Talk:Gwiin Jo (Injo)

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Korea Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Korea, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to Korea. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how use this banner, please refer to the documentation.KoreaWikipedia:WikiProject KoreaTemplate:WikiProject KoreaKorea-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by one or more inactive working groups.

Titles

All the titles already appear in the biography (the source should be added there), so I don't think it's a problem if there's also a separate section to make it easier to find them. Maria0215 (talk) 16:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are no sources of any sort anywhere in the article. DrKay (talk) 17:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've shocked for your action. She have full biography in the Veritable Records of the Joseon Dynasty, an important historical book of Korea. Offline source is accept on Wikipedia. No need other Ref if Annual of Joseon is referenced. But i added other citations. VocalIndia (talk) 17:47, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't understand. She is very very very influenced royal consort of Joseon and significant than other consorts. No referenced = why your choice was delete ? This is not a good behavior. VocalIndia (talk) 17:53, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced material can be removed at any time. This is standard policy and is not negotiable. DrKay (talk) 20:07, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved to Gwiin Jo (Injo). See consensus below to rename this article; however, see no agreement for any particular new title. WP:OTHEROPTIONS leads us to choose among the following names:

Gwi-in Jo (Injo) – by VocalIndia
Lady Jo So-yong – by 🐶 EpicPupper
Gwiin Jo (Injo) – by 61.239.39.90

For now at least, the best choice appears to be Gwiin Jo (Injo). OTHEROPTIONS tells us, "the closer should pick the best title of the options available, and then be clear that while consensus has rejected the former title (and no request to bring it back should be made lightly), there is no consensus for the title actually chosen. And if anyone objects to the closer's choice, then instead of taking it to move review, they should simply make another move request at any time, which will hopefully lead the article to its final stable title." Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 05:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Royal Consort Gwiin Jo → ? – Gwi-in means Consort so the current title is equivalent to Royal Consort Royal Consort Jo. It's also not found in any reliable sources. The article title should adhere to Wikipedia:Article titles, not be an unrecognizable and invented mish-mash. DrKay (talk) 20:11, 22 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 20:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would prefer to Gwi-in Jo (Injo). Also needed name change for Royal Consort Gwiin Jo (Cheoljong). VocalIndia (talk) 04:18, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would support alternative of Lady Jo So-yong; appears to be the common name, and per WP:CONSORTS: Deceased consorts are referred to by a name by which they are commonly known 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 22:49, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Biography has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 20:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Korea has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 20:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support Gwi-in Jo (Injo) per VocalIndia. This article seems to fall under the case mentioned in WP:UE: If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject. I could only find two reliable English-language refences mentioning her,^[1]^[2] (Note that WP:CONTEXTMATTERS for reliability; articles from the entertainment section of newspapers, let alone self-published fansites, are not reliable sources about history.) 61.239.39.90 (talk) 10:16, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Updated my comment to add the hyphen in Gwi-in Jo (Injo). I would prefer Gwiin Jo (Injo) without the superfluous hyphen (see Revised Romanization of Korean#Features; there's no ambiguity about the syllable boundary here, so the hyphen is unnecessary), but the hyphenated version is fine with me too, since it's better than the current title or other suggestions. 61.239.39.90 (talk) 20:37, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Ro, Myounggu; Park, Suhee, eds. (2016). The King at the Palace: Joseon Royal Court Culture at the National Palace Museum of Korea. National Palace Museum of Korea. p. 312. ISBN 9788997748297. 2nd class Concubine from the Jo clan (deposed gwiin)
^ Adams, Edward Ben (1974). Through Gates of Seoul: Trails and Tales of Yi Dynasty. Vol. 1. Taewon Publishing Corporation. p. 356. OCLC 929760427. Injo had ... two sons and one daughter by concubine Cho

Note to closer: Sawol moved this article from Gwi-in Jo to Royal Consort Gwiin Jo 19 June 2021 without an edit summary. This holds for similar moves Sawol made during that time—though two edit summaries link WP:NCKOREAN with no further explanation. This is not criticism, just a matter of fact: I cannot read Sawol's mind, and given this happened more than ten months ago, I would not be surprised if Sawol themselves does not recall. As for WP:NCKOREAN, § Royalty says The article titles for monarchs should use the format Name (the Great) of Kingdom. For example: Seondeok of Silla; Sejong the Great of Joseon; Gojong of Korea (formatting original) but has no explicit rule on consorts. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 01:29, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:NCKOREAN's rule on titles for monarchs is difficult to apply to consorts because in almost all cases (including here) their given name is not known, only surname, clan name, and titles held at various points throughout their lives. In particular, Soyong is not her given name; it's just the title she held at one point when she was a senior concubine of rank 3 (see Styles and titles in the Joseon dynasty#Consorts and concubines). FWIW, the common translation for Soyong in reliable sources (about various other holders of the title, not about the subject of this article) is "Lady of Brilliant Countenance". (Also, Sawol does a lot of work cleaning up spelling-related issues in titles of Korea-related articles, and judging from other moves they made in the same time period I suspect the edit summary is mainly referring to enforcing the rules of Revised Romanization of Korean, i.e. removing the unnecessary hyphen from Gwiin.) 61.239.39.90 (talk) 08:59, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Now that you mention it, that looks right: Sawol moved Gwi-in Park to Royal Consort Gwiin Bak (after which Maria0215 moved to the article Royal Consort Gwiin Park, citing that Everwhere in the article she is called "Park". The title should match). Thank you for the clarification. To clarify myself, I thought closer should know that this close may potentially affect many other articles with similar names beyond Royal Consort Gwiin Jo (Cheoljong) VocalIndia (now indef'd) mentioned above. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 15:40, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Ro, Myounggu; Park, Suhee, eds. (2016). The King at the Palace: Joseon Royal Court Culture at the National Palace Museum of Korea. National Palace Museum of Korea. p. 312. ISBN 9788997748297. 2nd class Concubine from the Jo clan (deposed gwiin)

[2] Adams, Edward Ben (1974). Through Gates of Seoul: Trails and Tales of Yi Dynasty. Vol. 1. Taewon Publishing Corporation. p. 356. OCLC 929760427. Injo had ... two sons and one daughter by concubine Cho

[1]

[2]