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Use of "frac" vs. Unicode ½ vs HTML entity ½

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Hi folks,

I'm sure there's a good reason for this, but why is Fellini's movie 8½ described using 'frac' i.e. with {{frac|8|1|2}} (8+1⁄2)?

This seems to offer little improvement over the actual Unicode 'half' character ('½') which is used in the wikilink anyway. If a user's system doesn't support ½, then it won't be able to open the link to that article – though I suppose in that edge case, you could argue that at least this article might display OK even if the link doesn't work.

If Unicode is a stretch, how about an HTML entity? They've been a W3C recommendation since 1999, so unlikely to cause even the oldest of web-capable devices to break a sweat. That would make the film's title 8½ in the source, which is pretty human-readable if you can't have "8½".

I wouldn't have noticed if 'frac' worked. But on my Mac (running Firefox on Mac OS 11 Big Sur) the text appeared initially as "8 1/2", then after I looked at the source and subsequently cancelled, it started appering as "8+1/2"!

Looks like an issue with Template:Fraction, the Mediawiki codebase, or perhaps something else. The source for Template:Fraction appears to be here. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Template:Fraction/styles.css

Requested move 13 June 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 17:03, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of films considered the best → List of films voted the best – The current title has long been recognized as being far from ideal. The inclusion criteria are, and have for a long time been, that the movie in question must have been voted the best in a notable poll. Indeed, the WP:LEAD states that This is a list of films considered the best in national and international surveys of critics and the public. The proposed new title better reflects the actual contents of the list, and may also be helpful in preventing the addition of entries that do not meet the inclusion criteria. TompaDompa (talk) 18:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 19:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC) [reply]

Withdrawn alternative titles
  • Comment – Not against that title, but grammatically it still feels like we can do better. Browsing the list article, I noticed the language often flips between voted and ranked. So perhaps other candidates also include:
Although not for this specific list, a sub-list that only lists films that are ranked by film critics could be called List of critically-acclaimed films, in case someone sees the value in splitting that out. Just a thought! --GoneIn60 (talk) 06:41, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As described in further discussion, the term "ranking" does not properly suit this list article, so I withdraw these suggestions. --GoneIn60 (talk) 14:54, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I agree that the methodology needs to be incorporated into the title in some way. There might be better, more nuanced, titles which we can come up with, but the only question we need to address as far as this rename goes is whether or not the proposed title is better than the current one.
Betty Logan (talk) 08:30, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I'm not really crazy about these types of articles in general, but this would be a more accurate title for something that's just going after "well it's been in a lot of lists". Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:03, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. If we have to have this article (and arguably we should), its name should at least give as little weight to its content as possible. Tduk (talk) 14:14, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment: Any consensus in the alternative proposal? Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 19:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Courtesy ping to @Andrzejbanas, @Betty Logan, @GoneIn60, @Tduk, and @TompaDompa for the above comment. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 19:27, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"List of film rankings" and "List of highest-ranked films" feel rather poor. The first just sounds like it's a list of grades or rankings that films would be graded which is not really what the article consists of. " List of critically-acclaimed films" makes it sound open to just dumping any films that gets decent ratings on MetaCritic to be added which I also don't think is appropriate. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, "List of critically-acclaimed films" was a side note for some future sub-list of films ranked by critics only, if and when that ever happens.
When you say rankings aren't "really what the article consists of", I'd have to disagree. The term "rank" or "ranked" appears 32 times in the article, which is still a lot less than than "voted" (175 times), but it's still a significant number nevertheless. When we talk about where something places in an opinion poll, we can refer to its ranking in that poll. Makes perfect sense to me, but I respect your opinion. -- GoneIn60 (talk) 20:14, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's an example of what I'm talking about (excerpt from the list):
Vertigo (1958) was ranked number 1 with 39 votes when German film magazine Steadycam [de] asked 174 critics and filmmakers to vote for their favorite films
Clearly, it's natural to say that something was ranked in a certain position within the poll. Here, we can also see one reason why "vote" might heavily outweigh "rank" throughout the article; it is sometimes used 2-3 times in the same statement or claim. So we have to look beyond the numbers and just go by common sense. The term "ranking" is a natural fit in the title. -- GoneIn60 (talk) 20:22, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Using the term ranked in the article with the context of knowing what it's about. If I saw a bare link in a see also section that just said "List if film rankings" I wouldn't know it was about films that were placed highly on several best of lists.
List of highly ranked films is also problematic. If film criticism was as simple as lists and star ratings forever, I'd say this *could* slide, but for now I'd say no as that is not the case. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:05, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Also when I give this more thought, a list of rankings does seem to imply that there would be something along the lines of a top 10 or top 20 list, which is definitely not the case here. This list aims to only collect the #1 film in each category, listing multiple #1's from multiple sources. So regardless of how we feel about the interchangeability between voted and ranked in the article, without context, I can see how "ranking" might be misleading and ambiguous as a title and link. Let's axe it. -- GoneIn60 (talk) 14:44, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I will likewise state for the record that I find List of film rankings and List of highest-ranked films to be clearly inferior options. The clarity as it relates to the actual scope of the present article is much reduced when compared to my initial proposal List of films voted the best. TompaDompa (talk) 02:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Clearly inferior how? Actual scope is "much reduced" how? You never give an explanation. That's like saying, "I disagree because." I couldn't care less if you all use the alternative suggestions or toss them aside (that's why they're called suggestions), but I don't get the harsh reactions of "poor" and "clearly inferior". If the term "ranked" is so wildly inappropriate and out of scope, then you might want to clean up the mess in the article before worrying about the title, because "ranked" is littered throughout. -- GoneIn60 (talk) 05:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "Ranked" just means placed in an order, it says nothing about what that order represents. There are, for instance, ranked lists of films over at List of longest films and List of highest-grossing films where the ranking represents something completely different than it does in a "best film" poll. Thus, a title like List of film rankings or List of highest-ranked films is not particularly clear. That doesn't mean the word "ranked" needs to be avoided within this article, where the context has already been established. TompaDompa (talk) 14:28, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, I just responded to Andrzejbanas above coming to that same realization, thanks. For some reason, it was escaping my attention that each category was only listing the very top film (the #1 film) in each poll that was cited. My bad! -- GoneIn60 (talk) 14:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Popular culture, INACTIVEWP, WikiProject Lists, and WikiProject Film have been notified of this discussion. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 19:29, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Time Out Experts

