Talk:Girl Scouts of the USA/Archive 1

Comments

To try to calm the situation concerning the controversy, I have modified the wording to be the official position of the National organization, that Girl Scouting is open to all girls, and any adult over 18 that accept the promise and law. I have also corrected a reference to scouting as referring to Girl Scouting, as scouting is a common utilization of BSA and is not used to refer to Girl Scouts. Finally, I have corrected the article to reflect that the national HQ is located in NY, NY, not in Savannah, as was previously stated.

The orginization is named Girl Scouts of the United States of America[1], so I'm going to move the article. Gentgeen 07:52, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The website uses "Girl Scouts of the USA" as its short form. This article should go there. --Jia ng 07:58, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Just looked there, and there was another article, not very good one, already there. I've made it a re-direct here for now, but that move will require a sysop to complete. Gentgeen 08:16, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Done. What do those cookie boxes say? --Jia ng 08:43, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The Shortbread box that's apparently been in my cupboard for at least two years (don't ask) says "Baked by authority of Girl Scouts of the USA." - Hedgey42 18:36, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

NPOV in controversy section

I made some improvements to the Controversy section, as its original wording seemed to very much be from an anti-Scouts POV. I think the new wording is greatly improved, but the claims in that section should be sourced. Kit 20:45, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the section labelled "Controversy" when, in fact, it describes the fact that there is no controversy? --Habap 15:08, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

While I considered removing it, the information in this section is probably useful to those reading the page. I couldn't come up with a great section header, so I tried No official stand on sexuality --Habap 21:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting as a term

GSUSA leadership training discourages use of the term "scouting," as Girl Scouts is a separate organization from Boy Scouts despite the common roots and relationships between the Girl Guides founders and Boy Scout founders. With so many organizations in existence now (only some of which are listed on this page), it's a little like calling a baseball player a member of the "sporting movement." I am a PR coordinator for my service unit and have been trained in orientation to stay away from "scouting" when writing press releases, instead using GSUSA, Girl Scouts, or Girl Scouts within the _________ service area of the ________Council," wherever applicable.Cbflagg 05:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting is one movement. It's rather schizoid of GSUSA to say they're not part of Scouting when it's the second word in their name. Rlevse 10:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The reason might be because the BSA has tended to see itself as having a monopoly on the word Scouting in the US (including suing everyone else who used it [they even pressured the GSUSA in the early 1920s to change their name]). For example in the 1970s the BSA also used "Scouting USA" as a descriptive term. In addition given the current controversy over the BSA (its position on gays and atheists) and the very different positions the GSUSA takes it is not surprising the GSUSA wants to separate itself. What we should do in the article is another matter.--Erp 01:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A rose by any other name is still a rose....Girl Guides, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Ventuers, Explorers, and so on are all part of the same movement.Rlevse 02:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting is too often confused with an association or the outdoors. That is not Scouting, those things are just veils to cover what we really do. Scouting (Girl Guides, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Ventuers, Explorers, etc) is really a program, system of beliefs, a way of living and thinking, all grounded in the same root, that we use to instill things like character, honor, and integrity. And for many of us, such as me, it's also an extended family. Let's stop worrying about how we're different and focus on how we're alike and what we're really about.Rlevse 11:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discrimination against "Infidels" and Bisexual/Gay people:

The Boy Scouts of America, as stated on Controversies about the Boy Scouts of America (which conveniently removes all criticism from the article and moves it somewhere readers are less likely to notice it!) has these nasty little rules:

People not allowed to be scouts, whether youths as members or leaders:

Anyone who is openly gay or bisexual or known to be gay/bi
Members that refuse to affirm a "duty to God"
Adult agnostics or atheists

Pity the two articles seem to constantly have this information about the serious discrimination that takes place in these very-fundamentalist Christian-swaying groups moved or deleted entirely..

I think the two could be a world of good but this kind of discrimination and religious brainwashing should not be happening..

--Mistress Selina Kyle 19:23, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:Kintetsubuffalo has been removing this part of the sentence from the article repeatedly (sentence included for context, bolded is bit that he keeps removing)

"Unlike the Boy Scouts of America, Girl Scouts of the USA has consistently upheld the belief that issues of sexuality belong between a girl and her parents, and therefore does not take any official position on the issue of homosexuality: gays and lesbians are not discriminated against and are accepted and included as members of the Girl Scouting Movement."

On his user page it says "I have actively assisted in the creation of Scouting and Guiding movements in some countries" (paraphrase) so it seems that more than anything he is trying to cover up for/deny this bigotry than anything else. From one of his edit summaries on the history: "discriminated against" _is_ an accusation that the BSA discriminates" - The BSA clearly DOES discriminate as from the rules stated above... Only the Girl Scouts being the ones that DO NOT have these homophobic rules. --Mistress Selina Kyle 19:36, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As I have said repeatedly, I removed POV repeatedly from this article due to the accusation of "discrimination". The freedom of association enshrined in the Constitution does not prima facie denote "discrimination" against those who do not meet membership guidelines or requirements. But I applaud Selina for putting this in the talk page where in belongs, and not in the actual article, where it would still be POV.

And for the record, yes, I am a Scout, I am also a vocal critic where Scouting falls short, but POV is POV whether I am pro or against a policy. This is an encyclopedia, not a forum for whether policies are popular or pleasant-that is why the BSA controversies article exists. Thanks, Chris 19:43, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To your constant "prima facie" crap: There is PLENTY evidence for this discrimination, to carry on with legalese like that in spite of the evidence is ridiculous.

Some of the Boy Scouts of America's official rules are:

People not allowed to be scouts, whether youths as members or leaders:

Anyone who is openly gay or bisexual or known to be gay/bi
Members that refuse to affirm a "duty to God"
Adult agnostics or atheists

However way that's worded, it's discrimination, bigotry and blatant homophobia. --Mistress Selina Kyle 19:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is the place to state that opinion, not in the article itself. If I say "The government was slow to respond to Hurricane Katrina", that's fact. If I say "The government was slow to respond to Hurricane Katrina as a specific policy against a particular group of people", that's opinion. Your claims of discrimination are still _opinion_, POV, not _fact_, and in any case go against Wikipedia's NPOV stance. You probably should remove the "This user maintains a policy of neutrality on controversial issues." from your userpage, as you're proving this to be untrue today.Chris 20:03, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

When there's actual stated rules saying that gay/bi/agnostic or atheist people are not allowed in the organisation, that's discriminiation, however way it's worded - That's not POV, that's a fact... --Mistress Selina Kyle 21:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

But that has NOTHING to do with the GSUSA. This article is about the Girl Scouts. The place to put criticism of the BSA is on their article, but only if it can be done in a NPOV way. Gentgeen 23:33, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the BSA anti-discrimination website, they have a page about the GSA too at http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/gsusa.html and http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/gsusa-problems.html which points out some problems, including a case where they had to be sued to let an atheist in. The site points out that true nondiscrimination policies are only adopted by GSA groups locally and that the national "nondiscrimination" policy requires that girls keep their sexual orientation private. There's a copy of a Newsweek article there which explains that "in some communities, lesbian Scout leaders are afraid to keep a picture of their partner next to their bunk or invite their partner when their troop throws a party for families" because they must keep their orientation private, and summarizes a spokeswoman's comments as saying that "the 'norms of each community' must determine whether gays can be excluded".

