Talk:Houthi movement/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

"Predominately" is for soft headed idiots.

The word the editor was looking for is "predominantly". People use "predominately" because they don't read and hear the wrong word as part of speech. They then corrupt the language and write "predominately" which is a verb, not and adjective. Gunlwyr (talk) 01:04, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I noticed this as well but can’t edit. Really makes whatever else they’re trying to say not credible. 73.5.219.200 (talk) 00:19, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2023

An edit request, combining superficial, copy edit elements with address of substantial concerns.
Change from:
Former Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh had accused the Houthis of having ties to external backers, in particular the Iranian government.[citation needed] Saleh stated in a New York Times' interview that "The real reason they received unofficial support from Iran was because they repeat same slogan that is raised by Iran -- death to America, death to Israel". He also said "The Iranian media repeats statements of support for these Houthi elements. They are all trying to take revenge against the USA on Yemeni territories".

Change to:
[Placing missing citation, adding wikilinks, correcting quote.]

Former Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh had accused the Houthis of having ties to external backers, in particular the Iranian government; Saleh stated in an interview with The New York Times,

The real reason they received unofficial support from Iran was because they repeat same slogan that is raised by Iran -- death to America, death to Israel. We have another source for such accusations. The Iranian media repeats statements of support for these [Houthi] elements. They are all trying to take revenge against the USA on Yemeni territories.

Justification:
This clears a longstanding in-line tag, providing the citation called for earlier. Because, in the source, the quoted elements constitute a continuous statement, it is joined here and presented as a blockquote. Copy edit and wikilinking matters are also addressed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1008:b13d:16dd:5989:2b5c:466a:516c (talk) 20:46, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 16:51, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request on 9 November 2023

An second edit request, again combining superficial, copy edit elements with address of substantial concerns.

Change from:

Former Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh had accused the Houthis of having ties to external backers, in particular the Iranian government; Saleh stated in an interview with The New York Times,

The real reason they received unofficial support from Iran was because they repeat same slogan that is raised by Iran -- death to America, death to Israel. We have another source for such accusations. The Iranian media repeats statements of support for these [Houthi] elements. They are all trying to take revenge against the USA on Yemeni territories.

Change to:

[Adding new closing sentence, with two reputable sources, in support of unchanged statements of opening sentence and long quote.]

Former Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh had accused the Houthis of having ties to external backers, in particular the Iranian government; Saleh stated in an interview with The New York Times,

The real reason they received unofficial support from Iran was because they repeat same slogan that is raised by Iran -- death to America, death to Israel. We have another source for such accusations. The Iranian media repeats statements of support for these [Houthi] elements. They are all trying to take revenge against the USA on Yemeni territories.

Such backing has been reported by diplomatic correspondents of major news outlets (e.g., Patrick Wintour of The Guardian), and has been the reported perspective of Yemeni governmental leaders militarily and politically opposing Houthi efforts (e.g., as of 2017, the UN-recognized, deposed Yemeni President Abd Rabbu Mansour Hadi, who referred to the "Houthi rebels... as 'Iranian militias'".

Justification:
The proposal is for an added sentence to make clear that the Allegations (titular reference) were widely held, whatever other published perspectives might follow. This is important for two scholarly reasons: First, the perspective of Iran-backing was indeed widely held, including by major media analysts, as this and other available sources from this period attest. Second, even if the view was held in error, it is relevant to interpretation of events of the period, as it is clear that the Yemeni political and military leadership opposing the Houthi at that time believed it to be true. This is supported by the quotes of Saleh and Hadi. Note: The long quote appearing within the citation of The Guardian is presented as hidden (in <!-- markup), for the sake of your edit review. Some or all of it may be kept in the citation, as you see fit.
2600:1008:B13D:16DD:5989:2B5C:466A:516C (talk) 20:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done Seeing as no one has touched this in over a month, I have accepted it as per WP:SILENCE. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 15:34, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 December 2023

The last line of the (Top) section, "The Houthis have stated that their intent is to continue attacking Israel until it is destroyed.[96]" cites a source that has nothing to do with the claim being made. Either the source should be updated or the claim should be removed. 70.19.71.213 (talk) 05:33, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Replaced the source with "citation needed" template to give others a chance to find the source and at the same time to show that this claim should not be trusted for now. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 13:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Is this website their official site or not?

https://www.mmy.ye/ Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@Liuxinyu970226 Can you provide some sort of summary or description of the website and what it is supposed to be official in relation to? I kind of don't want to click a blind link... --OuroborosCobra (talk) 14:49, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Recent Houthi activity

There has been a lot of activity since the last edit: multiple missile and drone attacks on Israel, and multiple missile attacks against cargo ships as well as hijackings and attempted hijackings.

