Talk:Grzegorz Braun

Citation needed

There's no citation for the following section despite the fact that it makes a lot of serious accusations:

"He is known for his anti-American, anti-German, anti-Ukrainian, anti-Protestant, anti-LGBT, anti-Muslim, antisemitic, and pro-Russian beliefs, aligning himself with Polish ultranationalism and Catholic integralism." All-around champion divine dragon (talk) 23:30, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not sure when that got added. It wasn't there a few hours ago. Per BLP policy and WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY I'm removing it. If someone would like to re-add with a citation they are welcome but it probably doesn't belong in the lead. AntiDionysius (talk) 23:34, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

From what I can see it was added by StardustToStardust in several edits quoting "whitewashing". While the body of the article supports most of it at the high level, it's still probably WP:OR without a citation. ObsidianPotato (talk) 00:02, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

the mention of being "pro-Russian" points to a source that at no point explains the alleged stance. 46.193.3.87 (talk) 23:43, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

"pro-Russian"

Please stop removing it in the lead without justification. It is an appropriate identifier and is properly sourced in the citation. Source.

Braun, a pro-Russian member of the Confederation party, has previously claimed that there's a plot to turn Poland into a "Jewish state."

- Directly sourced from the article.

KangarooGymnast (talk) 20:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

A weak source. If that epithet has to persist for a reason, then someone's got to look for a proper source, like political science works, policy papers or at least more in-depth journalism, where they provide a reason for the moniker, some background. Not sth. where he's just called a so-and-so. 217.235.171.222 (talk) 12:02, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm fine with the current lede rewrite, and the epithet was probably in the wrong place. You're more than welcome to make an edit request if you have any problems with the article's status. KangarooGymnast (talk) 14:48, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

You blocked this page from editing and you say something about making edit requests. I'm normally not editing wiki, but I came here just because of that. What kind of source is that? Some epithets on some random american page. Who knows if not with a political agenda. Everybody who knows a little bit about Grzegorz Braun knows that he is in the first place pro-polish and anti-foreign influence. He is the same anti-russian like "antisemti". There is even his famous saying that Poland in this days is actually "Russian-German condominium under Jewish trust." Like him on not, he was never pro-russian. Not being pro-ukrainian doesn't make you automatically pro-russian. This fragment should be simply removed, because you cannot prove this claim. 58.115.146.35 (talk) 16:38, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

It is the false label used by his oponents. He is an author of multiple anti-communist movies and texts. For instance documentary series: "Transformation: From Lenin to Putin" Kojoto (talk) 21:00, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

You have mistaken present-day Russia with a communist state, they are not. "anti-communist" has nothing to do with being "pro-Russian" and does not exclude it. Non sequitur. YBSOne (talk) 23:04, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Despite, anyone citating would need source for pro-russian views. In Grzegorz Braun work there is multiple refference regarding continuity between totalitarian Soviet state and modern day Russia. However it is not me who needs to bring it here, but the one who want to prove an opinion or fact about Braun. Hence, allegation is incorrect, until proven. Isn't that obvious? Kojoto (talk) 00:32, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

It is cited

Braun, a pro-Russian member of the Confederation party, has previously claimed that there's a plot to turn Poland into a "Jewish state.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poland-grzegorz-braun-menorah-candle-poland-parliament-fire-extinguisher/ YBSOne (talk) 11:42, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

This press note is not just highly imprecise, but also incorrect. But even then it does claim that he is -pro-russian, but it doesn't support the sentence "While in the Sejm, his activities have been characterised by a series of (...) pro-Russian stances". Even if he would express some pro-russian vievs this note doesn't mention what those were. Or when/where it happened. (opinion about so called antisemitic incidents, to some point, therefore I haven't removed them, but I have wrote them more precise, as that event was organized by Chabad [fairly young international organization], not by representation of Polish Jews.).

It's surprising, that you are allowing the false allegations in the Wikipedia article, using only highly unreliable press note, which doesn't even fully support this part of Wikipedia article. Kojoto (talk) 01:44, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

All this you wrote is just your opinion and WP:SYNTH. YBSOne (talk) 13:09, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

You are ignoring basic logic. As simple as that:

Statement on the internet portal: "Braun, a pro-Russian member of the Confederation party, has previously claimed that there's a plot to turn Poland into a "Jewish state.""

Can't be source for this sentence in Wikipedia article:

"While in the Sejm, his activities have been characterised by a series of (...) pro-Russian stances".

Where in the portal it says about pro-russian stances, while in Sejm? Seriously? You are ignoring such obvious misinformation and even trying to threaten with blocking me? [1]

So you care about your opinion only, not about that articles are correct?

Source is only supporting incident with hanukah (despite it was Chabad event, and can't be directly linked to Polish Jews representation, which is also not supported by the source). Kojoto (talk) 01:22, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

As no substantive argument was presented to support the opinion that Grzegorz Braun has presented pro-russian stances while he was in Sejm, I have corrected the text. Pro-russian allegations presented by media are included in the article in other places, however I haven't noticed what exactly those were about, or where and when those were made.

I also added more exact source proving that hanukkah even in polish Sejm is organized by chabad. Not by representation of polish jews. Kojoto (talk) 03:44, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Missing Link

Name of his father can be linked to https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Kazimierz_Braun 2A02:8109:1040:29B0:C038:289C:843D:8B5A (talk) 21:08, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Is there a source for the two being related? It's currently unsourced on the Kazimierz Braun page. AntiDionysius (talk) 21:56, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

see German wiki article 2A02:8109:1040:29B0:15FE:43F7:480C:8B72 (talk) 01:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

From German Wikipedia article: "Although Braun likes to use anti-German resentment in political debates, he maintains contacts with the German Alternative for Germany (AfD). On September 26, 2022, he was a guest of the AfD parliamentary group in the Bundestag." [Braun (means Brown) is not a Polish but a German surname, btw. https://forebears.io/surnames/braun https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Braun] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:1040:29B0:C038:289C:843D:8B5A (talk) 21:28, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Journalists write more than they usually know. Braun's not a politician who regularly marshalled anti-German resentment, at least given the context, and judging from everything I know on him. Looks more like anecdotal babbling to me. 2003:C6:1739:4100:11AC:AB54:4814:D139 (talk) 00:27, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

References

Source reviews

This article should either be removed or the sources should be reviewed thoroughly. Pointing to some random American blogposts, who of course have no idea about the Polish political landscape, is not a reputable source. You cannot just write a blog post calling someone is pro-Russian and "aligning with ultranationalism" (the term "ultranationalism" is nonexistent in Polish political discourse, therefore he cannot be aligned with it). IF you want to use the source of the article cited, it should be written "aligned as an ultranationalist by <authors of the article>", or a quote of Grzegorz Braun should be given in which he "aligns himself" with ultranationalism. This article is generally overly biased, and sources should be verified. 46.193.3.87 (talk) 23:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)