Talk:Idris Elba/Archive 1

Archive 1

Non-NPOV

"The character of Bell is so deep, convincing, and calculating as a drug dealer that he has been admired by several American gangsters."

This isn't NPOV and who are these "several American gangsters"? Source? Gram 15:08, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Why was my change reverted?

according to the interview at http://www.blackfilm.com/20050311/features/idriselba.shtml, his father is Syrian. Why would somebody change it *back* to sierra leone when it is clearly not correct and i changed it originally, citing the source?

I have corrected this. I have also removed the term 'Afro-European', since this is neither in line with his own self-description nor in common usage Jononon 16:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd bet that the blackfilm.com interview misquoted Elba on his father's country of origin. There are a ton of obvious mistakes in that text; in the interview itself Elba speaks of being of African descent; and in many, many online sources his father is described as being from Sierra Leone. NSpector 08:09, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

TV.coms article on him states ghanian and sierra leone http://www.nndb.com/people/335/000111002/ Its likely when asked where his father was from he stated "sierra" and the interviewer misheard Heatsketch 15:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC) EDIT: http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1804751393 Yahoo Movies says Syria Heatsketch (talk • contribs) 15:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Big quote in subsection 'Early Work (1995–2005)'

The big quote in subsection Early Work (1995–2005) should be cut down, a lot. It is offsetting that subsection and the entire rest of the article. Cirt (talk) 01:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Is he a Muslim?

I would like to know if he is a Muslim?It's not mentioned in the article but his name Idress or Idris is Islamic.Can anybody help?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Yahoo (talk • contribs) 10:50, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Not sure, but Idris is also a Welsh name. Youtryandyoutry (talk) 15:54, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Contradiction

The intro says he grew up in Hackney; the "Early life" section says he grew up in East Ham. They cannot both be true. 98.211.124.111 (talk) 21:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The lead now says he grew up in Canning Town. Jim Michael (talk) 18:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The article also says he is both single and married. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.91.1 (talk) 02:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

An article worth mentioning

I found an article on the internet on Idris Elba. The same artcile I was trying to use in the Thor Heimdall controversy. see here

Here it is The Guardian - April 03 In it it states the following things:

• "I would really like to open a studio in Sierra Leone. It's a country that can actually house and look like many parts of the world," he says. "If I could somehow encourage a film community to use Sierra Leone as the studio in West Africa to make films there, that would be really cool."
• In February, Elba caused controversy when he criticised Tyler Perry, the actor, writer and director behind the Madea franchise, and one of the most prolific figures in African-American film. Elba, who has previously starred in one of Perry's romantic comedies (Daddy's Little Girls), lamented the trend for cross-dressing caricatures of black characters – a phenomenon many would recognise from films such as the The Klumps and Big Momma's House series – describing it as "buffoonish".
• . "Imagine a film such as Inception with an entire cast of black people – do you think it would be successful?" Elba asks. "Would people watch it? But no one questions the fact that everyone's white. That's what we have to change."

The controversy issue I thought is worth mentioning. KN→ ^{talk • contribs} 10:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

OTRS notice

Please note that an article in the Guardian mistook the name of Mr. Elba's former wife, an error that has later been retracted. Nevertheless, the mistake has since propagated to other web sites. This article version correctly states her name. Please do not make any changes to this particular statement. Asav | Talk (Member of the OTRS Volunteer Response Team) 01:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

File:Award.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

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IS Idris a Muslim?

I remember an American TV series in late 90's/early 2000's which was based in a penetentiary in which Idris was a leader of a gang who was Muslim and he used Islamic terminology, including ritualistic prayers, which perfectly pronounced which I felt only someone brought up Muslim could do - I knew him from Channel 5's Family Affairs. Moarrikh (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:18, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