Is there a reason this recent activity does not appear ? דןברקת (talk) 15:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

"Alleged"

The word "alleged" is being over-used on this page. The section on Iranian support for the Houthi movement clearly notes the actual support from Iran; there is nothing "alleged" about it. 2601:8C0:A00:75A0:1CDD:87B1:7FEB:C8C7 (talk) 17:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

it's officially denied by iran so it's said with alleged RetroCosmos (talk) 07:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Denied antisemitism?

In the template box, it is written that the movement officially denies being Antisemitic, and a source is attached. However, I believe this source is less significant than the slogan of the movement, which says: "A Curse Upon the Jews".[1] For that reason, I think it's better to remove the "(officially denied)" from the line of Antisemitism in the template box. Any other opinions about this topic? HilbertSpaceExplorer (talk) 09:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Completely agree.

I am not aware of other antisemitic groups that do not officially deny being antisemitic, דןברקת (talk) 15:07, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Also under the ideology: Anti-Sunni sentiment, someone wrote "officially denied" and provided this article as a citation. I don't see where in the linked article do the Houthis deny that? I hope this isn't a case of a wiki editor just making stuff up and linking an unrelated long article to make it appear plausible in the hopes that no one would actually read the cited source? — ♾️ Contemporary Nomad ^{(💬 Talk)} 18:03, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@HilbertSpaceExplorer and A Contemporary Nomad: I remember I had read the Houthi rebuttal in the link and indeed there was a rebuttal right in front of the text there in older version: https://web.archive.org/web/20170216024128/http://www.yementimes.com/en/1861/report/4905/%E2%80%9CDamn-the-Jews%E2%80%9D-proving-more-than-just-a-slogan.htm We don't care whether they are anti-Semitic or not (often a contentious issue anyway) but rather add views as per NPOV. 217.218.67.254 (talk) 14:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

First of all this has nothing to do with NPOV. Secondly, the issue I was raising was whether they're misusing a false citation to pass an OR under the guise of it being sourced when it's not. — ♾️ Contemporary Nomad ^{(💬 Talk)} 12:22, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Neutrality is unacceptable at several points

An example of the slanted commentary is this quote: "The Houthis have stated that their intent is to continue attacking Israel until it is destroyed." Houthi spokesmen have said nothing of that sort and non-israeli person has suggested such a thing. Such exaggerated commentary to demonise one side has unfortunately been rampant by sockpuppet accounts and so unless a source is provided, along with with acknowledging the Houthi's continued rejection to such stateemnts, then this must be removed to keep any semblance of balance. Mohammed Al-Keesh (talk) 17:06, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

unintelligible army-speak

The "Naval warfare capabilities" section has so many abbreviations that are not clear at all to a layman. -- 176.12.229.149 (talk) 07:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Completely agreed, had to google WBIED to find "Water-Borne Improvised Explosive Devices". I was going to edit, but article locked. 91.125.121.99 (talk) 09:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Same here for AShMs and hoped to link it to Anti-ship missile except for the lock 70.80.58.7 (talk) 18:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended protected edit request on 9 November 2023

A further edit request, again combining superficial, copy edit elements with address of substantial concerns.

Change from:
[Close of section.]

For Iran, supporting the revolt in Yemen is "a good way to bleed the Saudis", Iran's regional and ideological rival. Essentially, Iran is backing the Houthis to fight against a Saudi-led coalition of Gulf States fighting to maintain government control of Yemen. The discord has led some publishers to fear that further confrontations may lead to an all-out Sunni-Shia war.