I don't feel right modifying the article based only on one site, but it does sound like the GSA is doing at least some discrimination and I hope someone reading this who knows more can look into it. Ken Arromdee 19:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such organization as GSA. It's GSUSA. Once again, apparently someone unfamilair with Scouting who's just looking for an icon to smash, - GCW 19 Jan

Just a book to suggest for those interested in the research: "On My Honor: Boy Scouts and the Making of American Youth" by Jay Mechling. It explains and analyses the legal cases and history surrounding Boy Scouts of America's policies involving sexual orientation and other scandals. It also goes into some (albiet small) discussion of Girl Scouts, primarily to illustrate how the author feels the Girl Scouts fixed themselves while Boy Scouts continues to be bigoted.

On a personal note, I've a Girl Scout for 13 years, and have earned my Gold Award, and have spent three happy summers working as a Camp Counselor for my local Girl Scout Council. I have NEVER experienced any discrimination. At the Girl Scout Summer Camps I have worked with, the staff was up to 90% bi/lesbian/other etc. etc.; and with discussions I have had with colleges, this seems to be the norm. In the Girl Scout Camp Summer Counselor Manual there are sections on nondiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation (I foolishly through mine away, but will try to borrow a friend's). Hope this helps.

Zidel333 05:09, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Girl Scout Promise

There is a section in the article on "Controveries about the Boy Scouts of America" that discusses the Girl Scout Promise and when it is okay to replace the word "God" with another word. Could someone knowledgeable please review the section for accuracy and edit it as necessary (with citations). Here's the link: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Controversies_about_the_Boy_Scouts_of_America#Girl_Scout_Promise_of_Girl_Scouts_of_the_USA --Jagz 22:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The cite is right there, its #13. [2] It looks like the text is straight from the GSUSA site. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:17, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but what about the next paragraph that begins, "Note: The Girl Scouts of the USA is not a member of WOSM..."?--Jagz 22:27, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That would be correct, they are under WAGGS see List of World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts members. An additional note to that effect might be in order. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:06, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the section as it appears now:

"The Girl Scouts of the USA's Girl Scout Promise

On my honor, I will try:

To serve God* and my country,

To help people at all times,

And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

[*] "The word 'God' can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word 'God' with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate."[3]

Note: The Girl Scouts of the USA is not a member of WOSM but a member of the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (WAGGGS), the female-oriented counterpart to WOSM. The WAGGGS Constitution requires Member Societies to maintain membership standards to include a promise similar to the one established by Baden-Powell, thus it seems any word replacing "God" should be spiritual in nature (i.e. "Allah", "Jehovah", "Great Spirit", etc.) in order to meet the requirements that GSUSA must adhere to. Further elaboration on this can be found in Exploring Spirituality in GirlGuiding-GirlScouting Module1 cowritten by a leader of GSUSA and issued in June, 2005."

Is this correct?--Jagz 02:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been a Girl Scout for the past 13 years (and a Gold Scout btw), and I remember distinctly reading in an adult leader's manual that God can be replaced, or not even required to be said (i.e. one can pause, or just keep going in the Promise.) This can also be done in any GS Ceremony where the word God is traditionally said. Also, I read a book "On My Honor: Boy Scouts and the Making of American Youth" by Jay Mechling, while it focuses primarily on Boy Scouts of America, there is some analysis of Girl Scouts of America, including the Promise. Its a pretty good read, but tends to really bash Boy Scouts.

Zidel333 04:57, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we should add the "pause" to the list, but please provide a quote or cite that shows GSUSA is ignoring the Constitution of WAGGGS and the guidance that their own representative to WAGGS wrote last June!

"Boy Scouts need to learn a lesson from Girl Scouts, which in a landslide 1,560-375 vote on October 23, 1993, adopted a measure to permit any of its 2.6 million members to substitute another word or phrase for "God" in the official pledge. Girl Scout President B. LaRae Orullian made an official statement that the change is "a very strong statement that Girl Scouts continue to be on the cutting edge, and this is a continuing effort to show that we have strength in diversity and that we are an inclusive organization." Too bad Boy Scouts can't say the same!"[4] --Jagz 22:43, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

popular culture

I would like to add a section to this article about girl scouts in popular culture (movies, tv, books, music, etc.). Discuss please...! Ycaps123 09:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a discussion over at the Boy Scouts (Boy Scouts of America) article that concerns this topic. There are proposals to either create a new article for scouting in pop culture, or merge all pop culture references into scouting. Please see here: Talk:Boy_Scouts_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)#popular_culture Ycaps123 17:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the text from the popular culture section as the info is duplicated in the new scouting in popular culture article. Ycaps123 16:31, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Importance

Does anyone else feel that this article should be of top priority instead of high? GSUSA is a HUGE part of scouting to girls in the United States. Just as important to wiki scouting as Baden Powel or any Boy Scout page of top importance. Is anyone else in agreement? Or am I chasing after something I can never kill here? Darthgriz 9 8 22:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Controversy section

Is this section even nessesary? It's widely unsourced, and is an eyesore. Is stance on Homosexuality even a controversy? Because I don't see anybody complaining about the don't ask don't tell policy. Darthgriz 9 8 03:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently the section has been here for quite some time. See the section above labelled "NPOV in controversy section" and look at the dates. I would find it surprising that a section that's been around for so long, with implicit approval of multiple editors, would be deemed by one person to be unnecessary and be removed. Of course you have not removed it, yet, but based simply on its longevity, I'd keep it.

For other reasons I'd keep it as well. It is directly related to the topic and provides additional information in an encyclopedic fashion. It is perfectly appropriate for wiki articles to include sections on controversies. Lest anyone be misled, the very title of the section alerts people that a controversy exists. Information is best when it includes more information, not when it is narrowly tailored to exclude controversy.

As to widely unsourced, that may be a valid concern and could be corrected by linking to appropriate sources.

