Talk:Greenwich University (Norfolk Island)

Page titles and disambiguation

The University of Greenwich London University should be the main article that this page redirects to. The current content should be side-lined as it is not important or relevant to most people.

—gorgan_almighty 18:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely not. There is an article on the University of Greenwich at University of Greenwich. The article on Greenwich University belongs at Greenwich University. The disambig notice at the top is ample. Snottygobble | Talk 00:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

But the University of Greenwich in London is also known equally as Greenwich University. I suggest that the contents of this page be moved to Greenwich University (fraud) and be replaced with a proper disambiguation page. Or better yet a #REDIRECT to University of Greenwich, and a small disambiguation notice at the top of that page which points to Greenwich University (fraud). My proposal is in line with Wikipedia policy regarding the relevance and notability of disambiguated meanings. We will let the admins decide on this issue, so please do not remove the cleanup notice again.

—gorgan_almighty 09:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The University of Greenwich is only known as "Greenwich University" to people who are wrong. "Greenwich University" is not its name. Greenwich University is an entirely different institution. I dispute that your proposal is in line with Wikipedia policy. I also dispute that admins are better qualified than non-admins to decide on this issue, which is probably unfortunate considering I am an admin myself. I won't revert your cleanup notice again, but I ask you not to take any action on this until we can establish a consensus. It seems that that we are unlikely to agree, so consensus probably means asking other people to comment. Snottygobble | Talk 12:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I was a student at the University of Greenwich and I can assure you that the two names were used interchangeably. I only found this page while looking for an article on the University of Greenwich in the first place.

—gorgan_almighty 12:26, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

As Greenwich University was an Australian tertiary institution, I have posted a request for comments on the Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board. Snottygobble | Talk 12:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Also Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation. Snottygobble | Talk 12:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

And I have done likewise on Talk:University of Greenwich.

—gorgan_almighty 12:46, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to change. A redirect is definitely a bad idea, although a disambiguation page would be ok. In my experience, UoG isn't often referred to as Greenwich University by people outside the uni in the same way that people talk about Oxford Uni, Sydney Uni, etc. And by the way, UoG is a University in London, but it hasn't got anything to do with the University of London/London University as implied by the first statement on this page. JPD (talk) 16:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I vote to keep the article titles as is; people looking for the English university will easily find it from the dablink at the top. However, I recommend removing the term "diploma mill" from the dablink text, replacing it with a more NPOV term such as "nonaccredited institution". The allegation of its being a diploma mill in the body text should also be sourced. —Wahoofive (talk) 22:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The University of Greenwich's site refers to the university as the University of Greenwich. The hoax university is clearly referred to as Greenwich University, for example here. This is done in the same way that fake Rolex watches are called "Rollex": I think their plan was to use a name which was similar enough to the real name to fool people, but nevertheless not the real name. The articles should stay where they are. --bainer (talk) 22:53, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Precisely. The disambiguation header is clear enough, and anyone looking for the University of Greenwich will not have the slightest trouble locating that page. Ambi 04:54, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Thebainer's comparison is not quite fair, since the name cannot be intended to refer to the real University of Greenwich, since it was used by the dodgy uni before UoG was itself a university/using that name. JPD (talk) 14:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

In my view UoG is referred to (erroneously) as "Greenwich University" often enough that a redirect for this term to that article is slightly preferable to the current situation. This does seem to be a notable enough diploma mill to have its own article (Greenwich University (unaccredited)), but it is after all defunct. Rd232 ^talk 23:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The defunctness is of little relevance. By that argument George Washington should be moved to George Washington (former president) and the main article should contain the content of George Washington (movie). —Wahoofive (talk) 00:17, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

It really would depend on how often "Greenwich University" is used to describe the "University of Greenwich". Judging by how often people say "Sydney University" to mean the University of Sydney, or "Melbourne University" to mean the University of Melbourne, I would say it's not unreasonable to have Greenwich University redirect to University of Greenwich, if a similar pattern of usage is established for Greenwich University. Enochlau 14:22, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

As I said earlier, I don't think it is used as much outside the uni as the examples you give, but even if it were, that would make it a disambiguation page, not a redirect, shouldn't it? JPD (talk) 14:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I just ran a Google search on "Greenwich University" ([1]) and there were results referring to both institutions. It's slightly biased to the failed one, and yes, it does seem that the use of "Greenwich University" to refer to the "University of Greenwich" is slightly less common than the examples I cited. So I'd say, keep everything as is? Enochlau 14:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree to keep all as is. We're an encyclopedia, and should always refer to things in the proper manner. With the current disambig note, we are saying, "You might have been trying to find the UoG, but this isn't the right place." It's almost a courtesy thing, and I like it as is. A disambig page would be warranted if they were both officially referred to as Greenwich University, which they are not. Harro5 00:28, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The correct name of a university is the name it is given in the constituting Act. In this case, the Greenwich University Act (Norfolk Island) 1998 helpfully instructs us that it is Greenwich University and not the University of Greenwich.

