:COMMONNAME is also J. P. Duminy) or Jean-Paul. There are a number of possible solutions here. I don't exclusively support BWilkins suggestion as the only possible resolution. But the build up of Talk invited a RM to get broader input - particularly as the other cricketer Talk:AB de Villiers is also listed at WP:RM. If it's another result to the proposal that's fine too. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:34, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose per Mattingbn. Although I don't think this is quite as clear cut as the AB de Villiers case. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:46, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. As already noted, the clear common name is JP Duminy (can provide evidence if necessary). If you agree that "JP Duminy" should continue to redirect to this subject even if moved then you are agreeing he is the primary topic of "JP Duminy". If J. P. Duminy should be a dab, so be it, but that should [not Added after IIO's reply. Jenks24 (talk) 11:20, 6 November 2012 (UTC)] affect the title of this article. Jenks24 (talk) 10:30, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi, as above I don't particularly care about the result of the RM, merely making the Talk open for others (like yourself) to input. But since you ask yes, evidently, there's no evidence in GBooks that J. P. Duminy was ever, even once, spelled JP Duminy, that more hip-hop style punctuation applies 100% to the 1984 cricketer. That is perhaps the one thing about this that is straightforward. I note that the Telegraph.co.uk uses dots for J. K. Rowling and not for J P . It'd be interesting to see what a newspaper with a consistent MOS did. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:05, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose Common-name is JP. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 10:22, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Roger (talk) 10:37, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.