What do others say? --SafeLibraries 03:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some reorg and expansion and moved the controversy bit from the promise section down.--Erp 02:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Girl Scouts do not "uphold a don't-ask don't-tell policy". That would mean they kick out people who reveal that they're lesbian, which they don't. --70.177.170.25 (talk) 01:09, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, that is true. I've fixed that. Based on the sources cited, GSUSA policy (aside from whether it is faithfully adhered to) pretty clearly prohibits adults from demonstrating or promoting sexual preference, while welcoming adult leaders and girls of any preference. Steveozone (talk) 01:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mariner Scout merge

I think this needs to be discussed. It appears that the program is still active (I found at least a couple of Mariner ships with a google search) though not very large. It is small enough to be included in this article unless this article becomes too large but the option to merge was mentioned when it looked like it was of historical interest only.--Erp 01:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This might be a good idea since it is a stub and I'm even wondering if it can be fully expanded into a full article. I haven't even heard of Mariner Scouts before through council, so I'm guessing there really isn't a whole lot of them around anymore. I do know that Venture Scouting is around, as I'm thinking about joining up for that, but Mariner, I say merge it. But I'd wait until we get some more disscusion going here. Darthgriz 9 8 01:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It may have no more than a handful of boats (oddly enough one is in the harbor I usually sail out of and I didn't know it existed until I went web searching for info on Mariner Scouts but then I'm not an active Scout). --Erp 02:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Or merge with Sea Scout --Egel _Reaction? 21:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article nomination?

After CoM is completed, I would like to nominate this article for GA. Or at least, I would like to be able to. Any thoughts on this, probably some objections, what needs to be done to make it GA? Lets do it! Darthgriz 9 8 00:36, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I think we need a few good pictures. Also some of the 'see also' can be dropped since they occur in the actual article. We might want to add a brief bit about cookie selling to the Customs section. The Mariner Scout section might need to be moved elsewhere within the article especially if we merge the separate article into this article (perhaps within the levels area). We need a brief bit on badges (and perhaps expand the Girl Scouts Levels article to contain more on badges). I don't think we have a link to the category of scouting in various states. There is a lot in the history section that could be expanded such as on the big Senior Girl Scout Roundups of the 50's and 60's. Also a brief mention of some notable Girl Scouts might not be out of place. The intro needs work.--Erp 01:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pictures I can handle, badges I might be able to handle, I think the cookie section is an excelent idea. At least it's a good start on what needs done, thanks! Darthgriz 9 8 01:58, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Roundup? Where did you find info on those? I know we have them, but they are really small council things. Ours are held every two years, lol I hate to say it on this talk page but I have so many crazy roundup memories. I'd share them if people want me to. Darthgriz 9 8 02:00, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

At one time Girl Scouts had Round-ups which were similar to the BSA National Jamborees. I don't know much beyond that myself but careful googling shows some tantalizing info (e.g., people holding roundup reunions).--Erp 17:32, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, I'll look into it. All I know of old roundups is what my leader and some other ladies were saying at last round-up. How they slept on the ground, the woods were the bathroom, and how it was held on that hill up yonder where the pavillion near the lake is. But that's original research so I'll get some real stuff. Darthgriz 9 8 22:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GA suggestions

Being the collaboration has greatly helped, but much is left... Here are my suggestions: refs need proper formatting and you need several of them, lead needs expanded to summarize the article, get rid of all those short stubby paragraphs, convert most of the lists into prose, add more wikilinks, put dates in proper wiki format. Rlevse 02:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone work of prosifiying the lists, expecialy segrogation, I tried, and don't know what to do with it, since I know almost nothing on the segrogation of the GSUSA. Darthgriz 9 8 02:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a better lead-in- What do Girl Scout really do?
Close up one-sentence paragraphs.
Age levels: prosify with a short explanation of each. Look at merging Girl Scout levels (USA), less the history section.
Special programs: to much italics.
Awards: explain on their own; don't compare to Eagle Scout.
Pomise & law should go under aims & ideals.
A few instances where Scout or Scouting is lower case.
Customs should be program or activities.
Pop culture: either expand or just move to See also.
Try to work External links in as references.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:08, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GA disscussion

This article has come a long way, but it still needs pictures, when I have access to my home computer this weekend I will try to get a few pictures. Any other suggestions for this article along the lines of making it GA worthy? Darthgriz 9 8 00:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a bit listy and stubby, see if you can make it more prosey. All the external jumps, like this: [5], need to be converted into standard cite php refs--ditto for the refs already in the ref section. When you get this done, even if there's still work to do, list it as a GA nominee as it usually takes 3 weeks, if not longer, for an article to make it to the top of the nominee list.Rlevse 00:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I'll give that a go and then nominate it and see what happens. Darthgriz 9 8 00:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the references are formated now, just need to tighten the article and copyedit. Darthgriz 9 8 01:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Much better, but if your goal is FA, the refs should be in cite php format (see Gilwell Park, Eagle Scout for examples). Rlevse 02:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Long term goal there, but yeah I'll see if I can squeze a few minutes in for that this weekend while I'm studying the difference between spogocoel and otista. ok nvm that is gona take awhile, whoever put the book references in, can you reference them please in proper format? Or do I need to round you up on talk pages? Darthgriz 9 8 19:01, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the Book references were inside a quote and should have probably remained there. I would have liked to reference them directly but I have no access to either work nor do I think they are on-line. I'll see what I can do with the other references--Erp 00:29, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Convert the program aims to prose. Rlevse 15:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done thanks to Erp. Anything else anyone can think of? Other than the intro. Darthgriz 9 8 19:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Make the lead more of a summary of the article and the submit at WP:GAC. Nice work. The backlog is shorter than it used to be. Rlevse 20:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article is greatly improved and I have passed it as a GA. Nice work to all. Further improvements should include a few more pictures, and probably a discussion of the methods that GSUSA uses to accomplish their objectives. --NThurston 19:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mergeing history section of the GSUSA level article

I think if we merged the history section of the GSUSA article into GSUSA it might cover most of the bases for the levels as per gadget850. Darthgriz 9 8 23:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

well, since there are no objections...

Picture

I have a few pictures of myself completing my gold award project, does anyone think these might be appropriate? They show an example of what happens durring a project. I can even upload them and put them on here to show you guys. Darthgriz 9 8 23:32, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proselytizing

Why cant this be simply an organization that promotes ethics, female strength, girls mastering their own destiny etc. Why do they have to throw in all magic sky spirit religious mumbo jumbo? Twisting the minds of young girls to believe, and stake their lives on illogical fairy tails keeps humanity benighted. In fact, I was in a restaurant when 40 girl scouts came in, and began singing religious hymns, all devoted to a male deity... Wow, the lack of reason and social irresponsibility are high up there on the scale. Why compel young girls to worship a male god? Control? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.40.5.197 (talk) 20:59, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

segrogation

Okay, this section needs to be prosified, and I don't know anything on the topic so can somebody who does or whoever put it in there please help out?Darthgriz 9 8 02:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone have any information on Asians/Asian Americans for this section?

Review

Randy asked me to review this article, so here are some thoughts. I'm not very knowledgable on the GSUSA, so I really can't comment much on the program.

