Talk:Idrottsparken (Sundsvall)

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On 5 December 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from NP3 Arena (Sundsvall) to Idrottsparken (Sundsvall). The result of the discussion was moved.

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Requested move 5 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. to Idrottsparken (Sundsvall), chosen per WP:OTHEROPTIONS as there is greater implied consensus for the original nomination. There is also some support for Sundsvalls Idrottspark, so if desired another discussion can be opened for that title. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 15:46, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

NP3 Arena (Sundsvall) → Idrottsparken (Sundsvall) – According to WP:FOOTBALL, unsponsored names should be used where possible. Sponsored names should only be used if the stadium has only ever been known by a sponsored name. This is not the case with NP3 Arena, as it was known as "Idrottsparken" for over 100 years (1903–2005 and 2017). Mattias321 (talk) 22:02, 5 December 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 20:27, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME: "(Wikipedia) generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (...) in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources". This request cites no such sources. 162 etc. (talk) 00:14, 6 December 2021 (UTC) Edited to add: NP3 Arena is unambiguous and is most likely the best name for the article. 162 etc. (talk) 17:51, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per longstanding consensus that we do not use sponsored names for football grounds. Number 5 7 12:19, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 18:56, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per N57; we do not use sponsored names. Giant Snowman 18:58, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The assertion that "we do not use sponsored names" does not appear to be supported by any Wikipedia policy. 162 etc. (talk) 17:43, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:Consensus is a policy. It's impractical to have a naming guideline for every set of articles, but many discussions over the years have resulted in this consensus (and its listing here). Cheers, Number 5 7 19:50, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll note that per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS, "unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope". In this case specifically, football stadiums are not automatically exempt from WP:COMMONNAME. 162 etc. (talk) 03:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But in this case, "Idrottsparken" is a very well-established name for the stadium. It's not reasonable to move the page everytime a new sponsor comes along. // Mattias321 (talk) 10:37, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please cite reliable English-language sources that confirm the common name "Idrottsparken". 162 etc. (talk) 17:19, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Since GIF Sundsvall is a rather small club in an international context, there are very few English-language sources in general (StadiumDatabase is one example). Sundsvall Municipality and GIF Sundsvall include both names (Idrottsparken and NP3 Arena). It is mentioned in several newspapers as well (Aftonbladet, Aftonbladet, Expressen and Sundsvalls Tidning are a few examples). Moreover, it is worth noting that we, when it comes to football stadiums in Sweden, have articles called Nya Parken (not Platinumcars Arena), Stadion (not Eleda Stadion), Påskbergsvallen (not Varberg Energi Arena), Eyravallen (not Behrn Arena) etc. I don't see why Idrottsparken (NP3 Arena) should be an exception. This is also the case in general (as Number 57 mentioned), with well-known examples such as Westfalenstadion (Signal Iduna Park) and City of Manchester Stadium (Etihad Stadium). // Mattias321 (talk) 18:51, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

At Talk:City of Manchester Stadium#Requested move 28 April 2019, many editors challenged the validity of the so-called consensus cited by User:GiantSnowman and User:Number 57. Ignoring WP:COMMONNAME in favour of a title that is more acceptable or convenient to editors is a disservice to Wikipedia readers. 162 etc. (talk) 21:24, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, love to cite a discussion from nearly 3 years ago! We have always used the official name rather than the common name for football stadiums, see Boleyn Ground (which is far better known as 'Upton Road') as just one example. Giant Snowman 21:58, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I refuted your Boleyn Ground analogy at this RM last August. In that discussion, you argued unsuccessfully in favour of the title "City of Coventry Stadium" - which is neither an official nor a common name for Coventry Building Society Arena. I understand if you have a personal dislike of sponsored stadium names - many do - but we as editors need to follow policies, not personal biases. 162 etc. (talk) 23:14, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Long-standing consensus. Robby.is.on (talk) 22:01, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per WP:NOTADVERTISING, the sponsored name should not be used and as Mattias points out, Idrottsparken is the common name. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 23:17, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support moving to Sundsvalls Idrottspark or nomination target - I feel the move from Sundsvalls Idrottspark to Idrottsparken (Sundsvall) should have been discussed first before moving to the proposed target back in 2017. Also is it recommended to make Idrottsparken a dab to reflect on this (former name) and Nya Parken as both have "Idrottsparken" in the articles? Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 10:25, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support moving to Sundsvalls Idrottspark, as an unsponsored name (which satisfies WP:NOTADVERTISING and the WP:LOCALCONSENSUS for football grounds, and most non-US sports grounds). Sundsvalls Idrottspark seems neater than Idrottsparken (Sundsvall) to me. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:07, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Even though "Sundsvalls Idrottspark" might seem neater than "Idrottsparken (Sundsvall)" (or "Idrottsparken, Sundsvall" if your prefer comma instead), I'm not sure that it is more correct. The stadium is more often referred to as "Idrottsparken" and that has been the official name in-between sponsorship deals. // Mattias321 (talk) 16:20, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is a clear consensus to rename, but editors disagree on whether the new name should be Idrottsparken (Sundsvall) or Sundsvalls Idrottspark. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 20:27, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per our naming conventions without sponsors. Paul Vaurie (talk) 09:52, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Nine users have expressed their opinions. Only one opposes the renaming. Six of us believe "Idrottsparken (Sundsvall)" is the best option, while one argues for "Sundsvalls Idrottspark" (with "neater" as main argument). One user thinks both "Idrottsparken (Sundsvall)" and "Sundsvalls Idrottspark" could both work. I believe that the disucssion clearly points towards a move to the nomination target. // Mattias321 (talk) 00:51, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.