British, not English

Wikipedia seems to refuse the idea that you must have ancestors of a particular ethnicity to be part of that ethnicity. However unlike that starburst commercial a pure korean cannot become an ethnic scot, a pure scot cannot become an ethnic zulu and an ethnic arab cannot become an ethnic han chinese. You do not get to play pretend with heritages, and this blatant ignoring of how blood-heritage works makes wikipedia completely divorced from real world ideas of ethnicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.189.66.149 (talk) 18:51, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Poppycock. If you are born in England you are English. Now you may have a point if Elba has specifcally self-identified as not being English but as something else (just as Christian Bale has stated that he is not Welsh, but is English even though he was born in Wales). I see no evidence that Elba has done so.--ukexpat (talk) 21:02, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Poppycock to you. English is an ethnicity. Ethnicity is blood. I see that you're living in America, why don't you just get rid of your British citizenship and become a cultureless American if your blood means so little to you?64.189.66.149 (talk) 21:29, 28 January 2013 (UTC) In addition, take your radical revisionism of traditional ethnicity elsewhere. It has no place here.64.189.66.149 (talk) 21:30, 28 January 2013 (UTC) You know what, screw it. You're the kind of "person" who will continue to deny that English is an ethnicity and that ethnicity is formed by "just happening to be there" which means native Americans should get off their high horse. Enjoy your revisionism and internet hugbox you insufferable liar.64.189.66.149 (talk) 21:57, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Calm down! It's not particularly important where someone was born, especially when they are a jet-setting Hollywood superstar with multiple homes worldwide. It's just a fact about them, like their shoe size. 'British' is a superset of 'English', so either of the descriptions is factually correct. This is an encylopaedia, not an idealogical manifesto. Please get some perspective. Mrstonky (talk) 06:08, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Can I just say that as a proud Englishman of Asian and Irish heritage, who has served and risked my life in Her Majesty's Armed Forces, I find your stance to be utterly offensive and deplorable. I'd like to see you come up to Catterick and tell some of the guys there that their skin colour isn't quite white enough for them to be able to call themselves English, that would be a barrel of laughs--Allthestrongbowintheworld (talk) 19:27, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Your pride doesn't trump science and heritage. I can move to Zimbabwe, and it won't make me Shona. Wikipedia recognizes English people as their own unique ethnic group. British is a nationality, English is a group related by blood. 17:56, 20 October 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CE64:7500:FC92:A1B5:9257:8D37 (talk)

See I'm a British English language....and I can speak not hardly English but can understand English though...but Idris Elba and me like the same....lol😅😅 Justineboo11 (talk) 18:39, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Added two references to the article where Elba self identifies as being English. Kind of mad that someone people need such references to combat racist nonsense as per above.

Ploddingwoldo (talk) 16:24, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Not "kind of mad" at all – it's how Wikipedia works. If only someone had found references earlier, this could have been sorted out months / years ago. If you want to change something, source it. Not difficult, as you proved. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:17, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

British Ayodeji steven (talk) 12:42, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Picture

Can anyone tell me why the only photos available for public use are always hideous and unflattering with grey hair? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sauceyboy (talk • contribs) 04:38, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Ethnicity in the lead

A number of IP address-only contributors (all Single-purpose accounts) repeatedly added the term "Black" in the article lead, as in "Elba is a black English/British actor". There is no need to mention his ethnicity in the lead. For one, it's covered in some detail in the article proper. More importantly, you wouldn't start a biography of e.g. Russell Crowe or Sandra Bullock by pointing out they're "White" actors. Please refrain from adding this characterization to the lead. Thank you. Asav | Talk 14:00, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

If stating ethnicity in the lead is pointless, why link to "English people," a page for an ethnic group? Also, "white people" are not an ethnic group, whereas English people are. You might not lead with "Marion Cotillard is a white actress," but you would say "Marion Cotillard is a French actress" (as indeed the article does). Elba is a British citizen, not ethnically English. If you want to remove the ethnic qualification entirely, go ahead, but it's simply wrong to call Idris Elba an English actor. Either it should lead that Idris Elba is British, and link to Black British, because that is what he is, or it should be eliminated entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.238.97 (talk • contribs)

British (or English) are nationalities, and relevant to a lead. "Black" or "White" are ethnic characterizations that do not belong there. Also, I notice that you have made no other edits on Wikipedia other than insisting on pointing out Elba's ethnicity. Again, yours seems to be a Single-purpose account used solely for this issue. Please refrain from this sort of Wikipedia editing, since it is not contructive. Thank you. Asav | Talk 15:35, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

British is a nationality. English is not a nationality. English people are an ethnic group. "Black" and "white" are racial categories, not ethnicities. "Black British," on the other hand, is an official British census designation for British citizens of African descent. The problem is compounded by the fact that you link to the page for "English people," an article that is explicitly about an ethnic group. You are the one who's editing in his (incorrect) ethnicity, not me. "British" is not an ethnicity, and nor is Black British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.238.97 (talk • contribs)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Idris Elba/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I noticed in all the biographies written, there is no mention of his religious background. Why is that?

