Talk:H. Karl Butler

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 31 October 2024 by reviewer Memer15151 (talk · contribs).

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AfC

Article looks good to me, save what appears to be page numbers next to the footnotes, not in the footnote sources as such. If this is fixed, and perhaps the relationship with the later Boy Scout movement by the Powell's pointed out more directly, that draft article would enrich the encyclopaedia. MinTrouble (talk) 20:14, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@MinTrouble:

Thank you for your review. I am sorry for the delay in responding. I just noticed today that you had commented. I am new to this, and did not know where to look for comments. I added a few sentences about Baden-Powell and the founding of Scouting at the beginning of my discussion of the early days of Scouting in Akron. Primarily, I pointed readers to other Wikipedia articles.

Regarding the references--again, I am new to this--I modeled my references after other references that I had seen elsewhere in Wikipedia. If I am doing them wrong, can you please provide me with guidance (ideally a concrete example) of what I should be doing instead? Thanks in advance!

Also, I want to provide this image which is from a picture of Karl Butler that is displayed at the Camp Manatoc museum where I am a volunteer. Merrill Butler (l), H. Karl Butler (c), and David Atwater (r) (circa 1923)

(File:Merrill Butler (l), H. Karl Butler (c), and David Atwater (r) (circa 1923).jpg - Wikipedia) My colleague at the museum believes it was taken in 1923 around the time that the camp opened. It was certainly taken before 1926, when Butler died. Can you please help me decipher the copyright/licensing complaints so that I can get it in the article (or point me to someone else who can help)? There are very few pictures of Karl Butler. I chose this one because his disabilities are more evident in this photo than they would be in a head shot.

Thank you so much for helping me get through this! It has been quite a learning experience.

Regards,

Warren

OA17151104 (talk) 18:49, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Warren, I think your addition with Powell is great. I'm new to this too, so your guess is as good as mine. MinTrouble (talk) 19:53, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About photos: your can only use photos whose copyright has been expired or established and that has been assigned a Creative Common Licence. So there's no grab and go as on facebook etc... I recommend you go to Wikimedia Commons and read up on rights and licenses. MinTrouble (talk) 19:56, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@MinTrouble: Thanks for the feedback on Baden-Powell. I agree that providing a few sentences about the historical foundation of Scouting is important.

I believe I can use that image under Fair Use. I need to somehow say that and disable the myriad of warnings that are there now. Maybe the editor who helped me get started can help me with that.

Please forgive a basic question since I am so new to this. Are you an official reviewer? I don't know what the review process is. Is there one review? Many? I'm just wondering how close this is to being approved.

Thanks again! Warren

OA17151104 (talk) 20:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Draft:H_Karl_Butler

User:Memer15151 Thank you for the review of my Wikipedia article on Karl Butler. I understand that self-published monographs are not the most compelling references. I chose them since they provided the most complete biography of Karl Butler. No matter. I have gone in and added several more references. If this is insufficient, or if some points are now referenced too many times, I would be grateful for some guidance, as this is my first Wikipedia article. Thank you! Warren OA17151104 (talk) 20:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the belated response, but you have done a good job and the references you added make the subject more notable. Overall, you did a good job. Thank you for contributing to the encyclopedia; your article has been accepted. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 16:37, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Memer15151

Thanks again for your review! Also, thanks for the kind words on the article. Getting your first article accepted is a good feeling. Perhaps you can please help me with one more thing or point me to someone else for help. I want to add a picture of Karl Butler. I tried to upload a photo of Karl and friends, File:Merrill Butler (l), H. Karl Butler (c), and David Atwater (r) (circa 1923).jpg - Wikipedia , but it was deleted over copyright concerns. The curator at the Mantoc museum believes it was shot in 1923, when the camp opened. It is certainly at least 98 years old, because Butler died in 1926. My understanding is it can be used under fair use even if I can't prove that it is over 100 years old and out of copyright protection. It is a picture from the museum, and all of us there are fine with it being used. How can get the picture accepted and in the article?

I like this particular photo because it shows Karl's brother, Karl, and Karl's friend. Without dwelling on his disabilities, you can see how short he was compared to his peers and implicitly see that he was propped up leaning against the fence. It is the only way he could stand. He was an incredible man who made great contributions to society while enduring disabilities, and I am pleased to have an article about him in Wikipedia.

Thanks again!

Warren

OA17151104 (talk) 20:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@OA17151104: Hello!

Photographs enter the public domain 70 years after the author of the photograph dies. If the author is unknown, the work goes into the public domain 95 years after publication. However, some images can be published years after they are created. The way to make sure your image wont be taken down again is to ask the people at the museum about the author and when they died, and if the author is unknown, when it was published. Then, you should contact the people who work at the museum, asking them to upload the image online and provide a clear copyright tag to it, that way the image would be available for use. Ask them to use a Creative Commons license, either CC0 or CC-BY-SA, preferably. Once you have confirmed the image's copyright status and determined it is definitely allowed for use, you can upload it again with the correct copyright tags and source (which would be the museum's online upload). If you would like, you should use the page Wikipedia:Media copyright questions to ask your question to more knowledgeable people on the topic for more advice. Good luck! UserMemer (chat) Tribs 21:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@OA17151104:

Thanks. I am at the Camp Manatoc Museum now talking to our curator who is our best expert on the camp history. We are talking about a photograph (one on display at the museum), not a published image. He is certain that the photograph was either taken in 1922 (during the summer when the camp was being developed) or in 1923 (during the first year of the camp). We do not know who the photographer was. It is all but certain that the photographer died more than 70 years ago. The first editor I worked with thought I could also use it under fair use.

