Talk:Hind's Hall

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A fact from Hind's Hall appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 June 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Macklemore's song "Hind's Hall" refers to Hind Rajab, a six-year-old girl who was killed in the Gaza Strip in January 2024?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hind's Hall.

Wikipedia

Background

Too much talk about the so-called war, but nothing about the Israeli–Palestinian conflict??

Release date?

Main text says May the 7th, box on the right says May the 6th. 93.198.83.160 (talk) 10:44, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The box is not referenced and it is the 6th May 2024. Aszx5000 (talk) 16:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 20:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Macklemore performing in 2022

... that Macklemore's song "Hind's Hall" refers to the six-year-old Palestinian girl Hind Rajab, who was killed in the Gaza Strip in January 2024?

Source: https://time.com/6975720/macklemore-cease-fire-hinds-hall-campus-protest-song/

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/08/us/macklemore-hinds-hall-song-palestinian-protests-cec/index.html

- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/2024 Southeast Asia heat wave

Created by Makeandtoss (talk) and Dippiljemmy (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 40 past nominations.

Makeandtoss (talk) 13:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Thought I might see this here. You do need to remedy that {{expand}} tag before this can go anywhere.--Laun chba ller 13:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, fixed. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Full review needed.--Laun chba ller 14:19, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will be taking this review. 🌙Eclipse ^(talk) ^(contribs) 14:26, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I've replaced the image of Hind with an image of Macklemore due to it being fair use, sorry :( Pass. 🌙Eclipse ^(talk) ^(contribs) 14:49, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not so fast. Hooks must not be likely to change, and "recently" will date.--Laun chba ller 14:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced "recently" with "January 2024". Makeandtoss (talk) 15:07, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My concern has been resolved.--Laun chba ller 15:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From Template:Did you know/Preparation area 3:

Where does this article explicitly say that the song refers to Hind? @Makeandtoss, LunaEclipse, and Bruxton:--Laun chba ller 09:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1: ... that the title of Macklemore's song "Hind's Hall" refers to the renaming of Hamilton Hall in honor of Hind Rajab, a six-year-old Palestinian girl who was killed in the Gaza Strip in January 2024?

Issues addressed. 🌙Eclipse ^(talk) ^(contribs) 09:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The new hook only appears in the lead and is not sourced in the body.--Laun chba ller 10:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2: ... that Macklemore's song "Hind's Hall" inspired an online mass blocking movement of celebrities on social media?

@Launchballer: I think this should work, as the statement above is cited in the body. 🌙Eclipse ^(talk) ^(contribs) 11:48, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's cited to WP:NEWSWEEK, which is not generally reliable.--Laun chba ller 12:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've pulled this from prep. Newsweek should not be in the article at all, and upon checking the source, it isn't in there. Discussion should continue here.--Laun chba ller 12:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Launchballer: I have removed the newsweek info and ref. The original hook is currently both in the lede and the body so this should be good to go. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Makeandtoss: Sorry, I only just saw this. You're right, ALT0 is in the lead and body, but it needs an end-of-sentence citation.--Laun chba ller 10:54, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Launchballer: Done, thanks. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd rather it was in the main body, but technically this isn't a DYK issue, so let's try this again.--Laun chba ller 12:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why no mention about the cencorship?

Non-extended confirmed users should not be involved in AIC-related discussions. And to answer your question, it is mentioned in the "Reception" section.

Even tik tok is censoring it!!!! 79.167.161.74 (talk) 15:36, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree--LucasW (talk) 17:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not a war. A genocide

Like come on, it's literally protestsong about protests against the genocide going on in Gaza. 2001:1C04:4A04:9700:D457:67D6:BD9C:64E9 (talk) 23:11, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, Wikipedia is not the place to express your opinions. By all definitions, the 2023 Israeli-Hamas war is a war, not a "genocide". There are places on the internet to discuss that, Wikipedia is not one of those places. Have a good day! Makemeaname22 (talk) 06:17, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So are you just going to ignore the ICJ and ICC? or are they also Hamas? 64.124.75.150 (talk) 19:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very unprofessional response. Please read WP:5P4. Makemeaname22 (talk) 21:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article is biased against Israel

Hi there,

After reading this article, I have a feeling it's biased against Israel. I would like to suggest these edits to give it a neutral standpoint;

1.

In late 2023, as media started to report on atrocities committed by the Israeli forces against the Palestinian population in the course of the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses have taken place across the world, particularly in the United States, as protesters called on their universities to severe links with Israeli entities.

"Atrocities" is defined as "An extremely cruel act; a horrid act of injustice." That is debatable. I suggest you change "as media started to report on atrocities committed by the Israeli forces against the Palestinian population in the course of the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" to just "as media started to report on the 2023 Israel-Hamas war". You also misspelled "sever".

2.

"Hind's Hall" also makes references to genocide, the Nakba, and the killing of Palestinian men, women, and children in the Gaza Strip.

Again, these are all allegations and that should be stated. "'Hind's Hall' also makes references to alleged genocide, the Nakba, and the alleged killing of Palestinian men, women, and children in the Gaza Strip." (or rewrite in other words)

Other than that, all seems fine. I hope you take these suggestions into account. Have a good day to whoever reads this. Makemeaname22 (talk) 06:29, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. If you think the article is not biased, feel free to debate that. Makemeaname22 (talk) 06:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The victim count in that conflict is also biased. Are you surprised that an encyclopaedia reflects that?

