Talk:Fulton Street station (New York City Subway)

See also: Talk:Fulton Street Transit Center

A note on edit history

Article title wars are depressingly common in the NYCS project, and this page has suffered more than most. It has probably been known by 4 or 5 different names.

The original edit history can be found at Broadway-Nassau-Fulton Streets (New York City Subway). For a while, the description of the station was co-mingled with the article describing the Fulton Street Transit Center project, and additional edit history can be found there. Marc Shepherd 21:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if this is non-rhetorical, but I'll respond anyway. I agree with you. This article has received massive abuse regarding naming, but it should end here. I replaced the en dash with a hyphen because en dashes are not to be used in article titles. See WP:NC#Special characters. –Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 23:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I generally agree with this name; I think dropping the final "Street" is a bit more common, but the individual station does use it, so it's no big deal. --NE2 03:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Common or not, this is the final choice, and I hope no more trouble is stirred up with naming issues. –Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 03:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

This is the "final choice" for this article. And if they MTA does in fact rename it once the project is finished, it's not. --NE2 04:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I have posted a message regarding this at Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen, where I requested a page history merge. Please check my message there if there's anything I missed. Tinlinkin 05:42, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no objections, so will move once the redirect is deleted. Kotniski (talk) 19:31, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

---

Fulton Street / Broadway – Nassau Street (New York City Subway) → Fulton Street (New York City Subway) — The Broadway – Nassau Street portion of the complex has been renamed to Fulton Street. [1] Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

• Additional Discussion is on the WikiProject New York City Public Transportation talk page. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:24, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

If the name has been officially changed, I don't see a problem. On an unrelated note, the layout of this article is cluttered and confusing. I hesitate to tamper with it, but I wish something can be done with it. ScottyBerg (talk) 20:55, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

What about the dab page that's currently at the proposed title?--Kotniski (talk) 09:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

That dab page is unnecessary. Fulton Street contains the exact same information and can be linked via a hatnote. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:34, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget that a page Fulton Street Transit Center exists already. Merger? — Train2104 (talk • contribs • count) 20:36, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't like the idea of merging the pages together until construction is complete and FTC actually opens. The two articles have very different scopes. The Fulton Street (New York City Subway) page covers the active station complex with all of its problems and the Fulton Street Transit Center covers the demolition and construction of a new unified complex. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:48, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

FTC is different than Fulton Street. Even the tiles on the A/C platform have been renamed to Fulton Street, irrespective of the fact that the unified centre hasn't been finished. I agree with the move, but it should be clear that Broadway-Nassau was formerly part of the name. Geoking66_talk 19:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe this is obvious to New Yorkers, but I don't see how the proposed title distinguishes this site from Fulton Street (IND Crosstown Line).--Kotniski (talk) 13:29, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

The proposed title comes from the station naming convention of the WikiProject – New York City Public Transportation. The parenthetical New York City Subway is used because it is a station complex on multiple lines portrayed on the map as a single entity with all platforms using the same name. To distinguish from the Crosstown line, a hatnote is at the top of the page leading to a disambiguation page. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:43, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, if that's the convention, I won't object. Can we get round to doing this now? Is everyone happy with the proposal? (With the possibility of a merge in the future.)--Kotniski (talk) 16:13, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fulton Street station (New York City Subway)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I will also take on this review, but after I finished reviewing 14th Street–Union Square station.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:45, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Early comments and lead

• Images are generally free-use or in public domain
• Earwig shows no outstanding issues beyond repeated common phrases (e.g. line or place names)
• The complex comprises four stations, all named Fulton Street. – I felt this sentence is unnecessary given it's alr stated earlier that "It consists of four linked stations"
• "the final one in the complex to be completed, opening on February 1, 1933" – "latest to be completed and opened on February 1, 1933"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 04:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• "in 2019, with 27,715,365 passengers." – remove comma
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 04:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 12:28, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