It matters not that the act was overridden by further legislation; the Department of Education, Science and Training refers to it as Greenwich University [2]

I agree with Harro; let's take this opportunity to be right. Only one university is formally known as Greenwich University, and it already resides at this page. We are nothing if not exactingly correct. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 09:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm British, but have no connections to the University of Greenwich. A Google search on British newspaper websites (for example, site:guardian.co.uk and site:independent.co.uk) brings up more references to "Greenwich University" than "University of Greenwich" (Guardian: 282 U of G, 297 GU, Independent: 159 U of G, 202 GU) and a scan of the results shows that most if not all of the references to Greenwich University are to the British university. This is pretty standard for British universities (see, for example, "University of Durham" and "University of Lancaster" who are for legal purposes "University of X", but now are better known as "X University" to the point that this has become their trading name). I support the suggestion that "Greenwich University" should be a disambiguation page rather than the current page on the diploma mill. ThomasL (talk) 08:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The Times Higher Education (the magazine for British higher education community) also uses "Greenwich University" and "University of Greenwich" interchangeably. Although they prefer U of G slightly (U of G 451, GU 317) there really isn't that much of a difference. The same is true of the Telegraph newspaper (U of G 43, GU 31). Most of these sources, therefore, think that "Greenwich University" and "The University of Greenwich" are the same place. ThomasL (talk) 15:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

John Bear

Bear is evidently too complex a character to be fairly summarised either as "the notorious degree mill operator Dr John Bear" or "world-famous education author Dr John Bear". To resolve this dispute I have removed both statements, created a short article on John Bear, and linked to it from this article. Snottygobble 23:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Stubbed

This article lacks reliable sources and is drawing complaints. I have stubbed it and encourage editors to add only well-referenced material based on reliable sources. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 03:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Added governmental sources. Arbusto 05:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Ridiculous

It is ridiculous to use the Greenwich University topic to describe the four years of that school's existence that occurred outside the U.S., thus ignoring the previous thirty (30) American years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.214.9.40 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

No relation to Akamai University

Akamai University has no relation at all to Greenwich University. The "redirect" to Greenwich University is completely erroneous and without any basis. This error needs to be taken care of immediately. Akamai University is not and never was Greenwhich University. Suggest to delete this redirect as soon as possible.

I deleted the redirect, as I could find some relation, but not enough to justifying identifying the two universities as one and the same. Thue | talk 12:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

The relationship is explained in this version of the article, which was fundamentally correct but under-referenced, and was stubbed out after someone complained. Hesperian 13:26, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I found that same information while searching the web before removing the redirect. I still removed the redirect, because I am not sure the information is enough to say that the two "universities" are one and the same. Thue | talk 11:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move to Greenwich University (Norfolk Island). There is fairly clear consensus that this article should not have the Greenwich University title and that there should be a dab page. However, there was not very clear agreement on where the article should be moved. I was tempted to close this as Greenwich University (diploma mill) since at least two participants support that. I also note that the only solid reference here is the Sydney Morning Herald article verifying that this is indeed a degree mill. All the remaining refs are returning 404s. In fact, there is a good case here for an AfD if anyone feels so inclined. So here is how I am going to close it; Greenwich University is moved to Greenwich University (Norfolk Island) but leaving it open for any editor to move it again to a better title. Greenwich University is redirected to University of Greenwich with a hatnote to Greenwich University (disambiguation). SpinningSpark 14:02, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

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Greenwich University → Greenwich University (distance learning institution) – Or Greenwich University (United States and Australia) or some other disambiguation. By far the most common use of "Greenwich University" is in reference the University of Greenwich in Greenwich, London, which this page should redirect towards. See here and here. Greenwich University is also the name of a Pakistani university. 94.192.38.84 (talk) 14:39, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose 1st option, Weak support 2nd option, Strong support 3rd option: - Greenwich University (Hawaii and Norfolk Island) would also be possible. Greenwich University needs to be a dab page for all 3. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

The university was also once based in Missouri so that would have to be included as well. 94.192.38.84 (talk) 21:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

When in Missouri it was known as the International Institute for Advanced Studies. I think (Hawaii and Norfolk Island) gives a more accurate indication that this wasn't an accredited American or Australian university. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:38, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Also gre.ac.uk Distance learners - Students - University of Greenwich says "The University of Greenwich supports distance learning students. Follow the links to the distance learning programmes and further guidance." so first option is out. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:40, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support a move to Greenwich University (diploma mill), because that is exactly what this "university " is. In more than four decades they have achieved recognition from Norfolk Island, for about four years. The proposed title is not suitable because the real University of Greenwich has a distance learning programme. Green Giant (talk) 04:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support as proposed. Trying to reflect the institution's geography in a disambiguator becomes unwieldy, and (diploma mill) is tempting but too WP:POV. I agree with IIO that Greenwich University should be a dab. --BDD (talk) 20:50, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - Not casting a vote with this, but the other option presented in the first vote would likely be the best. Norfolk Island is an external territory of AU and essentially manages their own internal affairs (kind of like Guam, but I dont know the itricacies of that relationship). The university was also (excluding a small period in QLD), rejected by all mainland state education authorities. -- Nbound (talk) 12:23, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
• Support a move but not keen on any of the proposed titles. I note also that International Institute for Advanced Studies was a previously deleted wikispam page which read International Institute for Advanced Studies (IIAS) offers a two year rigorous Marketing specialization to students aspiring to be Top notch Marketing professionals. The institute is highly focused on Marketing and hopes to be one of the best B-schools. Marketing Faculties from the US, and Bangalore, India would be part of the institute's mentors to students. The institute is located near to Karnatak University, Dharwad. For further information, call +91 836 2748580 and was contributed by an anon whose only other contribution was to insert a link to the page from the Dharwad article [3]. But Greenwich University should redirect to University of Greenwich, that much is clear. How about Greenwich University (Norfolk Island) as a title? That seems to cover its only notable period of existence. Alternatively, recycle the International Institute for Advanced Studies title, with a Greenwich University redirects here... hatnote pointing to it from the University of Greenwich article. Andrewa (talk) 05:10, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.