Move the references to Low and B-P from the lead-in to the history section.
~~History- the first date link is broken.~~
~~The promise and law are formatted differently.~~ The statment on God needs a cite.
~~Age levels- see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Numbers in words. Instead of 10-17, use ten through seventeen.~~
~~Mariner Scouts- link to the Mariner Scout article, link to the Sea Scouts article and note that it is a BSA program.~~
~~Scout is used in the article both capitalized and lower case. The BSA standard is that it should be capitalized. Either way, it should be consistent in the article.~~ project policy is upper case for Scout, Scouter, Scouting
Organizational structure- the Saul Bass statement is an an opinion and needs a cite. (For being the best work some people have ever seen, I have found nothing on it, nor do I think the GS emblem would be his best work, so what should we do with it, doesn't pass the google test. Darthgriz 9 8 03:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC))---delete part about best work. Saying he designed it is okay.Rlevse 03:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Controversy:
- ~~Since there are multiple issues, this should be Controversies.~~
- Suggest including American Heritage Girls and their formation in response to some of these issues.
- need more cites, specifically for:
  - "Some have considered this does not go far enough in banning discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation and others that they should ban gays and lesbians."
  - ~~"In November 1992 the parents of Nitzya Cuevas-Macias sued for the daughter to be permitted to participate even though she refused to promise to serve God."~~
~~Banning prayer at meetings- the second sentence is a fragment.~~
~~Creation of Studio 2B- need a cite, needs link to main article.~~
See also:
- ~~I'm not not sure why Boy Scouts of America membership controversies is here. I might be better included in the controversy section in some way as a comparison.~~
- My opinion is to use see also very sparingly. If it is important enough to include here, then it should probably be referenced in the article. For example:
  - ~~The GSUSA is a member of the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts.~~
  - ~~Many senior Girl Scouts are also involved in the Venturing program of the BSA.~~
References:
- ~~Reference 9 has two commas: "Goddard,, Jennifer"~~
- ~~A number of the references are using cite book when they should be using cite web.~~
- ~~Cite web references have each field on separate lines- this should be closed up.~~
- The book references should be in proper citation format.
- Other referenced sites should be in proper citation format.
External links- Again, my opinion is to use this very sparingly. If it is important enough to include here, then it should probably be referenced in the article. Again, use proper citation format.

I just finished up Tutorial: How to use footnotes- this should help clean up those references.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Peerreviewer output

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

Consider adding more links to the article; per WP:MOS-L and WP:BTW, create links to relevant articles.
Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:BTW, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006, but do not link January 2006.
Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
- Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “~~All~~ pigs are pink, so we thought of ~~a number of~~ ways to turn them green.”
Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a. ^[1]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note, I just glanced at the lede since this got posted on FAC. The second paragraph seems poorly organized to me. It reads like a random collection of facts, without a connecting thread. I'd also start with their substantive activities, and leave cookies for later. Just my (hopefully constructive) tuppence. Derex 21:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I have it reorganized a little bit, it does seem like a pile of random facts, I'm trying to get some connecting fillers to sumerize it if somebody wants to jump in with their suggestions on fixing the intro go ahead and be bold, edit if you wish. Darthgriz 9 8 00:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Troop

I've reorged the Organization section; however, I think we need a bit more about troop and troop structure as this are the most important unit within Girl Scouts. --Erp 21:22, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok that makes sense. I put in a request for main page FA on the same day as Thinking Day, BUT, apparently our free use logo isn't good enough, but I am going to attepmt to talk to GSUSA and see what I can do about that. I was a scout for 13 years I think they should listen. If not, I don't know what image we will use for it, not the chainsaw one, it's fine for the section, just not to represent the article, I don't want to be the face of Girl Scouting on Wikipedia. Darth griz⁹⁸ 22:10, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck btw I would be interested in getting a proper citation for the King quote on the Girl Scouts. I agree we need some more pictures but not sure from where. btw you might find Girl Scouting in Indiana interesting though I'm not sure what if anything we can use from it for the article. Also been having fun prowling old newspapers (admittedly that is primary research so can't be used); apparently in one incident in 1948 (according to the LA Times at that time) about 10 men in white robes and hoods turned up to tell two white girls to leave (they had been training a group of black girls in leadership) after searching their belongings. The article is interesting in reflecting the time (I'm not sure whether the 'girls' were over or under 18 and the article was careful to point out that the white girls weren't sharing eating or sleeping arrangements with the black girls). Well enough of an aside --Erp 23:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Indiana article also has photographic proof of a black GS troop in Indiana as early as 1921. Rlevse 00:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've also seen a NY Times article from early 1920s mentioning two black GS troops in a parade. Segregated troops existed early but I'm not sure when the first integrated troops arrived or integrated council camps. I suspect it varied from council to council.--Erp 20:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added new level information, but I think it can be better if anybody wants to take a look at it or pitch in. And GSUSA hasn't said anything back to me, but then again neither did my council when I asked them what I should do if I can't find my silver award, thankfully I did. But something tells me them won't get back to me before it goes up on the main page whenever that may be. Darth griz⁹⁸ 02:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

History

I've been doing some newspaper archive browsing and I'm listing below areas I think need working on. 1. Evolution of the organization. Apparently National Conventions were originally annual, then every other year, then every three years. When did these changes take place? When did girls start voting at conventions instead of just the adult leaders? 2. Anything about the attempt to admit boys which was defeated in the 1975 convention? 3. A complete list of national presidents with accurate terms in office 4. Council reorgs such as happened in 1963 and is in the midst of happening now 5. The bit on the logo doesn't really belong in the history section.

There were also some little bits and pieces in the newspapers such as apparently the American Legion attacked the Girl Scouts in 1954 as being under un-American influences. --Erp 00:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have heard hints that the BSA approached the GSUSA in the 70s or so about a cooperative venture or even a merger but was rebuffed. I know that Exploring worked with Girls Scouts and Camp Fire Girls from 1969 until it went co-ed in 1971. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That was also the era that the BSA started using the term "Scouting USA". It did not go over well with the Girl Scouts, IIRC. Diving into archives could be fascinating but too much probably would count as original research.--Erp 01:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That would be the Improved Scouting Program. I still have a bunch of material from that. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

True statements?

Are these statements correct? (I'm using them in the Boy Scouts of America membership controversies article.)