Here is what I entered initially to get the photo in the system and article. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

OA17151104 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for the belated response. I'm not that qualified in this particular field, and I would consider contacting the Wikipedians at WP:Media copyright questions because they will have more knowledge here. Sorry that I can't help much here, but I hope the people there will help you figure this out. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 14:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Memer Thanks! I have posted a question. I appreciate your help. Warren OA17151104 (talk) 13:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since the image is unpublished and anonymous, it goes into the public domain 120 years after creation, and that means you'd have to wait until 2043-2044, I believe. That's what the U.S. government website states. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 14:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merrill Butler (l), H. Karl Butler (c), and David Atwater (r) (circa 1923)

image data

This file is in the public domain because its copyright has expired in the United States and those countries with a copyright term of no more than the life of the author plus 100 years.

Public domain

Non-free media information and use rationale true – WARNING: `H Karl Butler` does not appear to exist!
Check capitalization. Enter only the exact title of a *single* article with no [[link brackets]] or other formatting. It is also possible the indicated article was deleted.
Description	Karl Butler and his brother and friend at camp. Butler, due to his disabilities, is leaning against the post.
Source	Camp Manatoc Museum
Article	H Karl Butler
Portion used	An image of a photograph
Low resolution?	A low-resolution of an old photograph.
Purpose of use	Infobox identification of the subject of a biographical article. Additional: Image depicts Butler's short stature,a and Butler, due to his disabilities, is leaning against the post.
Replaceable?	The subject of this image is deceased so creation of a free replacement would be difficult if not impossible. Subject of image is deceased, so creation of recent free image is impossible.
Other information	The image was made from an unpublished photograph, circa 1923, that is on display at the Camp Manatoc Musuem. Use of the image is consistent with fair-use provisions.
Fair useFair use of copyrighted material in the context of H Karl Butler//wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:H._Karl_Butlertrue

This image may not have the proper copyright or licensing information, or there is a conflict of license.
An experienced editor should contact the uploader and add the proper tag, or discuss the issue on the talk page.
If the image has no source, add {{subst:Di-no source}}. If the image has no licensing information, add {{subst:Di-no license}}. If the copyright tag may need discussion, please list at Wikipedia:Files for discussion.

Summary

Merrill Butler (l), H. Karl Butler (c), and David Atwater (r). This image was made from a photograph that is displayed at the Camp Manatoc Museum in Peninsula Ohio. The original photograph is believed to have been taken circa 1923 when Camp Manatoc opened. The original photographer is unknown. This image is provided courtesy of the Camp Manatoc Museum.

Licensing

This photograph is copyrighted and is NOT under a free license. However, it is believed that the use of this work:

to provide visual identification of one or more specific individual(s), or an identifiable gathering of them,
where the individual(s) concerned are deceased, or where access would for practical purposes be impossible,
and for whom there is no known representation under a 'free' license,
on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation,

qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Any other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement. See Wikipedia:Non-free content and Wikipedia:Copyrights.
Fair use

To the uploader:

Please add a detailed non-free use rationale for each article the image is used in, which must also declare compliance with the other parts of the non-free content criteria, as well as the source of the work and copyright information.
For example non-free use rationales, see Wikipedia:Use rationale examples.
Template:Non-free use rationale biog may be helpful for stating the rationale.
This tag should only be used for biographical images, typically those used to identify the subject.

To patrollers and administrators: If this image has an appropriate rationale please append |image has rationale=yes as a parameter to the license template.

Non-free media information and use rationale true – WARNING: `H Karl Butler` does not appear to exist!
Check capitalization. Enter only the exact title of a *single* article with no [[link brackets]] or other formatting. It is also possible the indicated article was deleted.
Description	Karl Butler and his brother and friend at camp. Butler, due to his disabilities, is leaning against the post.
Source	Camp Manatoc Museum
Article	H Karl Butler
Portion used	An image of a photograph
Low resolution?	A low-resolution of an old photograph.
Purpose of use	Infobox identification of the subject of a biographical article. Additional: Image depicts Butler's short stature,a and Butler, due to his disabilities, is leaning against the post.
Replaceable?	The subject of this image is deceased so creation of a free replacement would be difficult if not impossible. Subject of image is deceased, so creation of recent free image is impossible.
Other information	The image was made from an unpublished photograph, circa 1923, that is on display at the Camp Manatoc Musuem. Use of the image is consistent with fair-use provisions.
Fair useFair use of copyrighted material in the context of H Karl Butler//wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:H._Karl_Butlertrue

This media file is either in the public domain or published under a free license, and contains no inbound file links. If this media file is useful, then it should be transferred to the Wikimedia Commons. If this media is not useful, then please propose it for deletion or list it at files for discussion.

OA17151104 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why doesn't this article show up in Google searches?

I finished my work on this article over a month ago. Whenever I do a Google search, lots of things come up before the article including the picture that I don't even use. This talk page shows up, and I can get to the actual article. Is there something that can be done so a search for "H Karl Butler" or "Karl Butler" directly shows up in a prominent place in Google searches. If I search via Google for "Paul Litchfield" the Wikipedia article shows up immediately. I wish the same were true for Karl Butler. Thanks! OA17151104 (talk) 17:52, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]