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I hope the others don't mind but I removed the entire text from the History section and am putting it here.

The text is more of an individual's memories and rantings rather than historical information.

I don't see any way that it can be cleaned up in its present state and the article would be best served if it wasn't there.

--Allan 18:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The text removed is below.

I will leave that double-brace-open and double-brace-close bit enclosing a wiki-ese sectstub intact.

I have spent more years second-guessing the designers and builders of the IND than the same designers and builders of the IND ever spent designing and building the system. I therefore respect their decisions: what they built was pretty good.

They really did plan on building the Second IND System (the echoing vastness of the semi-built South 3rd Street station complex testifies to this (this is the Broadway G station)).

Back in the time, downtown Brooklyn was a major destination (and even in my time, back in the time when Abraham and Straus was still grand, before they became Macy*s and closed floors off). You have to understand that downtown Booklyn was as vibrant as Herald Square. This is the time somewhat before the time Ethyl Merman was singing live at what is now LIU's gymnasium -- but Downtown Brooklyn was just as alive then too.

The improved Hoyt Street IRT station is a paradigm. Abraham and Straus had a basement-level direct entrance, with a they-paid-for-it retro-fitted pedestrian tunnel under it to the Manhattan-bound toll booth area. This station, however, decayed into the ugliest station in the entire system, to include that peeling red paint job I remember from the 80s. The station has since been nicely, if a bit garishly (garish a la the BMT 49th Street Manhattan Station) rehabbed, but all the A&S bits are closed (a la Gimbel's Alley, the connection between Herald Square and Penn Station).

So. Back in the time, people really did want Downtown Brooklyn as a destination. So the designers of the IND had this in mind. They also had in mind that Greenpoint was not served at all. And finally, there was Mayor Hylan's conceit that he was going to compete with the BMT and IND: here, even the designers and builders of the IND had to bow down to political expediency. But the idea of getting rid of the Myrtle Ave and Lex Ave els was a basically good idea too, provided it was well-replaced by a 600-foot-train subway. So they did.

The designers and builders of the First IND also misjudged how the people regarded local trains; here, they were assuming perfect service, while we good subway-lovers/users know better. It was a reasonable decision to extend the Queens IND local tracks into the Brooklyn system. And none of them understood how populated that part of Queens became as a result of the Queensborough IND line.

How it was done was certainly a waste of money, but then, NYC politicians are the best of the best of such American money-wasters. We New-Yorkers basically pay for it three times over.

Retrospect provides the best foresight. Downtown Brooklyn is now unfortunate, but A&S will rise again.

The G-line made sense 70 years ago -- and yes, it really is 70-some years ago when the fine engineers and their craven political masters of the IND system made their decisions.

Clipped from IND line article, for merger

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The Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown Subway is the only major line in the IND system that is almost entirely a two-tracked subway and only the second such line in the entire system like this (The 14th St.-Eastern District (Canarsie) Local (L) is the only other line of this type. Another oddity about this line is that it is the only major line that does not enter Manhattan.

The Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown Subway (G) starts its journey south at the Queens Plaza Station in Long Island City, Queens, where it diverges from the 53 St. Crosstown Subway described above and travels under Jackson Av. to the Newtown Creek Tunnels, under Newtown Creek, which partially forms the border between Brooklyn and Queens. The line now enters Brooklyn and travels under Manhattan Av. to MacCarren Park, where it does a slight S-curve and then travels under Union Av. to Lafayette Av. where it turns under this thoroughfare and stops at the three tracked-two plaformed Bedford-Nostrand Avs. station. It now heads toward Downtown Brooklyn and the Hoyt-Schermerhorm Sts. Station described above. The line travels to, and then turns along Smith St, gains its second name, The South Brooklyn Subway (although it generally keeps the Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown Subway title to avoid possible confusion with the South Brooklyn Railway (SBK)), and meets with the 6 Av. Subway from Manhattan and becomes a four-tracked, two level line with two tracks per level and continues to 2nd Pl. where it emerges onto a four-tracked, one level elevated (the only Phase I elevated structure) and runs to around 9th Av., where it crosses the Gowanus Canal on the highest elevated in the system 87.5 ft (26.7 m) above grade. At 4th Av., the line re-enters the subway and travels throughout the Park Slope, Windsor Terrace, and Kensington sections respectively of Brooklyn under 9 St., Prospect Park West, private property, Prosect Ave. (today the Prospect Expressway and its Service Roads), Fort Hamilton Parkway, and McDonald Av. Between 7th Av. and Church Av., as on the IND Queens Blvd Subway, the express tracks (which are currently unused, diverge and take a more direct route (under private property). The line emerges onto the BMT Culver Elevated, and it's off to the beach in Coney Island.

Kaisershatner 15:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This information is already in this article in more concise language. In addition, the Crosstown Line is considered to end at the merge with the Sixth Avenue Line, forming the IND Culver. —Larry V (talk) 18:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Crosstown Line predates the consolidation of the Five Boroughs

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I'm reading "The Routes Not Taken: A Trip Through New York City's Unbuilt Subway System," by Joseph B. Raskin, and they have a whole chapter on a 19th Century proposal by Brooklyn Rapid Transit to build the Crosstown Line as an Elevated Railway which was longer than the existing IND Crosstown Line. All the original proposals were scrapped due to NIMBYism, using some of the same excuses anti-highway zealots used against Robert Moses when he wanted to build the Cross-Manhattan Expressways. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 16:56, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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