"The Girl Scouts of the USA accepts homosexuals and allows its members to substitute another word in place of "God" when reciting the Girl Scout Promise."[6]

"The American Heritage Girls is a Christian Scouting organization that provides an alternative to the Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA). American Heritage Girls' policies on gays and atheists are similar to those held by the Boy Scouts of America. It was formed by parents who were unhappy that GSUSA accepted lesbians as troop leaders, allowed girls to substitute a word more applicable to their belief for the word "God" in the Girl Scout Promise, and allegedly banned prayer at meetings." --Jagz 18:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, those are true, those should be cited in the article too, at least they were. Darth griz⁹⁸ 18:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I added the one citation from the article to the statements above. If there were other citations, I'm not sure what happened to them. --Jagz 20:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Age levels

The Age levels section needs to by synchronized with the main article Girl Scout levels (USA) per Wikipedia:Summary style. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

History section

There has been some criticism of the history section here Talk:Main Page#Girl Scouts of the USA appearing on tomorrow's main page (permanent link [7]Nil Einne 11:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

There was some vandalism at this point [[8]] that was then vandalized and reverted, so I think some of it has stuck. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 11:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Portal Tags

Why are there two links to the scouting Portal on this page? There is one in the infobox, and another in the "see also" section of the article. I see no use for the second use of the tag, and am removing it from the article. Twenty Years 15:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reference 34

Im bemused by reference tag 34, is it referencing that it stated something in the letter (i think not) or is it referencing part of the letter (i think so), in that case, shouldnt the reference cite be placed at the end of the section of the letter? Twenty Years 15:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you are Christian

"The GSUSA is a member of the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (WAGGGS), and has a long history of accepting girls from all backgrounds."

Does this really belong in the introduction? Doesn't the GSUSA have a long history of accepting Christian girls from all backgrounds, but is only just starting to open up to non-Christians? It is only after 1993 that it allowed substitution for "God" in the oath, and even now it isn't exactly accepting of atheists. Since they were highly restricted for 85% of their history, and still moderately restrictive for the other 15%, "a long history of accepting girls from all backgrounds" just sounds like it was lifted straight from the brochure. Sad mouse 17:03, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think this sentence is okay as it stands. The introduction should be a summary of the article. The article has sections on segregation, girls with mothers in prison and Lone Girl Scouting. So I think the sentence is justified. On a technicality, I think belief in God isn't part of a girl's background, as it can be changed. But the article isn't perfect, so you can think of an improvement to the sentence, then propose it! Kingbird 04:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I should also point out that the GSUSA (and for that matter the BSA) has accepted non-Christians such as Jews almost from the beginning if not the beginning (though individual troop action might have been and probably was a different matter). For instance in 1925 page 679 of the Journal of Social Forces, "Jewish Community Services" mentions both organizations as options for Jewish youth. It was the non-theists who were problematic. --Erp 23:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TFA

Here is the diff from the start of TFA to now: [9] --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 01:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, I kind of wish I had a chance to revert some of that today. Darth Griz98 03:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More Vandalism

When I browse this page yesterday I found the following statemement:

The People of Wikipedia are introducing subliminal messages into their articles that are sexist and racist. The site is run by the KKK, please help our organization stop them by adding this message into the other articles.

That is a clearly an attempt to invalidate the image of wikipedia and create misinformation, I hope that wikipedia's personnel could stop this vandalization.--Grojasp2 18:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Salaries and Compensation to Top Employees

Moved from article for discussion:

GSUSA is registered as a 503(c)(3) organization, but it pays its highest-raking employees salaries far more than what most non-profits pay their managers and employees. In 2005, Kathy Cloninger, CEO of GSUSA, received $333,238 in compensation, as well as $296,163 in benefits and deferred compensation. Florence Corsello, CFO, received $273,607 in compensation and $68,363 in benefits and deferred compensation. Total salaries and benefits of the other five best-paid employees ranged from $331,573 (Sharon Hussey) to $234,296 (Laurie Westley). In addition, GSUSA paid legal and public relations fees ranging from approximately $250,000 to almost $600,000 to various individuals and firms. Of the approximately 500 employees of GSUSA, 284 were paid more than $50,000 each. Paying such high salaries to so many of its employees brings into question GSUSA's legitimacy as a non-profit organization and its commitment to providing services to its members rather than excellent salaries to its employees.

2005 Form 990 for GSUSA: Return of Organization Exempt from Income Tax

The single reference simply shows that the numbers are correct. There are no references or context for the first and last sentences that form the meat of this "controversy." The GSUSA did not make it to the list of top 25 compensation packages for non-profits in 2006 [10] or 2005 [11]. By comparison, Roy Williams, Chief Scout Executive of the Boy Scouts of America, was compensated $916,028 in 2005. In 2004, Williams was compensated $486,083 or 0.33% of total expenses, [12] and in 2005 Cloninger was paid $333,238 or 0.41% of total expenses. The national average for compensation was .34% in 2005, but compensation was higher for areas in the mid-Atlantic and lower in the mid-West; the GSUSA is headquartered in New York City and the BSA in Dallas.

I did a cursory search and have found nothing on any controversy involving Cloninger's compensation. This section appears quite baseless. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 01:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to remove date-autoformatting

Dear fellow contributors

MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.

There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:

Disadvantages of date-autoformatting

(1) In-house only

(a) It works only for the WP "elite".
(b) To our readers out there, it displays all-too-common inconsistencies in raw formatting in bright-blue underlined text, yet conceals them from WPians who are logged in and have chosen preferences.
(c) It causes visitors to query why dates are bright-blue and underlined.

(2) Avoids what are merely trivial differences

(a) It is trivial whether the order is day–month or month–day. It is more trivial than color/colour and realise/realize, yet our consistency-within-article policy on spelling (WP:ENGVAR) has worked very well. English-speakers readily recognise both date formats; all dates after our signatures are international, and no one objects.

(3) Colour-clutter: the bright-blue underlining of all dates

(a) It dilutes the impact of high-value links.
(b) It makes the text slightly harder to read.
(c) It doesn't improve the appearance of the page.

(4) Typos and misunderstood coding

(a) There's a disappointing error-rate in keying in the auto-function; not bracketing the year, and enclosing the whole date in one set of brackets, are examples.
(b) Once autoformatting is removed, mixtures of US and international formats are revealed in display mode, where they are much easier for WPians to pick up than in edit mode; so is the use of the wrong format in country-related articles.
(c) Many WPians don't understand date-autoformatting—in particular, how if differs from ordinary linking; often it's applied simply because it's part of the furniture.

(5) Edit-mode clutter

(a) It's more work to enter an autoformatted date, and it doesn't make the edit-mode text any easier to read for subsequent editors.

(6) Limited application

(a) It's incompatible with date ranges ("January 3–9, 1998", or "3–9 January 1998", and "February–April 2006") and slashed dates ("the night of May 21/22", or "... 21/22 May").
(b) By policy, we avoid date autoformatting in such places as quotations; the removal of autoformatting avoids this inconsistency.

Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis/ The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony (talk) 09:06, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reliance on New Age Philosophy

An IP just added this content:

Added content

In the summer of 2008 GSUSA is introducing a new "Girl Scout Leadership Experience," essentially a new curriculum, titled "Journeys." The first series of books, one for every level of scouting, will be released this summer called "It's Your World - Change It." The blueprint for this new curriculum came from the Girl Scouts Arizona Cactus-Pine Council, which decided they needed to be "re-founded." To oversee the process, they naturally hired facilitators -- in this case, from the Ashland Institute, which specializes in a practice known as Transitional Awareness, and is led by Michael Cecil, the former leader of the Emissaries of Divine Light cult, founded by his father. The adult leadership program developed by Ashland for GSUSA is called "Coming Into Your Own" and reveals the New Age nature behind the "Girl Scout Leadership Expereience". Cited in this new cirriculae are other partners of the Ashland Institute including The Fetzer Institute, where a broad assortment of mystical, New Age resources is offered. Thomas Merton, the Dalai Lama, David Steindl-Rast, and other mystics are touted. In this new plan for girls, The Ashland Institute lists eleven resources for their participants, the majority of which are other New Age/New Spirituality promoting groups, such as Collective Wisdom Initiative, Co-Intelligent Institute, The Millionth Circle (to "shift planetary consciousness" it says), and The World Cafe. Also introduced is the "Covenant of the Goddess." It's a Wiccan website which, among other things, describes their awards program. There's the "Over the Moon Award" for ages 8-11 and the "Hart and Crescent Award" for ages 12-18. The awards are offered "to any young person...who is a member of any nature-oriented religion (Wicca, Druid, Asatru, Native American, etc.)." What does this have to with the Girl Scouts? The Girl Scouts recognize these awards, which may be worn on the Girl Scout uniform. When parents began calling local Councils to question the cirriculum, GSUSA issued a communications alert, giving local organizations "talking points" that included among other things the following excerpts: "Among the accusations are that Girl Scouting has been captured and brainwashed by New Age theorists." "We have not, across the Movement or at GSUSA, abandoned our roots." The GSUSA website states the following: "Juliette Low [founder of the Girl Scouts] might say to us today, 'Follow my spirit, not my footsteps. Lead from the heart into the unknown.'" In February 2008, the Kentuckiana Council, located in Louisville, KY issued the following statement in their COuncil newsletter:

"At the workshop, preview the first of the new materials supporting the New Leadership Experience for Girls. Engage in ideas on how to bring the program to life for girls. Take an inward journey to build your own self- knowledge and self-confidence (through the leadership advice of the Ashland Institute). Discover, connect, and take action on how we can prepare the Girl Scout movement for the new changes. Embrace the girl-led, experiential, and collaborative New Leadership Experience for Girls commitment. Assist in rolling out the material to all of Kentuckiana. Serve as a positive resource in the New Leadership Experience for Girls"

The program will release nation wide in the fall of 2008.

None of this is referenced. Due to its nature, I have moved it here for discussion. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like it was mostly ripped from a blog: [13] --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 16:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'd be glad to reference, just new to adding stuff on here, don't know how, so if you'd not mind giving me a lesson, I would love to give you the sources. Some are from blogs, some are from individual Council websites, and some from direct communications from Councils (such as the Council newsletter I referenced). Sorry for the confusion, just bear with me while I get the hang of this, Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seri909 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry...some is also from GSUSA and Ashland INstitute websites. Also forgot to sign my username last time...sorry! Seri909 (talk) 16:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I left a welcome menu on your talk page and some comments. Please don't add this content again without some discussion. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 16:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I revised and cited, and I think I might have it. Would you all mind looking this over and letting me know what else needs to happen before it could be posted? Thanks so much!Seri909 (talk) 18:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the summer of 2008 GSUSA is introducing a new "Girl Scout Leadership Experience," essentially a new curriculum, titled "Journeys." The first series of books, one for every level of scouting, will be released this summer called "It's Your World - Change It." ^[2]

This new curriculum was developed in conjunction with the Girl Scouts Arizona Cactus-Pine Council, and the Ashland Institute ^[3], which specializes in a practice known as Transitional Awareness, and is led by Michael Cecil, the former leader of the Emissaries of Divine Light cult, founded by his father ^[4].

The program developed by Ashland for GSUSA is called "Coming Into Your Own" and reveals the New Age nature behind the "Girl Scout Leadership Expereience" ^[5]. Cited in this new cirriculae are other partners of the Ashland Institute including The Fetzer Institute, where a broad assortment of mystical, New Age resources is offered. Thomas Merton, the Dalai Lama, David Steindl-Rast, and other mystics are touted.

The Ashland Institute lists eleven resources for their participants, the majority of which are other New Age/New Spirituality promoting groups, such as Collective Wisdom Initiative, Co-Intelligent Institute, The Millionth Circle (to "shift planetary consciousness" it says), and The World Café ^[6].

Also introduced is the "Covenant of the Goddess." It's a Wiccan website which, among other things, describes their awards program. There's the "Over the Moon Award" for ages 8-11 and the "Hart and Crescent Award" for ages 12-18. The awards are offered "to any young person...who is a member of any nature-oriented religion (Wicca, Druid, Asatru, Native American, etc.).^[7]."

When parents began calling local Councils to question the cirriculum, GSUSA issued a communications alert, giving local organizations "talking points" that included among other things the following excerpts:

"Among the accusations are that Girl Scouting has been captured and brainwashed by New Age theorists."

"We have not, across the Movement or at GSUSA, abandoned our roots."

In their publication, The Flowering of the Girl Scouts of the Arizona Catcus-Pine Council^[8], staff person Mary Mitchell is quoted as saying:

“Resources are aligning. A female warrior of the spirit has been given the message and brought forward a mission — she is assembling her army of warriors (strategists, guides, intuitives, realists, implementers, and bridge builders). The mission must be achieved. There is no option to fail, because to fail is not only to fail ourselves, but is to fail in our charge to change history.”

The same publication includes the passage:

"Juliette Low [founder of the Girl Scouts] might say to us today, 'Follow my spirit, not my footsteps. Lead from the heart into the unknown.'"

In February 2008, the Kentuckiana Council, located in Louisville, KY issued the following statement in their Council newsletter^[9]:

"At the workshop, preview the first of the new materials supporting the New Leadership Experience for Girls. Engage in ideas on how to bring the program to life for girls. Take an inward journey to build your own self- knowledge and self-confidence (through the leadership advice of the Ashland Institute). Discover, connect, and take action on how we can prepare the Girl Scout movement for the new changes. Embrace the girl-led, experiential, and collaborative New Leadership Experience for Girls commitment. Assist in rolling out the material to all of Kentuckiana. Serve as a positive resource in the New Leadership Experience for Girls"

The program will release nation wide in the fall of 2008^[10].