In 2013, photographs released by the Yemeni government show the United States Navy and Yemen's security forces seized a class of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles not publicly known to have been out of state control.

In April 2016, the U.S. Navy intercepted a large Iranian arms shipment, seizing thousands of weapons, AK-47 rifles and rocket-propelled grenade launchers. The Pentagon stated that the shipment was likely headed to Yemen.

In August 2018, the United Nations had found out the North Korean government had armed the Houthis via Syria after a meeting between a Houthi member and a North Korean government official.

The Houthis have repeatedly used a drone that is nearly identical to Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industrial Company's Ababil-T drone in strikes against Saudi Arabia.

In October 31 2023, Israel intercepted a surface-to-surface long-range ballistic missile and two cruise missiles that were fired by the Houthi rebels in Yemen. It was Israel's first-ever operational use of the Arrow (missile family) system for intercepting ballistic missiles since the war began.

Change to:
[New close of section.]

To some commentators (e.g., Alex Lockie of Business Insider), Iran's support for the revolt in Yemen is "a good way to bleed the Saudis", a recognized regional and ideological rival of Iran. Essentially, from that perspective, Iran is backing the Houthis to fight against a Saudi-led coalition of Gulf States whose aim is to maintain control of Yemen. The discord has led some commentators to fear that further confrontations may lead to an all-out Sunni-Shia war.

In early 2013, photographs released by the Yemeni government show the United States Navy and Yemen's security forces seizing a class of "either modern Chinese- or Iranian-made" shoulder-fired, heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles "in their standard packaging", missiles "not publicly known to have been out of state control", raising concerns of Iran's arming of the rebels. In April 2016, the U.S. Navy intercepted a large Iranian arms shipment, seizing thousands of AK-47 rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, and 0.50-caliber machine guns, a shipment described as likely headed to Yemen by the Pentagon. Based on 2019 reporting from the The Jerusalem Post, the Houthis have also repeatedly used a drone nearly identical to Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industrial Company's Ababil-T drone in strikes against Saudi Arabia. In late October 2023, Israel stated that it had intercepted a "surface-to-surface long-range ballistic missile and two cruise missiles that were fired by the Houthi rebels in Yemen"; per reporting from Axios.com, this "was Israel's first-ever operational use of the Arrow system for intercepting ballistic missiles since the war began".

The continuing interceptions and seizures of weapons at sea, attributed to Iranian origins, is a matter tracked by the United States Institute of Peace.

Allegations regarding North Korea

In August 2018, Reuters reported that a confidential United Nations investigation had found the North Korean government had failed to discontinue its nuclear and missile delivery programs, and in conjunction, was "cooperating militarily with Syria" and was "trying to sell weapons to Yemen’s Houthis".

References

Justification:
First, we correct the plagiarism from the Axios source (corrected by presentation of source, and placing cribbed content into quotes). Second, we corrected the representation of a perspective/opinion as fact: the statement that Iran's actions are "a good way to bleed the Saudis" is a perspective/opinion, and we need to state and cite it as a perspective of an author of one of our sources.

Next, we do a variety of source corrections (including of the two Reuters and the Fox citation), as well as further copy edits, including combining single sentence paragraphs. (It is widely known that it is Wikipedia convention that we avoid single sentence paragraphs, for both stylistic and scholarly reasons.) The changes to text are aimed at making sources reliable, non-redundant, and complete, and at making the statements clear and accurate with regard to the appearing sources.

Finally, a closing sentence and source was added, since the participation of the USIP, and their ongoing tracking, is relevant and seemed a good way to end the Iran part of this section, and the content regarding North Korea—to date a single sentence that was inserted chronologically into the otherwise Iran-focused text—was added as a subsection at the very close.
2600:1008:B13D:16DD:5989:2B5C:466A:516C (talk) 21:02, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:52, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 December 2023

On December 31, 2023, the United States sunk three Houthi ships that were attacking a merchant ship. Tungee (talk) 14:03, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 16:12, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

300 page UN report

Here are the items that I have been unable to find in the UN report. It would be helpful if the editors who have added this information provide the pages of the report where this information can be found:

• "persecution of homosexuals"
• "Children as young as 13 years old have arrested for "indecent acts" for alleged homosexual orientation or "political cases" when their families' do not comply with Houthi ideology or regulations".
• "Minors share cells as adult prisoners and according to credible reports boys held in Al-Shahid Al-Ahmar police station in Sana’a are systematically raped".
• "This also affected humanitarian operations by the United Nations in Yemen forcing female staff to office jobs".
• "Women in detention are sexually assaulted and have been subjected to virginity tests and are often blocked from access to essential goods".
• "Torture of female detainees is also carried out by the Zaynabiyat, the Female police wing of the Houthis".

In addition, can someone explain what this "sentence" means"

• "The Houthis use allegations of prostitution as a tool for public defamation against Yemeni women including those in the diaspora engaged in politics, civil society or human rights activism alongside receive threats".

Burrobert (talk) 15:16, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Pinging editors who added the content @UtoD:, @The RedBurn: Burrobert (talk) 15:19, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

It seems my source from 2023 has been accidentally replaced with another report from 2022. Regardless this is from the source I added,

• Page 31 on arrests including minors for homosexuality and political affiliations of families and rape during detainment. Also torture and virginity testing of women in prisons.
• Page 33 involves harsher implementation of male guardianship, defamation of female activists etc.
• I seem to have made a mistake and missed it before submitting the edit on Houthi use of defamation and threats on female activists also mentioned in page 33.

-UtoD 16:07, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. I was not able to access the 2023 report yesterday for some reason but it is available today. The 2022 report does not contain the items I mentioned above. Burrobert (talk) 03:26, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Australia a state opponent?

Australia supported the recent US/UK airstrikes (articles from The Guardian, Sydney Morning Herald and The ABC) I do not have experience in these types of articles, and was hoping that someone with more experience could comment on whether this is enough for Australia to be listed as a "State opponent" in the infobox. Milkk7 (talk) 05:09, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Source to the "Slogan"

Is there a source to the Houthi group's slogan as stated in the article?

"The group's slogan reads as following: "God Is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam""

There is a footnote, but it is only Arabic text of the same.

There are news article results when this term is searched online, but none refer to a source. I wonder does any editor here who speaks Arabic have a reputable, detailed source for this statement, that could be added to this article?

Also the wording "slogan" - should it be labelled as a slogan, as if it's a sports team with an "About Us" page on their website, with merchandise? Or should it be labelled as a chant, or something similar?

Wikiejd2 (talk) 20:00, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I found this one, their translation is:

God is great, death to the US, death to Israel, curse the Jews, and victory for Islam.

Vinickw (talk) 20:22, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 January 2024

Global (talk) 21:53, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 January 2024

The link preveiw to "Yemen" in the beginning of the page shows a picture of Stephen Hawking. Alvarezluiz (talk) 13:37, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

@Alvarezluiz: Hello! Somebody replaced the flag on Yemen page with a picture of Stephen Hawking, but it was quickly reverted. However, the picture stayed in the preview mode. I've purged the cache at the Yemen article and it seems that it fixed the problem. Thank you for reporting! Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 15:46, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Reference of "Anti-LGBT sentiment"

The reference for the ideology being "Anti-LGBT sentiment" is this from The Irish Times, but it's just a cut version of this original article from The Tower Magazine. Also The Tower Magazine seems a potentially unreliable and biased source as it had no published editorial policies and it was founded under the The Israel Project. I think the reference should be changed to the original Tower article and a better source for it should be found. RikyBiky (talk) 18:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

"Uprising Today" Current Relevance

The last line of the "Media" subsection reads as follows:

"Another western-based media, "Uprising Today", is also known to be extensively pro-Houthi."

This line appears to have been inserted in 2018. However, looking at the web archive, the site appeared to have lost the domain and virtually ceased existence in 2021.

