Talk:Horon

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Horon is a term with many meanings in several cultures

See the DAB page. The dance isn't internationally all that famous or notable, so no reason to offer it a monopoly on the term on English Wiki. It is damaging the encyclopedic quality, as it is contrary to the users' interest. Local patriotism in this context is idiotic, plain and simple. You gain nothing and damage Wiki. Arminden (talk) 09:54, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

NmWTfs85lXusaybq, hi.

1. You gave zero justification for your revert.
2. What makes you think that Aintabli and I have less knowledge or judgement than you, as to shove our edits away like a bulldozer does with rubble, no discussion, no ping, no arguments & justification? Please kindly explain.

Thanks, Arminden (talk) 10:18, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Arminden:

• You should have ping Amakuru who reverted the undiscussed change of primary topic on Horon (dance) as AllTheUsernamesAreInUse told you so many times on your talk pages.
• You should have initiated this thread on Talk:Horon (disambiguation) which is all about the dab, as opposed to one of the topics.
• All your comments assume no good faith and show no good manner but passive-aggressive behavior. But I'm not surprised at all given that you have already got two blocks.

NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 04:37, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean? On my phone it shows this edit with the edit summary:

"NmWTfs85lXusaybq moved page Horon (dance) to Horon without leaving a redirect: restoring to base name"

I'm not good with technical stuff, but is there any misunderstanding possible here? If it is, I apologise. But it looks clear and plain: "NmWTfs85lXusaybq moved page", not "Amakuru moved page". Couldn't be any clearer!

I placed the discussion on the Horon dance talk page, where it belongs. It's a polemic subterfuge to ask that it be on the DAB page. The issue's root is the dance page, the DAB always follows the situation on the dance page, not vice versa.

I became aware of the discussion at the noticeboard] ("Disruptive editing of disambiguation pages" regarding you) before even addressing you as a person. Once a specific disruptive pattern is noticed and witnessed by several fellow editors, and your interventions re. Horon repeat themselves in the same manner (w/o discussion, basically edit warring while avoiding to present to the point arguments), the problem becomes yours. All else is polemics.

My blocks have zero to do with this, this is another polemic attempt at distracting from the point. I'm active on the Israel/Palestine topic, where posting the weather report or your own name the wrong way gets you blocked. So let's drop that. Arminden (talk) 13:34, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

PS: To preempt a non-issue. I wasn't aware of the previous intervention by Aintabli (01:43, 11 December 2023), which A) is not an obligation to know about, and obviously didn't pop up when I did the move, history is history; and B) is irrelevant by now, as we have agreed that "Horon (dance)" is OK and appropriate once the parantheses are set.

What remains open is: Why is the Horon dance a primary topic, i.e. more prominent than the Canaanite deity? Arminden (talk) 13:53, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you're definitely wrong here. An apology could be acceptable, but sticking on a false charge is worse than WP:IDHT. The revert edits of primary topic are Special:Diff/1207089902 and Special:Diff/1207090157. And I don't think it deserves more clarification. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 13:56, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@Arminden: (commenting since I have been pinged several times on this) - please avoid engaging in personal attacks and WP:BATTLEGROUND comments regarding NmWTfs85lXusaybq on this talk page. If you have specific behavioural issues with that editor that you want to discuss then you can continue to post those at the WP:AN/I thread, but they don't belong here. The discussion here should only focus on the topic at hand. Comments like "polemic subterfuge", "shove our edits away like a bulldozer" and "a specific disruptive pattern" have no place in discussion about the article. Anyway, the long-term status quo here is that Horon was a redirect to Horon (dance), and that had been the case since 2007, which is why I moved the disambiguation page away from the base name. This week, the Horon (dance) article was moved to the base name Horon, which seems quite logical to me really, as it had always been a redirect from the base name anyway, and the (dance) part isn't needed when it's already established that it is the primary topic. If you really insist on reverting back to the status quo, then we could move the article back to Horon (dance) again... but I don't really see the point in doing that and what must not change, without consensus at an RM anyway, is the situation that Horon is a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Horon (dance). If you disagree that the dance is the primary topic, then you need to start a requested move discussion. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 14:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Amakuru. I will follow your advice re. the tone as much as common politeness and manners require. To me, acts speak by far louder than words. Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care much for Wikispeak. I'm interested in improving the end result, according to ration, common sense and a decades-long intensive use of good encyclopedias in 4 languages and published over the last 120 years. Not showing off, I swear, just for context. I make lots of mistakes, honestly appreciate constructive team work, and deeply hate activism and solipsism, sometimes doubled by formal technical pedantry. Technical means are tools, not goals in themselves, and one can easily overdo.

This needed to be said to avoid misunderstandings. So:

1. Why go through N steps & forums when those concerned agree on "Horon (dance)" being more appropriate?
2. Why is the dance the primary topic? Why isn't the deity the primary topic? And much closer to my opinion: Why is there a need for a primary topic in the 1st place? What's wrong with a DAB page stating "X may mean: (paragraph, asterisks) A, B, C..."?

Keep the user's benefit in mind. Horon means more than one thing, none is universally famous, while each of the 2 is in its specific context, so... Why all this talk? Misunderstandings or, rather, egos? In both cases: let's cut it short and finally serve the user. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 16:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)