Re. 1, your proposal would be incorrect. It wasn't media reports on "the Israel-Hamas war" that triggered the student protests and then this song. It was the reports of atrocities, war crimes, and the plausible genocide.

Re. 2, killings of thousands of Palestinian women and children by Israel are not "alleged". They are a sad fact. — kashmīrī ^TALK 06:43, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there,

I never mentioned a victim count. I'm not here to discuss that.

Re. Re. 1, Sure, then you could say "alleged atrocities".

Re. Re. 2, I mean this with the upmost respect but the killings are, in fact, only alleged. Many don't trust the Hamas-published numbers and there have been reports about the count being a lie. I'm not here to discuss the victim count or whether Hamas has lied or not, I'm here to fix an unbiased source. Furthermore, a large number of deaths does not constitute a "genocide". "Genocide" is defined as the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. There is no evidence to suggest it is deliberate.

Have a good day. Makemeaname22 (talk) 07:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not up to us to decide on genocide etc. As long as multiple reliable sources (including the UN and international courts) say that atrocities have occurred, we consider them a fact, not an "allegation" as you suggest.

Discussion re. Gaza MoH numbers should be held elsewhere, but they are considered generally reliable. They are not "Hamas-published numbers", much like Israeli official stats are not "Likud-published numbers". — kashmīrī ^TALK 07:55, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you there. It's not up to us to decide on genocide etc. Say what you will, it's still not right to call it "atrocities". If someone who works at the UN said that, it's not gospel.

Furthermore, the Gaza Ministry of Health (I assume MoH is "Ministry of Health") is run by Hamas. That is a fact!

And, in response to this, please don't leave unwarranted page topics. You mentioned an exception to the rule where I can leave a talk page topic to request an edit. That's exactly what I'm doing. Makemeaname22 (talk) 08:08, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The whole Gaza Strip government is run by Hamas, because Hamas won the last election there. Much like the Israeli government is run by Likud and its coalition partners, or the US government is currently run by the Democratic Party. Yet official data published by US government agencies should not be labelled as "Democrats' numbers".

If you have problems with Gaza MoH casualty data, please discuss these data and the problems you have. Saying "but they come from Hamas" is not a valid argument in a debate and is called poisoning the well.

You are welcome to make edit requests, which is done using the {{edit request}} template, but unregistered users and new (non-EC) accounts cannot engage in further discussion. — kashmīrī ^TALK 09:10, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like we're going around in circles. For your information, Hamas has been accused of killing its opponents, something that neither the American Democratic party, nor Likud have done. Hamas is also a designated terrorist organisation in many parts of the world. You are more than welcome to call data published by Hamas, "Gaza's numbers" and US data as "Democrats' numbers", that changed absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with anything we're talking about.

Furthermore, saying "but they come from Hamas" is, in fact, a valid argument due to the fact that Hamas lies about many things.

Yet again, I remind you I am not here to argue this, I am here to fix an obviously biased article.

I will not be engaging in further conversation. Have a good day. Makemeaname22 (talk) 09:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see no connection between political murders and reliability of data produced by a government health agency. BTW, Israel is also well-known for carrying out political murders, even earning a dedicated article about its assassinations, while politicians in all countries are notorious for lying[1][2][3]. I'm open to arguments about data reliability, however manipulation techniques such as poisoning the well and framing are not appreciated in a serious discussion, and anyhow such a discussion would be had elsewhere.

EOT. — kashmīrī ^TALK 10:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Hi there,

After reading this article, I have a feeling it's biased against Israel. I would like to suggest these edits to give it a neutral standpoint;

1.

In late 2023, as media started to report on atrocities committed by the Israeli forces against the Palestinian population in the course of the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses have taken place across the world, particularly in the United States, as protesters called on their universities to severe links with Israeli entities.

"Atrocities" is defined as "An extremely cruel act; a horrid act of injustice." That is debatable. I suggest you change "as media started to report on atrocities committed by the Israeli forces against the Palestinian population in the course of the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip" to just "as media started to report on the 2023 Israel-Hamas war". You also misspelled "sever".

2.

"Hind's Hall" also makes references to genocide, the Nakba, and the killing of Palestinian men, women, and children in the Gaza Strip.

Again, these are all allegations and that should be stated. "'Hind's Hall' also makes references to alleged genocide, the Nakba, and the alleged killing of Palestinian men, women, and children in the Gaza Strip." (or rewrite in other words)

Other than that, all seems fine. I hope you take these suggestions into account. Have a good day to whoever reads this.

Makemeaname22 (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: To whoever reads it – I tried to address the matter in the preceding section, however I'm leaving it up to other editors to formally respond to this identical edit request. — kashmīrī ^TALK 10:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Partly done: Done 1. Looking at the sources, both Times and CNN don't make any reference to late-2023 media reports. Until a reference can be found, I've removed the phrase as media started to report on atrocities committed by the Israeli forces against the Palestinian population in the course of the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, entirely.

Partly done 2. Per the source, He labels Israel’s atrocities as genocide, so I've modified it to say that. I also shortened :men, women, and children to just children, because, again, the source only references the children killed. I did not, however, add "alleged" ahead of "killing of Palestinian...". There is no doubt that children have been killed, and the sources don't put "alleged" in front when referring to dead kids. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 17:08, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]