Talk:Gianna Bryant

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This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Redirect, January 28, 2020, see discussion.
Speedy delete, October 31, 2009, see discussion.

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As I noted while Gianna Bryant didn't merit a standalone article in 2009, when she was a toddler, she probably did merit one by 2018.

So, I think full protection of the page is no longer merited. Geo Swan (talk) 01:58, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to semiprotection by Metropolitan90 – Thjarkur (talk) 13:47, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I know information on Gianna if I may can I help :) Mariah L ski (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notable?

I have serious doubts about the notability of the subject. Seems like a case of WP:BIO1E to me. WP:BLP1E also applies to the recently deceased. Won't be surprised when the inevitable AfD comes along. WWGB (talk) 04:07, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. I also think that its in poor taste. It fetishizes the death of a teenager who wasn't yet a public figure, and adding more and more personal information on her may not be what the family wants. Those aren't wiki-policy reasons, just my two cents. It should be merged with the article about the helicopter crash.--Phibesfan (talk) 04:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Phibesfan, would you mind reading a couple of questions, then thinking about answering them?

Planet Earth is full of topics that meet our inclusion criteria, but which don't (yet) have an article. Do you remember Chesley Sullenberger? When an article about him was started, after his heroic landing on the Hudson, there were quite a few people who tried to get it deleted, as an instance of BLP1E. I did the same thing with Sully I did with GB. I did a google search restricted to PRIOR TO the big event. I linked to that search below, here it is again. Take a close look. GB was getting recurring coverage, in 2018 and 2019, because basketball experts, professional players and players at the elite amateur level, top-level basketball coaches, and sports journalists, all recognized she was a basketball prodigy. So, I think GB measured up to our inclusion criteria in 2019. That no one had gotten around to creating an article about her, then, should not weigh against creating an article about her now, after her death with her more famous dad.

So, how thorough was the web search you performed, prior to commenting here? Didn't it occur to you that she measured up to our inclusion criteria in 2019?
Do you think it is possible to write about any recently deceased person in a way that is not in bad taste, that does not fetishize them? Can you point to any specific passages that you think are in bad taste? Can you point to any specific passages you think fetishized her death. So, presumably, if you can be specific about what seems fetishistic about this article, what seems in bad taste, it can be fixed. Unless you don't think we can ever write an article about a recently deceased person.
As to "what the family wants". Traditionally, we take into account what the subject of an article wants, or "what the family wants", for biographies of individuals whose notability is genuinely borderline. But, in this case, you actually don't know what her family wants, do you? Personally, I think her notability is sufficiently far above borderline that whether her family would or wouldn't like her to be covered in a fair, neutrally written article should be irrelevant. Geo Swan (talk) 05:20, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If the subject hadn't died so tragically or wasn't the daughter of a famous basketball player, would this article exist? Gammawammallama (talk) 06:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

WWGB. Are you a sport person? I think the article would benefit from having someone who is an experienced sports person do some work on it.

If you are concerned GB is a BLP1E, what do you think is that one event? When I considered starting a new version of an article about her the first thing I did was a google news search restricted to articles from 2019 and earlier - so no articles about her dying in the same crash as her dad. I see what looks like hits for multiple events, prior to her death.

A highlights video, of some of her best plays went viral, about a year ago. Adult players, adult sport-commentators, were overwhelmed by her abilities. I think that is another event. When you read about it, didn't you also think it was an event? You did read about the viral video, didn't you?

I am not a Hockey guy, but I live in Canada. Every decade or so there is a Hockey prodigy whose prodigious Hockey skills are widely recognized, even when they are still in their mid-teens. Those boys measure up to our inclusion criteria. They would have been exceptional cases, who merited articles, even though they were still in their mid-teens.

Her father coached her team. He seems to have put a lot of effort into doing so. His coaching included using his connections to bring Gianna, and the other players on her team, on excursions to see, and then meet, the best adult female basketball players.