History

• Was it said how much Contract 1 and 2 were awarded? Include inflated value if sum is known.
  • Unfortunately, I do not know the exact cost of both contracts. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• Contract 2, giving a lease of 35 years – I guess should be "given"?
  • The lease was given to the IRT, not to Contract 2. I have fixed that now. Epicgenius (talk) 04:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• "contracted to" – "awarded to"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 04:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• "snowy weather" – maybe just "snow"? Or "heavy snow"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "caused real-estate values in the area to increase." – "caused the increase of real-estate values in the area"
  • I've reworded to something else. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "May 1906, amid a legal dispute" – remove comma. Also is this lawsuit resolved?
  • I've removed the comma. The dispute was resolved at some point - I can't find a source at the moment, but by the late 1900s or early 1910s, people stopped complaining about objects such as slot machines and advertisements. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "proposed lengthening platforms" – I think you missed "the"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "(equivalent to $15,703,571 in 2022)" – round to 15.7 million
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 04:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• "extensive reconstruction" of what? The station, or also the basements of the buildings too?
  • The basements of the buildings were rebuilt. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Dual contracts

• a west-east shuttle under 42nd Street. – I'm tempted to reword to "east-west". But if west-east is the convention, it's fine.
• the street only measured 40 feet (12 m) wide. – the street was only 40 feet (12 m) wide
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• World War I–related material shortages – would also link World War I or a relevant article on material shortages during the war.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• between Chambers Street and Wall Street, on the line's – remove comma.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• persistent at requesting – persistent in requesting.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• $2.254 million. – add inflated value
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
• $30 million, $4.7 million, $5.7 million – Also add inflated value
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
• I wonder if there are construction photos.
  • Unfortunately, I couldn't find any that were freely licensed. Given how long ago the line was built, though, some freely-licensed pics might become available within the next few years. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 10:35, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

IND expansion

• Again, add inflated value for currency values
  • I will add the inflated values in a bit. Epicgenius (talk) 16:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
    • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
• "convoluted layout also confused" – also is redundant
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

20th-century improvements

• "The passageways between the Eighth Avenue, Nassau Street, and Broadway–Seventh Avenue platforms all existed at the time, and the turnstiles were rearranged to allow free transfers." – "The rearrangement of the turnstiles allowed free transfers in the existing passageways between the Eighth Avenue, Nassau Street, and Broadway–Seventh Avenue platforms"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• I guess the proposed moving walkway never came to fruition?
  • It did not. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• ", as well as Bowling Green, Wall Street, Canal Street, Spring Street, Bleecker Street, Astor Place, Grand Central–42nd Street, 86th Street, and 125th Street on the same line" - I felt these other stations could be wrapped in a footnote instead at the end of this sentence.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 04:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• " and was still underway two years later." – I guess this is added because the project completion was delayed?
  • Yes. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The MTA tried to" – attempted to
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• " and it employed" – remove it
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 03:23, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

21st century

• Plans for a massive transit hub in Lower Manhattan, incorporating the Fulton Street station, – which incorporated
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "its four stations had been built by different companies at different times." – were built
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "was rehabilitated beginning in 2008." – "began refurbishments in 2008"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• Wonder if this source would be relevant to add. Or this
• "With the opening of the Fulton Building in November 2014, the Fulton Center project was completed," – "The Fulton Center project was completed with the opening of the Fulton Building in November 2014"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Station layout

• "The Fulton Street station contains various works of art." – "displays various artworks"
  • I have reworded this. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "and was commissioned" – remove "was"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "also contains digital signage with art" – "also features"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• " the mezzanine above the IND platform contained an artwork by Nancy Holt, Astral Grating" – " the mezzanine above the IND platform showcase Astral Grating by Nancy Holt,"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The work was uninstalled and relocated when Fulton Center was built." – to where?
  • It was placed in storage. Sadly, I don't know where it was relocated afterward, but it was not reinstalled in the station. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• For the pictures in the exit section, you might consider keeping four of them and use the multiple images template and place it at the beginning of the subsection.