Last edited at 21:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 18:45, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

African

I think he is Nigerian or Ghanaian Ayodeji steven (talk) 12:42, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

BLP vios

This article contained a slew of personal-life claims cited only to non=WP:RS WP:TABLOIDs. If no legitimate journalistic sources are reporting it, these claims may very well not be true. Uncited personal-life claims such as about claimed marriages can be removed immediately per WP:BLP. This is an encyclopedia, and content about subjects' personal lives must be impeccable. --Tenebrae (talk) 20:47, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2018

Idris Elbe proposed to girlfriend Sabrina Dhowre on February 10, 2018 in Dalston, London during a movie screening. Victoriah2000 (talk) 22:49, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Keith D (talk) 00:17, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Since included. Mcstove (talk) 10:56, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Confusing naming of sections

There are the sections Awards and honours and Awards and nominations. It seems like the former is about personal awards, while the latter, which has been split to List of awards and nominations received by Idris Elba, is about film roles. I'm not sure what the most appropriate section titles would be, but I think the current ones are confusing. - Mcstove (talk) 15:55, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Mcstove, perhaps the former section should be just "Honour"? -- Flooded w/them 100s 15:58, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Or "Honours and recognition"...? Just a thought. - wolf 18:13, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Filmography

Starred in 'The Mountain Between Us' (2017) 68.131.44.139 (talk) 23:39, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

References

Alias

Idris Elba used a different name in at least one of his earliest roles. For example, if you actually watch the episode of the Inspector Lynley Mysteries he was in, he is credited as "Toris Elba", but this alias is not mentioned on here or IMDB though the role is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.37.116 (talk) 17:08, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2020

“raised up” Should be just “raised” 203.206.253.239 (talk) 03:07, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done MadGuy7023 (talk) 11:31, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2020

92.236.218.7 (talk) 23:13, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Looks well older than me and I'm 55, Firkin old can't

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Rummskartoffel (talk) 23:24, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

"Green Door Pictures" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Green Door Pictures. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 October 20#Green Door Pictures until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 20:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

English is an ethnicity

English people are a white ethnically anglo saxon group, so how is Idris Elba English? He is a British man of Nigerian ancestry. Question4477 (talk) 22:59, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

The idea that English people have to be white is, at best, moronic. The guy says he's English, so he is. There's nothing in law regarding claims to Englishness, so it's effectively arbitrary. It's not citizenship. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:55, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

You might also want to get your facts straight, as neither of his parents was Nigerian. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

@Question4477: You have changed several BLPs of black people born in England (see 1, 2 & 3) from "English" to "British", along with another person, born in England to a British Pakistani father and English mother. You also changed the BLP of a person born in England to Gujarati Indian Hindu parents from "English" to "British", yet you changed this BLP of a person born in England to an Indian father and Irish mother from "British" to "English". These are so far just your opinions, do you have any support to back them up? You should stop making these changes until you do. BLPs have more restrictive policies with regard to controversial changes than other articles. - wolf 00:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I did it to prove a point, no one refers to British Asians as 'English' - English is an Anglo Saxon ethnicity not someone who is just born in England.

For example if an American had English ancestry they basically mean White English ethnic Anglo ancestry the same doesn't apply if you're an ethnic minority of England, by the way I am of mixed Black and Indian heritage myself but I think saying that anyone is English regardless of their ethnic makeup is PC nonsense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.103.143.88 (talk) 00:31, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Was the "I did it to prove a point" comment above posted by Question4477? If so, keep in mind these three 'points'; 1) Wikipedia is not a place to "prove points", 2) you failed, and 3) try not to edit while logged out. - wolf 01:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

This discussion has been reported to the BLP noticeboard. Please see discussion at WP:BLP/N#"Changing ethnicities to prove a point". Zaereth (talk) 02:51, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm surprised that Wikipedia, which attempts to record facts rather than to publish opinions, is unclear on this. Englishness is indeed an ethnicity, not a citizenship; there are many non-English people living in Britain, most of whom are British -- a citizenship. Individuals may claim all manner of attributes, but that does not decide facts (e.g., various American politicians' assertions to have particular ancestries). Why not call the subject of this entry just "British", as by birth and residency he undeniably is? Simply because he would himself wish to be other? Firstorm (talk) 21:22, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

