Talk:GROW (series)

Video games Low‑importance

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Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks:

Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks

AfDs

Cossacks (video games series) (2 participants)
Rat Race (video game) (7 participants)
Red Barrels (2 participants)
The Campaign Trail (Web Game) (23 participants)
Paper doll (video games) (5 participants)
TheoTown (10 participants; relisted)
Old Grandma Hardcore (6 participants; relisted)
WePlay AniMajor (2 participants; relisted)
Zero Hour (video game) (6 participants; relisted)

Merge discussions

Other discussions

No major discussions

Primary source concerns

I've just reverted this edit by Dgpop because neither of the tags seem appropriate to me. The two specific concerns were notability and an over-reliance on primary sources, so let's discuss these separately:

Notability - This guideline suggests that significant coverage in multiple third party RSes is sufficient to establish a topic as generally notable. Currecntly in the article at hand we see this coverage in citations to a number of sources listed as reliable at WP:VG/RS including websites (Destructoid, Rock Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Gamasutra, Game Set Watch, Indiegames, and the AV Club's Gameological Society), journals (PC Gamer and Wired), and newspapers (The Guardian and New York Times). Other RSes not cited also appear to cover the topic and could also be added. It seems apparent to me that the topic meets the general notability guideline.
Over-reliance on primary sources - We should start by recognizing that although third-party coverage is preferred in general, first party coverage is allowed to some extent (per WP:ABOUTSELF) when the claim being sourced is on the topic of the claimant, when there can be no reasonable doubt as to the authenticity of the claim, when the claim is not unduly self-serving, and when the Wikipedia article is not primarily based on that source. In the article at hand we have the vast bulk of it (in fact all prose save two sentences in the history subsection) relying on third-party sources such as those listed above. There are many references to the series webpage (eyezmaze.com), but a close examination will show that they are nearly entirely used to source the list of titles in the series and that they are specifically used to verify the release dates. By my reading this is exactly the sort of neutral self-reporting that is allowed under ABOUTSELF. The authenticity of the URL as the true website for the series can be verified at any number of the RSes listed in the article.

Do these seem like reasonable interpretations of the guidelines and policies, Dgpop? Do you have additional concerns that you would like to see addressed? How can we best work toward improving the article? -Thibbs (talk) 03:55, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with the above. The primary sources here are only being used to identify the games in the series and their release dates. When you eliminate those sources and the information they support, the rest of the article, which is several paragraphs of prose about the nature, development, and reception of the games, meets notability. There's no issues with sourcing here. --MASEM (t) 16:29, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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