Talk:Hindupur/Archive 1

Archive 1

Cleanup

I have cleaned up the article, and removed the appropriate tags, which had been in place for sever months. While I recognise that this has resulted in a substantial overall reduction in article length. However, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, or the white pages. Wikipedia is happy to lose bus timetables in return for a shorter, easier to scan, better organised article, I feel. Therefore I would urge editors to discuss the changes before blanket reverting them. Thanks. - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 18:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC) Around hindupur at a distance of 15 km is LEPAKSHI, a historical place,which everyone should visit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.246.246 (talk) 16:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

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RfC on native and official languages of Hindupur

{{rfc|lang|hist}}

As per all valid proofs, Kannada was, is and shall always be the native language of Hindupur. Native languages can't be changed by any amount of migration whatsoever just like native Americans are the natives of America and not English/Europeans and its speakers the natives of US. However during the linguistic reorganisation of states in India in the 1950s, Hindupur was retained on the wrong side of the border in Andhra Pradesh whose official language is Telugu and the official policy encouraged migration of Telugu speakers. Currently, Telugu may be widely spoken there, however, Kannada speakers still constitute about 50% of its population and all of them speak Telugu the official language with others outside. A famous Kannada scholar from Hindupur was Kallur Subba Rao. Kannada was the dominant language in Hindupur in the 19th and even in the early 20th century which started to change only in the latter half of 20th century. Native language, dominant or widely spoken language and official language are 3 different concepts. Hence, the demographics section of Hindupur will contain Telugu as the official and widely spoken language and Kannada as the native language of Hindupur as also its surroundings. Thanks and Regards! -NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 14:52, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

What's the RFC here? There doesn't seem to be a question needing discussion. — OwenBlacker (Talk) 06:03, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi OwenBlacker, The question is : Kannada is the native language of Hindupur and Telugu is the official language (hence widely spoken) and language of migrants to that town. User quotes a flawed (partial favouring Telugu) latest official census to show Kannada speakers to be less than 2000 people which brings them down to below 1%! However ground reality is Kannada speakers still form 50% of that town. Hindupur is surrounded by Kannada speaking villages on all sides (Malagur, Utakur, Basavanahalli, Nagehalli, Bevinahalli, Cholasamudra, etc.) Such being the reality, user LovSLif is thoroughly obstructing the truth from being exposed! British period gazetteers clearly say that Hindupur is a native and majority Kannada town till early 20th century. User removes authentic references and replaces with flawed present ones. References :

Please examine this and stop user from editing/removing it. Thanks, — NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 04:21, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi OwenBlacker you can very well check the reverted edits on Hindupur article. It looks user NitinBhargava2016 is aggressive to highlight his language 'Kannada' which is neither the official nor the widely spoken language of Andhra Pradesh state to which Hindupur belongs to. He lacks to understand the meaning of Native language and trying to input 'Kannada' as widely spoken language. Dear NitinBhargava2016 , as you commented on my talk page, Yes you are absolutely right with the definition of native language you copied from wikipedia. But please note whom it is referring to? To a Person. So here you should understand as per latest census of Indian government, Majority of hindupur citizens reported their native language or it could be mother tongue as 'Telugu'. keeping your references has nothing harmful until the content is not changed suppressing majority language of the town. Now the current edit by you looks fine and agreeable. But not the earlier ones which i reverted. CheersBy LovSLif (talk) 08:40, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

For the benefit of people who've been brought here by the Feedback request service, can someone put together the brief neutral summary that is required by WP:RFC (see item 3 in this list), so that people coming to this discussion can see what it is you need to find consensus on. Part of the point of an RFC is that other editors shouldn't have to look at edit histories and read more deeply in order to understand the issue. Please formulate this into a proper RFC, as described at WP:RFC, then we can have a more effective discussion to resolve the issue.

I've removed the {{rfc}} call above for now, so that you can add it anew (below) once the summary is there. That way the bots won't close the discussion prematurely — they look for the first date after the template call, which is a week ago now, so would result in the discussion being closed prematurely.