If you feel English, you are English. It's a cultural identity and nothing to do with either citizenship or ethnicity. It's certainly nothing to do with skin colour. --Ef80 (talk) 13:56, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

He is civically British, not ethnically British. According to the logic being deployed here in this instance, it would mean that on moving to NZ I would become a Mauri. Chris Tomic (talk) 12:44, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

• • For future-findability purposes let me note that this was (or, is being) discussed at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Idris_Elba_-_English_or_British_(again) (and pursuant to that discussion, the London-born Englishman's nationality has been set as "English" again). -sche (talk) 08:19, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
  • From the article, "English people are a nation and an ethnic group native to England." Argento Surfer (talk) 14:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I'll repeat here what I said at the above-mentioned BLP noticeboard discussion. Anyone wanting to argue about what the lead should say should first read MOS:ETHNICITY, MOS:OPENPARABIO and WP:UKNATIONALS. To summarise these - we are only referring to nationality, we are explicitly not referring to ethnicity, and the only questions we should be asking are "What do reliable sources describe his nationality as?" and "What does he describe his own nationality as?". Nothing else has any bearing on what we will say in our lead. GirthSummit _(blether) 16:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
  • English is a nationality, not a racial or ethnic group. British is also a nationality, of which English is a subset. All English people are also British people. "White British" (the gibberment's statistical descriptor) is an ethnicity, but English is not. The idea that English is a racial or ethnic group is so far wrong that it's not even defensible. Anglo ancestry my arse. The early British were a mixture of Angles, Saxons, Celts and Norsemen (which, incidentally, is the etymology of Normans), but we have the thick end of two thousand years of intermixing with the entirety of Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Arab world, at least. The English national dish is fish and chips, invented by Italians in Glasgow. The ice cream van jingle is of Italian and Roma origin. Britain's favourite food on a Saturdayy night is chicken tikka masala (invented by British Indians for the local taste) or kebabs (Greek). St George was from Cappadocia, in modern-day Turkey, the Earls of Dunmore and Pembroke are of Russian heritage (as is Prince Philip). It is ludicrous to sassert that Englishness is tied to whiteness. Guy (help!) 22:53, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

• • • RESPONSE: A little late to the party! But perhaps a new thought is needed. It is important to distinguish between ethnicity and nationality. An ethnicity is cultural group with a unique language and culture, a nationality is a group of people born or living on any given land mass that is a country. All English, Scottish and Welsh are British, but not all British are English, Scottish or Welsh. We can also go further based on genetics and to give a kind of a quick summary, the only information I can find on ethnic English, is based on genetics, specifically Y-DNA haplogroup R1b subclade R-M269, which is most common in England, and whose history is in the Anglo, Saxon, Jute, and Frisian immigration to Great Britain, where they coalesced and intermingled to become Anglo-Saxons and modern day English. However this Y-DNA haplogroup can also be found in Chad and Cameroon, either naturally or due to colonization and settlement, so it is not exclusively English or British. We won't know if Idris Elba is ethnically English unless he takes a DNA test and shows the results, but according to Wikipedia, his father was Sierra Leonean and his mother was Ghanaian, leading me to believe that he probably would not have the Y-DNA haplogroup pinpointed to English people. So therefore he would not be ethnically English. He most definitely is British however born and raised. The label British is more accurate based on what we do know, but I am fine with either!
    • Side note: A good example of distinguishing ethnicity from nationality would be taking a look at the America's, every country we have today on the American continent is descended from European colonization and settlement. The only portion of the America's not settled by Europeans during colonization is portions of North-Western United States and Canada minus Alaska, these countries all have a unique culture, but not a unique language, all the languages are descended from European settlers, therefore Brazilian or American for example can be considered a nationality but not an ethnicity. Genetically and ethnically Idris Elba is probably not English, but we don't know for sure, the British label is more accurate, but we should probably respect what he states of himself, even if incorrect!
    • And a final thought; on the Englishness=Whiteness debate on this thread, whiteness is genetic, just like blackness, or brownness or yellowness, however most of the first Europeans to arrive from Africa ended up being brown/black skinned with blue eyes. The human body reacts to its environment and adjusts itself accordingly, northern Europe where there is little to no sun, the first Europeans slowly evolved into the pale white skin and light eyes we see today, because the body does not need to produce melanin to survive, and so over time generations became paler and lighter. Now take a look at southern Europe, where there is mostly sun, and almost no rain or snow, the Europeans are an olive color of white, this is due to the environment, and humans in the area needing more melanin to survive. So yes Englishness is tied to whiteness, just like Greekness is tied to whiteness, and just like blackness is tied to Africanness and yellowness is tied to Asianness, due to environmental factors and genetics. The father south of the equator the darker the color, and the farther north you go, the lighter the color, look as Asia for example, the lightest Asians are found in Siberia and northern China, Korea, and Japan, however the Indian subcontinent the people are brown, although both being Asian. Final thought, most Europeans still have small amounts of neanderthal DNA, most Asians still have small amounts of Denisovan DNA in them, most Africans have neither, being descended from Homosapiens, the human race that ended up outpopulating and overtaking both neanderthals and denisovans, however perhaps we should talk about all of this in a educational context. Hope this helps! B. M. L. Peters (talk) 00:45, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

