Talk:Huntsville (disambiguation)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a consensus here that the Alabama city is the primary topic. Jenks24 (talk) 11:59, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Huntsville → Huntsville (disambiguation) –
Huntsville → redirect to Huntsville, Alabama

Huntsville, Alabama is ~~overwhelmingly~~ the primary topic. It is city of over 180,000 people. The second largest is less than 40,000, and the next are no less than a few thousand. 146.229.240.200 (talk) 07:14, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Oppose per US Name In ictu oculi (talk) 07:57, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Please quote something from "US Name" which supports opposition to this proposal. --В²C ☎ 19:24, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per Wikipedia:USPLACE – Huntsville is not a city listed in the AP Stylebook^[1] as not requiring the state modifier in newspaper articles, unless we're out of date on this; if we are, please update that naming convention. – wbm1058 (talk) 17:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- That's not what's being proposed. OP is saying that Huntsville should be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Huntsville, Alabama, which happens all the time. Tuscaloosa for an Alabama instance. Nohomersryan (talk) 18:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  Oops, brain fart. I retract that rationale. However, a more complete look a page views should include the Texas prison, infamous for housing the most active execution chamber in the United States. When that's included, the Alabama city gets under 60% of page views. It's on the bubble, but I'm inclined to keep the status quo. – wbm1058 (talk) 19:46, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  The relevant criteria are: "much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined". If getting over half the page views is not sufficient to qualify as primary topic, holy cow, what is? Apparently not even Paris!!! --В²C ☎ 02:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  The Ontario town hosted the 36th G8 summit, so its notability is disproportionate to its size. Granted, the Alabama city is known as the site of US space rocket development, so it has a claim too. As I said, it's on the bubble, so my oppose is weak. Paris is a world-class city, and Hilton likely has little long-term significance, so that's not a good comparison. If this was an AP stylebook city, like Cleveland, we wouldn't be having this debate. wbm1058 (talk) 14:03, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  Of course if this was an AP stylebook city we wouldn't be having this debate - as the Huntsville title would host the article about the Alabama city itself. But we're not discussing where the article goes (that's established to be Huntsville, Alabama); we're discussing about whether the Alabama city is the primary topic for "Huntsville" and thus Huntsville should redirect to that article, or whether there is no primary topic and it should remain as the dab page. So really we simply need to be determining whether the Alabama city is "much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined" to be the topic being sought by a user searching with "Huntsville". All your points about what the cities are known for, whether they're world-class, etc., is only peripherally related to answering this question. The page view counts answer it directly, and that answer is quite clear: yes, Huntsville, Alabama is "much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined" to be the one being sought by a user searching with "Huntsville". The page view counts make it quite clear that the Alabama city is the primary topic and therefore Huntsville should redirect to the article about that city. Not sure what there is to discuss, frankly. No one is even challenging the key point. --В²C ☎ 19:08, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It seems like the primary topic to me. WP:USPLACE is being adhered to in this case. Nohomersryan (talk) 18:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
~~Weak Oppose~~. Huntsville, Texas and Huntsville, Ontario are both reasonably prominent. I certainly don't think Huntsville, Alabama is "overwhelmingly" primary, it just about scrapes over the line if at all. —Xezbeth (talk) 19:04, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed to Weak Support, same reasoning —Xezbeth (talk) 18:54, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Page view counts demonstrate that the article on the Alabama city gets 700-800 views per day, while the others get under 200. That clearly qualifies it as the primary topic. -_В²C ☎ 19:21, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: is this any different than say, Cleveland or Jacksonville, both of which have other cities that are reasonably prominent? 146.229.240.200 (talk) 19:16, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- What difference does that make? See WP:OTHERSTUFF. --В²C ☎ 19:19, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment: Wow, nice bashing me with an argument for deletion discussions! 146.229.240.200 (talk) 00:35, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Not bashing you, just your argument! Can I buy you a beer? While WP:OTHERSTUFF was born from issues that originally arose in deletion discussions and the prose there still reflects that, the underlying point applies equally to RM discussion and is frequently cited in RM discussions. More to the point, just because there may be other examples of names that clearly have a primary topic but never-the-less title a dab page doesn't mean the wrongness should be repeated and perpetuated here. --В²C ☎ 19:21, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It is the primary topic and redirecting Huntsville to Huntsville, Alabama is consistent with guidance at WP:USPLACE. --В²C ☎ 19:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: since we've established that "overwhelmingly" is probably too harsh of a word, I have struck it. Huntsville is still without a doubt the primary topic. 146.229.240.200 (talk) 00:37, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Clear primary topic. Nothing says we can't have primary redirects even if we have to keep the state in the actual article title. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:59, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support significantly more prominent than the other cities of the same name. power~enwiki (π, ν) 19:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support perfectly fine use of WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT -- Netoholic @ 21:20, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

References

^ Goldstein, Norm (2013). "Stylebook, section D: datelines". The Associated Press Stylebook and Briefing on Media Law. New York: Basic Books/Associated Press. p. 75. ISBN 978-0465082995. {{cite book}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help) The cities listed by the AP are Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Honolulu, Houston, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York City, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington, D.C.—although Washington, D.C. does have a territorial qualifier. Wikipedia titles all of these except Phoenix, Arizona, by city name alone.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

[AP_Stylebook-1] Goldstein, Norm (2013). "Stylebook, section D: datelines". The Associated Press Stylebook and Briefing on Media Law. New York: Basic Books/Associated Press. p. 75. ISBN 978-0465082995. {{cite book}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help) The cities listed by the AP are Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Honolulu, Houston, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York City, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington, D.C.—although Washington, D.C. does have a territorial qualifier. Wikipedia titles all of these except Phoenix, Arizona, by city name alone.

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