I had just done a review at User:Seri909/sandbox. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

Proper Use of Girl Scout Logo

The complete Girl Scout logo is considered to include both the "three faces" and the words "Girl Scouts," either below or to the right of the faces. In its entirety, the logo is know as a "lockdown" because of the requirement that it be used in its entirety, with both elements present.

Addditionally, official approval for use of the logo must be obtained from Girl Scouts of the USA. Please contact trademarks(at)girlscouts.org to obtain permission and a correct, complete logo. For more information, see the copyrights and trademarks page of Girl Scouts of the USA's official website.

Similar groups

I removed the following:

More recently, the Frontier Girls formed in 2007 for very similar reasons, but allows non-Christians to join.<ref name="FG">{{cite web | title=Frontier Girls | url=http://www.frontiergirls.com/index.html | accessdate=2008-09-22 | quote="...our programming is open to girls of any faith...."}}</ref>

since I think it is too insignificant to include (2007 IRS 990 form states it has a membership of 25 girls). --Erp (talk) 02:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree; they are not really notable yet. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:27, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Other changes to section

Camp Fire is two words, and it was founded two years before Girl Scouts. I would appreciate taking out "some of the creators of boy scouts" if those creaters aren't named. And the 750,00 is out dated--Campzanika (talk) 21:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I made it two words, and "fact" tagged the other parts. If you have reliable sources that we can cite for the updates, that would really help! Katr67 (talk) 22:07, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here are two references <ref>http://www.alicemariebeard.com/campfire/history.htm</ref><ref>http://www.campfire.org/all_about_us/history.asp</ref> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Campzanika (talk • contribs) 22:22, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the New York times article from 1912 announcing the "Campfire Girls of America". Among others, it lists Daniel Carter Beard, Lee F. Hanmer, Ernest Thompson Seton; also Mrs. James E. West.

Marshall, Edward (1912-03-17). "Girls Take Up the Boy Scout Idea and Band Together" (PDF). The New York Times. Retrieved 2009-01-29.

--—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Founded as Counter part to Boy Scouts

Camp Fire Was actualy formed as the counter part to Boy scouts. they have similar structures and have some of the same founders. Girl scouts was based on the British Girl guides. I think this sentence should be deleted--Campzanika (talk) 21:36, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The GSUSA was started as the female counterpart of the BSA, but did not receive support from the BSA as the Camp Fire Girls did. The GSUSA started as Girl Guides of America, but changed their name to capitalize on the successful Boy Scouts of America. James E. West objected to the use of "Scouts", but never legally pursued any action, probably due to GSUSA support by Baden-Powell.--—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From its inception it was controlled by women

It was based the British Girl Guides start by Robert Baden Powell. Camp Fire was started by a man too and then became controlled by women. Perhaps instead of being rude and calling out the YWCA and Camp Fire this sentence could be deleted.--Campzanika (talk) 21:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To be exact it was based on the Scouting movement (Boy Scouts/Girl Guides) that Baden Powell started. However the BSA and Campfire also pulled in a lot of homegrown US traditions (some of which later entered the broader Scouting movement). The GSUSA seems to have come more directly from the British movement but was independent organizationally of it (only later did things like WAGGGS and WOSM get started). Having girls involved in scouting to a great degree seems to have been started by the girls not by the adults, male or female, (apparently girls were getting together to form patrols both in the US and in Britain before the adults decided to set up separate organizations for them). I agree we should bias in the article. --Erp (talk) 18:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Girl Scout Cookies

Why aren't the ever so tasty, and savory cookies that girl scout sell near malls, and grocery stores not even mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.201.191 (talk) 04:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Slogan

I added the Slogan to the Law, Promise, and Motto section; while not as well known as those three, it's mentioned in the Handbooks and is required to know for at least one badge (Girl Scouting in the USA) Lovellama (talk) 17:34, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update

Hard to believe this was ever a FA. I found several inaccuracies and some undertones of misogyny, stunning. Will be updating. The Centennial is a Biggie! There was a a huge, 13,000, camp out for the 75th, will look for info. Girl Scout Lingo (glossary)http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/glossary/, would like to work that in. Learned this at the world center at Pune: Namaste! DocOfSoc (talk) 14:38, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Would love to bring this back up to FA status. Research is what I do, and need help to bring this story up to standard. Is the real story of how Juliette met Baden-Powell documented? Or is it a part of our lore? Checking on chronology on Girls organizations around 1911. Input welcomed. Namaste...DocOfSoc (talk) 00:23, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

B-P met Low at a luncheon in Lincoln in May 1911. It appears that he considered marriage, but decided that any potential bride should share his interests in the outdoors and be able to accompany him on his adventures.

Jeal, Tim (2001), Baden-Powell, Yale University Press, pp. 426–427, ISBN 0-300-09103-6

See Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Resources for more resources. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I updated the membership from the 2009 Annual Report. Numbers are always as of the end of the year.
There are a lot of references to official GSUSA sites. These need to be kept to a minimum, as this is a primary source. Needs more third-party sources.
The list of presidents and CEOs would be better in separate articles. See Chief Scout Executive and List of national presidents of the Boy Scouts of America.
Cites need a lot of work. The established style uses templates, and a lof of the current references are raw links.
~~WWII and Air Scouts belong under the History section.~~
~~Ideals (Promise, etc.) should move up.~~

---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:05, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Centennial

Centennial stamp to be released in 2012:

---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:52, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Membership Controversies

From what I read in the BSA page, there are membership controversies regarding gender, so I see it as being applicable that the same should be put here. As I am presuming that males are prohibited from joining the GSUSA. My point is that it is ridiculous to have it on the male version of scouting and not on the female version when they are both as restrictive in the gender of their youth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JVDnh3 (talk • contribs) 13:24, 6 September 2011 (UTC) [reply]

I am not aware of any notable incidents, such as litigation when a boy tried to join the GSUSA, thus the gender issue is not controversial.

Violation of WP:NOTADVERTISING?

The Section 100th Anniversary seems to be an advertisement of the upcoming celebration.

Nqs (talk) 09:25, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It needs to be trimmed and toned down. Stuff like "world famous" needs to go as does much of the non-national content. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 09:36, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also "They have made a new cookie for this celibration. Savannah Smiles. Make sure to try them out." does not strike me as brilliant, neutral writing. Chris857 (talk) 15:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

History

Thre were Girl Guides in the UK from 1910; as the original name of the Girl Scouts of the USA was Girl Guides of the USA, shouldn't the debt to the UK organisation that pre-dated the US one be made more clear? Reading this article it implies that the GSUSA arose out of nowhere, rather than it was inspired by a girls scouting organisation that already existed in the UK. 86.134.91.248 (talk) 09:06, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Featured article?