This is has been going on for some time now. This dispute was brought up at the BLP Noticeboard almost three years ago, back in February 2019 but died out off with no consensus. It would seem that this dispute is at a point where the community should seek some kind of closure. If one of the parties here would care to craft a properly worded, formal RfC at BLPN, then hopefully this time we can finally close the book on this. (jmho) - wolf 10:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2021

I would like to have an edit request on Idris Elba page as Idris Elba can also be considered a director because he directed the film Yardie. TonyStank1434 (talk) 11:33, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Having directed one thing does not make ones occupation a director. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:38, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Update to film list

His 2021 Netflix film The Harder They Fall is missing from the films section. 71.87.207.95 (talk) 23:21, 7 January 2022 (UTC) His 2017 film with Kath Winslet, The Mountain Between Us is not listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.100.54.187 (talk) 06:18, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

It's listed at Idris Elba filmography. – ².O.^Boxing 11:34, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Foot fetish?

In the personal life section it lists that Elba has a foot fetish. I get that he has spoken about it in interviews, and I get that it may be interesting information for lifestyle magazines, but should it really be the kind of thing that is appropriate and notable enough to be included on a Wikipedia page? I can't recall seeing another actor's article lay out their subject's sexual preferences as brazenly as this one does. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A wild wild world (talk • contribs) 15:17, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

@A wild wild world: I've boldly removed it. I can't see any encyclopaedic value in such a thing. – ².O.^Boxing 16:51, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Filmography s/b updated but I’m unable to

The Mountain between us was a film that he starred in, it should be added to his filmography it came out in 2017 right before the Fast and the Furious it should also be updated under Career and Films. Thx Natare0411 (talk) 03:06, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done - The film has been added to the career section, but is already listed on the main filmog page. - wolf 16:45, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2023

Change name to Izra Aldin 2601:204:D87F:3B50:C468:D074:7816:C4C1 (talk) 00:23, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: EvergreenFir (talk) 00:24, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Photo

For someone who is famously handsome and glamourous, the bio photo choice is a strange one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.108.127.16 (talk) 13:04, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia has to use images that are copyright free or has been freely licensed. The current image was taken by someone who then freely uploaded it to commons (where files are stored). A better image is always appreciated but it either has to be one you've taken yourself, or that isn't copyrighted (if you find an image online it is almost certainly copyrighted by someone). -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 14:37, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Children

Elba states on Smartless podcast episode released 3 July that he has 3 children ages 9, 21 and 30

https://open.spotify.com/episode/05G9qhOAY389DsSg51yqz5?si=MHgdhLWfReq0dI06XZAtzQ&t=3525

This should certainly be updated, I'm just checking on whether it's OK to use the podcast to reference the information. I can't find any better sources online.-- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 16:35, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

For the moment I've removed the incorrect entries saying "two children", but haven't added the details of a third. Hopefully the media will pick this up, and we'll having better sourcing. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 19:17, 21 July 2023 (UTC)