Thanks! — OwenBlacker (Talk) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi LovSLif, Though you say that you are from Bengaluru, your love for your native tongue, Telugu, is in so excess that you defile articles with Kannada, the language of your home, if such facts go even remotely against your native Telugu, by selectively deleting references. I had to become aggressive to check your vandalism of removing valid references which highlighted the earlier demography of Hindupur town. The current reference degrades number of Kannada speakers to less than 1% of population in their own native town where they were in a majority until 1953's flawed reorganisation of states! Such misleading references are useless and dangerous! I clearly understand the term native language. I never put Kannada as the widely spoken language of Hindupur. I put it as the native language of Hindupur which is the language of the majority of its original inhabitants (and not recent migrants!) or people who established and developed that town!

My edits were solely triggered by your deletion of references which clearly indicated Hindupur's Kannada past.

Native language may well refer to a person, but in the case of the native language of a place, it implies/refers to the native tongue of its original founders or inhabitants and not the native tongue of its migrants who skewed and altered its demographics as the native places of these migrants is mostly Andhra Pradesh. So you are clearly obfuscating facts again. Hindupur's widely spoken language may well now be Telugu, but not to such an extent that it reduces the population of Kannada speakers, who were the town's founders, to less than 1%! A majority of Hindupur may well now speak Telugu as it is the language of these migrants who overwhelmed the localites(Kannada) in their own town. P.S. : Native tongue of majority of a town's population (widely spoken language) is completely different from native language of origin of that place and its original inhabitants and not that of its migrants/settlers who are included in the former case. Now consider that in few years, thousands or even millions of Hindi speakers overwhelm the natives (Teluguites) of Kakinada, themselves becoming the majority there. So will Kakinada change overnight from being a native Telugu town (or Telugu town) to a native Hindi town (or Hindi town)? By your logic, it seems yes. Native tongue of Kakinada can never change from Telugu though the native tongues of majority of its population may change over the due course of time owing to migration.

Hi OwenBlacker, Summary: Isn't the native language of a town different from the widely spoken language (native tongue of majority of its present population which includes migrants too)? Hindupur was and is a native Kannada town as villages around it speak Kannada to date. However, now owing to migration and Andhra Pradesh state's official encouragement policy, Telugu is the widely spoken language only in the town limits. Does this change the native/original inhabitants of Hindupur town's founding fathers and their native tongue Kannada? Hence can we conclude that Hindupur's native language is Kannada, whereas Telugu, that of its majority (owing to migration)? Can the native language be highlighted in the demographics section of this Wiki article? Please add the {{rfc}} call now. Thanks! — NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 15:27, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

References

Revised RfC on native and official languages of Hindupur

NitinBhargava2016 has asked for a discussion of the presence or absence of Kannada in the infobox on this article:

Isn't the native language of a town different from the widely spoken language (native tongue of majority of its present population which includes migrants too)? Hindupur was and is a native Kannada town as villages around it speak Kannada to date. However, now owing to migration and Andhra Pradesh state's official encouragement policy, Telugu is the widely spoken language only in the town limits. Does this change the native/original inhabitants of Hindupur town's founding fathers and their native tongue Kannada? Hence can we conclude that Hindupur's native language is Kannada, whereas Telugu, that of its majority (owing to migration)? Can the native language be highlighted in the demographics section of this Wiki article?

— OwenBlacker (Talk) 21:49, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

By LovSLif (talk) 01:48, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

• Disagree (pinged by RfC bot) – We don't recognize anything called a "native language" for a town. The "official language" is what the government in the region states it is, and the census data provides how many speakers of each language there might be. If you have data or information about what languages were predominant in the past, you can state them. But we have no business trying to decide who were the "original inhabitants" and who weren't. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
• Comment Since this is an op-en ended RFC, I am posting a general comment. The languages in the infobox is kind of open ended. Thus, while official languages are included, other languages can also be included if there are reliable citations for it. There is absolutely no problem with including multiple languages (provided you have secondary citations). For the case of explicitly specifying a "native language", it can be stated provided you have reliable secondary citations. It should however not be inferred from the census data. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:05, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

• To my mind, it would make sense to add other languages to the infobox. At the moment, the box includes the rows on the left of this table, and I would suggest it should be expanded to include the added rows on the right (possibly with a different label):

Current	Proposed
Languages   Official Telugu	Languages   Official Telugu Other Kannada Urdu