This article was promoted to FA status in 2006. Since then, the substantial editing it has undergone has resulted in a number of problems, including redlinks, citation needed tags, scattershot information included in the Issues and 100th Anniversary sections, and inconsistent citation formatting, including bare URLs. Some of the material added in that time may also be a bit promotional (e.g., paragraphs 2 & 4 of the lede). Please help improve this article to Featured article status. 71.139.148.214 (talk) 13:50, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Homesexuality

Hello.This statement isn't supported by the sources: "The debate over this issue is split between those who feel that the policy should avoid and prevent discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, and those who question the inclusion of lesbians.[60][61]" The first source is really scanty and doesn't seem reliable for much. The second is a religious blog. Beyondallmeaning (talk) 20:29, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For the information of any editors working on this article, the above user "Beyondallmeaning" was a sockpuppet of an indefinitely blocked user and has also been indefinitely blocked [15]. The user should not have been making any edits at all so the first comment in this section may be disregarded.Smeat75 (talk) 12:55, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GSA/GSUSA clarification

The relationship between GSA (Clara Lisetor-Lane) and GSUSA (Daisy Low) was confusing. I added the some more details from the cite, including the lawsuit threat and GSA's demise.

There also seems to be some confusion between the "GSA" and GSUSA" abbreviations, possibly from the tendency of USA citizens to equate "America" with "USA", but I didn't mention it because I don't have a cite for it. Jhansonxi (talk) 21:03, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is a pretty minor point, as the GSA was never a national organization, unlike the Camp Fire Girls. And yes, many people refer to the GSUSA as the Girl Scouts of America (and that link redirects to this article). But then the article on the BSA's Cub Scouting program started as the Cub Scouts of America. And many inside the BSA program use the term Venture Scouts instead of Venturing. -- Gadget850^talk 21:21, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Stuff

New Girl Scout Ranger Program Announced -- Gadget850^talk 22:02, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Logo

Looks as if there is edit warring going on abut whether the logo was deigned by Saul Bass or the result of a competition. Can people discuss the issue here please rather than reverting? Thanks. Tacyarg (talk) 18:18, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pamela Ryan

User has changed first the Founder name and then the Chief Scout name to Pamela Ryan - this does not seem to be accurate, and is unreferenced. I have reverted twice so don't want to do so a third time - can editors please discuss this on the talk page? Thanks. Tacyarg (talk) 20:21, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Girl Scouts official web page confirms that Sylvia Acevedo is currently the CEO. I have reverted the edit as vandalism and added a warning the IP talk page. Leschnei (talk) 19:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 June 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Editors note that WP:NOTUSA states that "USA" is acceptable as "part of a proper name". (non-admin closure) — Newslinger talk 07:59, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Girl Scouts of the USA → Girl Scouts of the United States – If that's not acceptable, then alternatives include Girl Scouts (United States) or Girl Scouts of the U.S., all per WP:NOTUSA. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 00:29, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. As mentioned in last edit, this is the organization's official name. USA is never "edited for style" in (1) official names of organizations, including nonprofits like Girl Scouts of the USA; (2) names of newspapers (USA Today); (3) trademarks or mottos ("Made in the USA"); or (4) U.S. subsidiaries of multinationals (Mercedes-Benz USA), all of which have "USA" in their official names.Mason.Jones (talk) 02:29, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: As noted above, MOS:NOTUSA contains an exception for when "USA" is part of a proper name. This is the proper name of the organization, as they officially call it (and as used in independent sources as well, as far as I know). See USA Today, USA Roller Derby, A1 Team USA, Team USA (professional wrestling), etc. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:20, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: This is one of the two proper names; the only reasonable alternative would be the name in full, Girl Scouts of the United States of America, which is getting a bit long for a title --Erp (talk) 04:30, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is the appropriate title. Rreagan007 (talk) 15:33, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Too incidental. USA is a standard abbreviation. Google: "Girl Scouts of the United States of America v. Boy Scouts of America." Hence, technically, the requested name change would still be wrong. Jim Percy (talk) 12:58, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

'Association with Planned Parenthood'

This is listed in the 'issues' section, although the very first sentence of the subsection begins 'Although GSUSA is not formally aligned at the national level with the reproductive health organization Planned Parenthood...'. It goes on to describe a controversy over a single branch of the Girl Scouts' decision to endorse a Planned Parenthood event. This wasn't about the Girl Scouts as a whole. Given that fact (and that the association in question ended fairly quickly), does it really belong in this article? Robofish (talk) 23:36, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here is an interview with CEO Cloniger on Todya in 2004. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKiQub0ZnA ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 01:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have not evaluated this site in any depth: http://www.honestgirlscouts.com/ ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 01:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well it definitely supports a particular set of conservative actions (and I wouldn't exactly call Betty Friedan a radical feminist but I suspect for this site any feminist is by definition a radical). BTW what is the current status of http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/ as a source? If it isn't a good source, this seems far worst (one can't tell the quoted material from the surrounding material and it is flat out difficult to read). --Erp (talk) 01:25, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

honestgirlscouts definitely has an agenda. And yes, the way the have their message plastered across every document makes it very difficult to examine the original text. I will have to look further, but htere might be a few useful offsite links. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 01:48, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence mentioned in the beginning apparently stems from mid 2012, and on 12 march 2014 it was altered to include "and abortion provider" by an anonymous user. I'm removing the "and abortion provider" part, because it seems very POV and pushing a narrative. Has no place in this article. Nietvoordekat (talk) 08:03, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Does not address 3rd party associations or independent associations, looks like laundry work to wash hands. Telecine Guy (talk) 03:28, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 August 2021 and 11 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): CatherineMLindsay.

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Use of the Term "Juliettes"

The article says that the use of the term "Juliettes" to refer to lone Girl Scouts is discouraged. I read somewhere that the term was phased out by the organization itself some time ago. I believe it was on another wiki. I've seen it used on some councils' webpages, apparently, that aspect of their websites hasn't been updated in some time. Other councils use the term "Independent Girl Members" instead. I feel this should be sorted out and detailed further in the article, but I'm terrible with Wikipedia citations. Tyrekecorrea (talk) 14:13, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with the above. I am a former longtime GSUSA employee. 68.198.85.24 (talk) 19:42, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[copyedit-1] See footnote

[2] ttp://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/leadership_journeys.asp

[3] ttp://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/leadership_from_the_inside_out.asp

[4] ttp://www.collectivewisdominitiative.org/files_people/Cecil_Michael.htm

[5] ttp://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/leadership_from_the_inside_out.asp

[6] ttp://www.ashlandinstitute.org/

[7] ttp://www.cog.org/projects/hartcres.html

[8] ttp://www.girlscoutsaz.org/atf/cf/%7BA4D32FFB-0ED7-4FE3-98D7-B051FB8B8CD7%7D/GSAZ_Flowering.pdf

[9] ttp://www.kyanags.org/u_photos/February2008-M.pdf

[10] ttp://www.girlscouts.org/strategy/faqs_leadership_aug1.asp

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