Platform layouts (Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line, Nassau Street Line, Lexington Avenue Line platforms)

• Can the name mosaic be shifted earlier into the relevant history section? To prevent WP:SANDWICH
• "The platform is extremely narrow, causing congestion during rush hours." – has it been stated elsewhere how narrow the platform is?
  • I have not found a source for this, but it's only about 14 feet wide (for reference, each of the tiles in this picture is one foot wide). Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
    • Actually, it's even narrower than that: 13 feet 6 inches. Epicgenius (talk) 16:28, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "while the south mezzanine is open part-time" – is there an official source on the opening hours?
  • There is not. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Would reword the entire sentence: "The entrance to the north mezzanine is opened at all times, while the south mezzanine is opened at selected hours"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "comparatively narrow" – remove comparatively
  • I've deleted the entire sentence, which isn't supported by the source. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "caused congestion during rush hours." – I find this clause rather repetitive.
  • I've shortened this. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• Was it also stated how long the platform for IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line platform is?
  • In the "1940s to 1960s" section, it says: "During the 1964–1965 fiscal year, the platforms at Fulton Street on the Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line, along with those at four other stations on the line, were lengthened to 525 feet (160 m) to accommodate a ten-car train of 51-foot IRT cars". Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• Similarly for Nassau Street Line, move File:Fulton Street BMT 006.JPG somewhere earlier in the passage, maybe in the relevant subsection. Remove the other images
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "two side platforms, with downtown trains on the upper level and uptown trains on the lower level." – from this description, I rather say "stacked" or "split platform" instead of side platforms
  • I've changed it to "two tracks and two side platforms in a split platform configuration". They are still side platforms, but they're not stacked on top of one another; instead, the southbound track is above the northbound platform, and the southbound platform is above the northbound track. This is a result of the platforms being on the left side of their respective tracks, rather than both platforms being on the same side (i.e. west or east side) of the station in a true split-platform configuration. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The station was constructed on two levels" – "The platforms were stacked"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• b" the presence of a curve at Fulton Street. – remove "the presence of"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• Is there any significance to the "F"? For Fulton Street?
  • Yes, the "F" stands for FUlton Street. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• "there is a 75-foot-long (23 m) granite wall separating it" – "a 75-foot-long (23 m) granite wall separate it"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• Shift the Tilework trim detail and Column photos to somewhere earlier in the passage. Remove the other gallery photos
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
• Reconstruction photos of IND Eighth Avenue Line platform could also shift to the reconstruction subsection of the history section.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Overall comments

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Putting article on hold.--ZKang123 (talk) 07:14, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the review ZKang123. I think I've finally fixed the remaining issues. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 14:47, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Entrance to the Fulton Street station

• ... that the Fulton Street station (pictured) has a Sky Reflector-Net and murals salvaged from a dumpster? Source: Hughes, C. J. (January 31, 2009). "Taking the Adventure Out of Fulton St. Station". The New York Times; Dunlap, David W. (April 29, 2001). "Postings: Rescued McAlpin Hotel Murals From 1912 Find a Home in the Subway; For Terra Cotta, Terra Firma". The New York Times.
  • ALT1: ... that slot machines were ordered to be removed from the Fulton Street station (pictured) three days after it opened? Source: "Out Go Slot Machines: an Engineer Arrested Interborough Took Fulton-st. Station Without a Permit". New-York Tribune.
  • ALT2: ... that three days after the Fulton Street station (pictured) opened, slot machines had to be removed due to an advertising ban? Source: "Out Go Slot Machines: an Engineer Arrested Interborough Took Fulton-st. Station Without a Permit". New-York Tribune.
  • ALT3: ... that before the Fulton Street station (pictured) was renovated in the 2010s, a New York Times reporter said the station "might be a good spot for M.C. Escher to set up an easel"? Source: Hughes, C. J. (January 31, 2009). "Taking the Adventure Out of Fulton St. Station". The New York Times.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Jonathan Blow
  • Comment: More hooks later

Improved to Good Article status by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 13:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Fulton Street station (New York City Subway); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Epicgenius: Good article. You used a wrong citation for alt0 but I found the correct one in the article so it's good. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:46, 22 August 2023 (UTC)