— OwenBlacker (Talk) 21:49, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

• Thanks much OwenBlacker! Please advise if instead of using the label 'Other language' for Kannada, adding it as the 'Native language' or 'Local language' or 'Original language' of the town either in the Info-box or in the Demographics section is possible as it is more meaningful and makes sense. Thanks. — NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 14:16, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
  • That's certainly a discussion that interested editors can have here :o) — OwenBlacker (Talk) 19:22, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
• @NitinBhargava2016 and LovSLif: the present version looks good. Please get back to work.--Vin09 (talk) 12:59, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Vin09 Hello NitinBhargava2016 I wonder why are you still discussing on this topic despite i had already explained you with all references and definitions. Even a senior editor vin09 suggested the current revision is appropriate. For your information I am not here to support or to degrade any language. Let's maintain neutrality while editing. Facts should speak. Hope you read the gazette shared by me on my talk page. But still I didn't mention in any other state articles 'telugu' as native language despite they satisfy your perception. Even as per latest census figures few areas of Karnataka border have got telugu as majority language. Bangarpet is one such example as per census digital library. But remember I maintain integrity of data and am not aggressive in propagating any language. So plz stop discussion and let's get back to our work. No more edits required on hindupur.By LovSLif (talk) 02:45, 6 August 2016 (UTC) Hi LovSLif, Bangarapete doesn't have any Telugu majority as per any census data and ground reality. Thanks — NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 13:01, 6 August 2016 (UTC) Hi NitinBhargava2016 , Don't behave blindly. If you want the link for the same from official census data then ask me. I will provide you. Census digital library is the basis for all population figures of towns and cities. I will update accordingly on bangarpet article with exact figures. And I will cite the census excel by govt of India. You can cross verify buddy. GoodluckBy LovSLif (talk) 14:34, 6 August 2016 (UTC) Yes, please provide me the links. Don't play around. NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 14:55, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Comment: Discussion is going wrong way with personal attacks. Pinging @Utcursch: admin may have his word so that both users can get back to work. @OwenBlacker: suggested a method, which may help per all other pages.--Vin09 (talk) 05:49, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi Vin09  please check out the informal language being used by the user NitinBhargava2016 and also please look into his earlier aggressive edits. It seems he has got the only intention to propagate his language without considering the facts from official records. The way he is communicating is baseless and has got no logic. Hello NitinBhargava2016 , please know the agenda for having any discussion. You had asked for link for bangarpet census. here you go http://www.censusindia.gov.in/DigitalLibrary/MFTableSeries.aspx Download for karnataka in C-series and check bangarapet. Dont throw the words like "play around" . Learn to be formal and polite. I request Vin09  and User:SpacemanSpiff  to take a necessary action on this user NitinBhargava2016 keeping in mind his earlier non-neutral edits in propagating 'Kannada' – Thanks.By LovSLif (talk) 06:15, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I request both users to be polite and comment only on the issue. What I say is the proposed table is perfect.--Vin09 (talk) 06:42, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi Vin09 , thanks for your inputs. I agree the current revision is far better than the earlier edits which claim Kannada to be the widely spoken language(suppressing official figures).

I have a query here. Apart from Telugu, as per current linguistic of hindupur Kannada and Urdu are not the only languages spoken.There are Tamils and other linguistic groups too. As per the current data on Hindupur article under Demographics section, it is written "Kannada and Urdu are the other languages spoken" it gives impression that only Kannada and Urdu are the only other languages spoken. It would make sense if we add as below "The other languages spoken are Kannada,Urdu, Tamil,etc". as per the latest available linguistic figures on official census website. please suggest.