It is interesting that there is a pro-Houthi English language media outlet such as this. However, given that the site is no longer operative, and the fact that the outlet has not been discussed at length anywhere and provided almost no information on its own origin or operation, its relevance seems questionable. At a minimum, the line should be revised to reflect that this site formerly existed, but appears to no longer be functional. Flashman7870 (talk) 01:37, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

References for Anti-Christian sentiment

Are there any sources allowed on Wikipedia to cite the anti-Christian sentiment in the Houthi movement? Firekong1 (talk) 15:15, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Addition of the name of the Houthi government in Yemen

The Houthis have established their own government in Yemen, named the Supreme Political Council. Because of that, it should be mentioned as the name of the government in the page, in the same way that the country named the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" is referred to by the governing body's name: the Taliban. Liam2005 (talk) 01:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Change article name from "Houthi movement" to "Ansarallah"

Ansarallah is the proper way to refer to the organization. "Houthi" is a pejorative term and isn't even accurate since the vast majority of Ansarallah's members/followers are not in fact from the Houthi tribe. Kurdish Elf (talk) 22:03, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Refer to WP:COMMONNAME, it (Wikipedia) generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources). In this case, "Houthi" is the most commonly used name to refer the organization. Note that, "Ansar Allah" is also mentioned in the lead section. Ckfasdf (talk) 05:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

It's not about it being the more common term. It's about it literally being an incorrect and pejorative term that the group the article is about doesn't even use. Not only that, but it's not even accurate since the majority of Ansarallah's followers are not actually "Houthis" (from the Houthi tribe).

It would be like naming the US article "America" or the Iran article "Persia". They're just incorrect terms. Kurdish Elf (talk) 21:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, the Islamic State article is titled "Islamic State" despite "ISIS" being the much more common designation (while also being incorrect, just like "Houthi", so your point doesn't stand. Kurdish Elf (talk) 18:02, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Change article title to "Ansarallah", the proper name for the organization. Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 April 2024

Change article title from "Houthi movement" to "Ansarallah".

Ansarallah is the proper way to refer to the organization. "Houthi" is a pejorative term and isn't even accurate since the vast majority of Ansarallah's members/followers are not in fact from the Houthi tribe.

Some will say that it is the more common term, but the Islamic State article had the same issue. The Islamic State article is titled "Islamic State" despite "ISIS" being the much more common designation (while also being incorrect, just like "Houthi"). Let's keep a certain level of consistency and factuality across articles covering West Asian geopolitics. Kurdish Elf (talk) 18:06, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: See WP:RSPM and get consensus on the move. RudolfRed (talk) 18:49, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Crazy how pushing political agendas seems to take precedence over academic honesty and unbiased reporting.

I'll say it again, "Houthi" is a pejorative name. It's akin to naming the US article "Murica". Kurdish Elf (talk) 03:02, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 03:10, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Addition of Anti-Semitism/Anti-Jewish Sentiment in the Ideology List

The slogan of the Houthi Movement has the phrase "A curse upon the jews", and the organization expresses anti-jewish sentiment. I had found another source from the UAE Embassy, but I believe this could be biased. I believe Anti-Semitism should be added to the Ideology list for this reason, though I understand if stronger sources are needed. 208.89.33.107 (talk) 23:07, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreed to this. It's not an extraordinary claim that they are anti-semitic, given their flag's inflammatory "A curse upon the Jews" statement. Since it is not an extraordinary claim, it shouldn't require extraordinary sourcing. JohnR1Roberts (talk) 12:03, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Antisemitism used to be in the ideology box, but was removed by Iskandar323.

Might want to make an edit request about it. 2603:7000:CF0:68A0:F94:2F29:D11C:B2CD (talk) 02:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out; I have reverted Iskandar's mass removal of ideologies from the infobox. Applodion (talk) 09:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

'Media' section needs attribution

The first paragraph of the 'media' section needs proper attribution.

The Houthis are said to have "a huge and well-oiled propaganda machine".

By who?

They have established "a formidable media arm"

According to?

"The most impressive part" of Houthi propaganda

You get the idea. The text in quotation marks are all referring to one source, an opinion-piece in The New Arab by Abdulelah Taqi. The article's current version talks about these descriptions as if they were popular consensus rather than the analysis of one author. This can't stay. Cadenrock1 (talk) 21:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)