Those premier adult female basketball players voiced serious admiration of young GB's skills. I think it is a notability factor. A cynic might suggest they were insincere, and only voiced that praise to suck up to her doting dad. I don't think that kind of cynicism belongs in our contributions. WP:Verify, WP:NPOV and WP:RS all say it is the opinion of the RS we use as references that count. Our opinions, including our cynicism, should be kept out of our contributions. I saw no hint of cynicism in the RS. So I don't think cynicism over this praise should play any role in calculating whether she measures up to our notability criteria. Geo Swan (talk) 04:44, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was one of those Canadian boys who never made it (for good reason), but the papers at least noted what league I was in and how many points I had (few). Without stats or a team or any of that jazz, it's hard to consider her an actual player. Had crazy potential, but then she died. Happens to a lot of kids, this one just had a superstar father, so of course got celebrity attention. As she was never mentioned without him attached, pretty much all of this can and should be easily covered in Kobe Bryant#Personal life, I say. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:19, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If the paperwork for her nickname succeeds in securing a trademark, I would say her notability is established that way. Elizium23 (talk) 06:30, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is that even a way? In precedent, policy or persuasive essay, I mean? There are more registered trademarks than Wikipedia articles, so it seems notability can't be that simple. But novel approaches are cool, if they work. Good luck! InedibleHulk (talk) 08:05, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notability is not defined by the existence of trademark, as they are easy to get (this is what "trademark lawyers" do) and not included in our notability policies. The article subject was a kid, and 100% of her notability is defined by her dad. All of the news articles prior to her death carry the headline "Kobe Bryant's daughter" did x y or z.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 08:22, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not notable at all in my opinion. Especially considering most of the other victims did not get pages and wikipedia is not a memorial. Chr!st!ne would be a more interesting person to give a page to. BadMombo1660 (talk) 17:08, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

explanation

The "known for" field of the infobox said she was a prodigy. Another contributor removed this, with an edit summary saying no RS said this. I restored it, after determining RS did use this phrase. Geo Swan (talk) 06:16, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Geo Swan, I have replaced it with "skill" because calling someone a "prodigy" in Wikipedia's voice is WP:PEACOCKy. Sorry. Elizium23 (talk) 06:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mambacita citations

Can anyone locate citations describing the coining of her nickname? As a Spanish speaker, it appears very clever to me: "cita" is the feminine diminutive particle, while "Mamacita" means "lil' mama", so as a portmanteau, it is rich in meaning. Elizium23 (talk) 06:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Her father called himself "Black Mamba", hence tagged his daughter "Mambacita". WWGB (talk) 06:53, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add the protection template to this page to indicate the type of protection it involves. -- 67.70.33.184 (talk) 06:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done – Thjarkur (talk) 13:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add the notability template to this article. As evidenced on this talk page above, the notability of this topic is disputed.

{{notability}}

-- 67.70.33.184 (talk) 06:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

notability template added.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 08:28, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request

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Please add the {{current related|Death of Kobe Bryant}} and {{recent death}} notification templates to the top of the article. This article covers a recent death related to the aviation crash article Death of Kobe Bryant -- 67.70.33.184 (talk) 06:54, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

recent death template added. That is enough I think.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 08:27, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2020

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Please remove Category:Kobe Bryant, as per WP:OCEPON and WP:COPSEP, we do not categorise people by other people. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 10:43, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Request moot due to article being converted to redirect. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 16:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category addition

Regarding Category:21st-century American women, what is the precise scope of this category? Does it indeed include 13-year-old girls? Does it include female infants as well? What about a female fetus of 3 months gestation? I will note that Category:21st-century American girls does not exist. Elizium23 (talk) 05:47, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion elsewhere

Note that this article was the subject of substantial discussion in June 2024 at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red#Can someone good at 'formalizing' help me with the draft for Gianna Bryant?, resulting in a consensus there that developments since 2020 made the topic notable, and the rewriting by an experienced editor of a draft which had been declined at AfC on grounds first of notability and then of tone. PamD 19:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]