With your permission, I would like to add one more point here. For upcoming users like me environment should be welcoming and user friendly embedded with mutual respect and I hope senior editors like you will ensure the same. Else no point of spending precious time on editing/updating the articles, through which one gains nothing profit other than the content of serving Wikipedia. Thanks. By LovSLif (talk) 08:44, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok lets wait any admin to have a say.--Vin09 (talk) 09:50, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Hello By LovSLif, please tell me in what way is this formal and polite language? 'NitinBhargava2016, Don't behave blindly.' You could not realise when you hurt others but can understand only if you get hurt. I don't want to promote Kannada or any one language, but I want native/local/tribal languages to be given importance. I am for Telugu in Sironcha, Parlakhemundi, etc. for Tamil in North and East SriLanka, for Kannada in its native areas, for Gondi, Santali, Brahui, Konkani, Ahomiya, Haryanvi, Bhojpuri, Marwari, Mewari, Maithili, Kosali, Pahari etc. in their respective native areas. How did you conclude that Kannada is my native language? All my earlier edits are as per Wiki rules and done after discussion with admins or senior editors. You are promoting Telugu aggressively and destroying Kannada though you are based in Bengaluru by removing official Kannada references and gazetteer links! I asked you for the links, I waited for more than 1 full day, only when you didn't provide, I had to use that word to rule out 'false claims'. Your link is not up and I'm not able to verify it. Bangarapet town may now have many Telugu migrants as its an important railway junction and industrial town, but the natives around its villages are Kannada speakers and that can't be changed. Kuppam has 30-33% each of Telugu, Kannada and Tamil speakers and villages in west and south west Kuppam have Kannada majority. States should be formed/divided/reorganised based on natives and not migrants, which is the universal standard. In fact your earlier biased edits warranty action, not mine! My edits are not propagating Kannada, they are propagating the truth! Hope you can understand that much. I'm serving Wikipedia by exposing the truth, adding the truth and refuting false claims / recent biased census surveys. You are still not able to understand that I never claimed Kannada to be Hindupur's widest language, but claimed Kannada as the native and Telugu as the official and widely spoken language. All this is because of faulty linguistic reorganisation of states in 1953 and 1956. If some official figure says that Kannada speakers just form below 1% in the town which they were in a majority till 1950s, then the official figures are biased, flawed and suppressing truth. No fear in calling a spade a spade. I too expect mutual respect, else no point in wasting my precious time on such things if someone can't understand difference between native/local/original language and widely spoken language. That is precisely why I had to raised an RFC. If this repeats, let issues be resolved by non-Indian moderators/admins/super admins as they are neutral to Indian languages. Thanks — NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 10:25, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

User:NitinBhargava2016 you had similar discussion at User talk:NitinBhargava2016#Edits in various articles and User:Magentic Manifestations clarified it.--Vin09 (talk) 10:51, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi Vin09, we had both reached a consensus on this topic and I had updated it as per your suggestion on 05:41, 10 April 2016. However it was changed destructively and distorted to Kannada's (native language's) detriment on 11:11, 27 April 2016 by LovSLif by removing all gazetteer links which clearly pointed out Kannada's nativity to Hindupur and replacing it with such a flawed official census link which declared Kannada speakers as below 1% in their own land! I had expected that someone will intervene and correct it. But I was wrong. Wikipedia should not tolerate such blunder, falsehood, partiality or prejudiced references or information against any language defying the ground reality. People knowing the truth should expose them. NitinBhargava2016 (talk) 13:19, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@NitinBhargava2016: I've already reverted and corrected per that. If not can add info in demographics. I hope this issue is solved now. As far as info box, there it should be followed like any other page in wiki. So, I guess this issue is solved. I hope both the editors can work on other pages with their valuable time.--Vin09 (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Vin09 

Hello NitinBhargava2016 no point of calling official census data as flawed or faulty. I wonder why are you questioning us regarding official government data. In official records if kannada is merely spoken by 1% in hindupur and if you feel that's wrong then you should raise question with concerned government authorities. But plz don't comment here. Just based on ones concensus or ground reality or century old data WP cant allow overriding on official data. That is how all pages withstand. So lets refrain from more discussion on this since Wikipedia is not the right place to question flaws in official census data. Thanks.By LovSLif (talk) 01:48, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

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Merging Melapuram

Merge: A very short article with not much notability. Just a small area of the city. In the present state it needs to be merged to this article.--Vin09 (talk) 06:44, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Help needed - this wiki urgently needs to be cleaned up

Hi everyone, Can someone please help clean up this wiki? I have started the task, but found myself at a loss halfway as it contains so many grammatical errors, peacock words and superfluous sentences. It looks like it has been picked up from a fourth standard child's school essay! Take this prime example from the economy section of this wiki: A good harvest and man’s prosperity and well being depend largely upon the quantum of rainfall with an eye on the sky, the farmer places his hands on the plough here. So much has been the dependence of the people on the monsoon for raising crops. There is no other single group of weather phenomena, which is so far reaching in its effects on man’s economic life, as the rain fall in this region.

Any help would be most appreciated :) Notthebestusername (talk) 07:08, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

@Notthebestusername: Will work on it.--Vin09 (talk) 05:02, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Please check this copyvio detector result.--Vin09 (talk) 05:04, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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