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Time Out (magazine) is referenced a lot on the page, for instance: "Brief Encounter (1945) was voted the best romance film of all time with 25 votes in a 2013 poll of 101 experts conducted by Time Out London." One of the experts is Miss Piggy. Many "experts" appear to have no relationship to the romance genre, beyond sometimes being in the film industry. The use of experts here appears to be an example of WP:WEASEL. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 05:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Experts" is the word used by the source, so it is reliably sourced. WP:WEASEL states "...views that are properly attributed to a reliable source may use similar expressions, if those expressions accurately represent the opinions of the source". Nevertheless, I agree that many of the contributors to the poll are not authorities on the genre, so the descriptor is being applied very liberally. A more accurate description would be "industry professionals", or something along those lines. Funnily enough, given that Miss Piggy has worked in the genre for decades, I am more able to accept her as expert on the genre than many of the other people polled. Betty Logan (talk) 14:19, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stop Making Sense

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This is considered to be the greatest concert film of all time according to multiple critics. Should this be on the documentary list? Espngeek (talk) 14:26, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only if it's topped a critics poll. Betty Logan (talk) 19:01, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2024

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Please add the following under the Ireland subsection within the National Polls section:

79.154.53.240 (talk) 16:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 16:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "The 50 best Irish films ever made, in order". The Irish Times. 2020-05-02. Archived from the original on 2022-08-09. Retrieved 2024-10-22.
  2. ^ "The best Irish films of all time: the definitive top 30". Irish Independent. 2023-11-11. Archived from the original on 2023-11-12. Retrieved 2024-10-22.

Critics from Rolling Stones voted Black Panther the best superhero movie

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Critics from Rolling Stones voted Black Panther the best superhero movie. We already have readers poll in which The dark knight topped the list. We should give more importance to critics poll than readers poll, so I hope someone will add Black Panther to the list of best superhero movies. Please find the links below.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/black-panther-tops-superhero-film-poll/

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-lists/greatest-superhero-movies-of-all-time-1367814/ Ashokkumar047 (talk) 15:42, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In-house lists by a handful of writers are a dime-a-dozen and would quickly swamp the article if we permitted them. Betty Logan (talk) 17:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is this also the reason why Stephen Spielberg, Walt Disney, Tim Burton and John Hughes films are not listed here? There are countless in-house lists, and tabloid journalists that cite films (mainly blockbusters) such as Breakfast Club, Avengers: Endgame, Jurassic Park, Jurassic World, E.T., Caddyshack, Snow White, and Nightmare Before Christmas amongst the best ever made. Plus, isn't the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which Black Panther is part of widely considered to be a prime example of low culture, which is the opposite of entries on this list such as Citizen Kane, el Verdugo, and Gone with The Wind? Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 03:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is neither here nor there. For that matter, the list contains entries such as Die Hard, The Rocky Horror Picture Show, and Serenity—not exactly anybody's go-to examples of highbrow cinema. TompaDompa (talk) 18:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would also add that by including the genre entries we actively combatted the natural bias towards critical darlings. We have also included large-scale audience polls too. I also think that if we admitted periodical picks, not only would it make the inclusion criteria less transparent (if editors were permitting some periodicals and not others) it would probably favour more "high brow" offerings in any case. Let's face it, The Godfather is going to top more lists than Caddyshack. Betty Logan (talk) 21:27, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The American Film Institute claims that Jaws and Snow White are among the best films of all time in American cinema. Should this list be considered, or does it fall under in-house journalism or tabloid journalism similar to the lists claiming that Jurassic Park/World, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Fox/Disney's Planet of the Apes, Micheal Bay's Transformers, and Stripes are amongst the best films ever made?
AFI’s 100 YEARS…100 MOVIES | American Film Institute Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 01:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The poll is already cited in the article for Citizen Kane. It is invalid for Jaws and Snow White because they are not voted the best. Betty Logan (talk) 02:13, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no best TV list?

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Television

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References

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  1. ^ Cosgrove-Mather, Bootie (April 26, 2002). "TV Guide Names Top 50 Shows". CBS News. Associated Press. Retrieved February 16, 2022.
  2. ^ Fretts, Bruce; Roush, Matt. "The Greatest Shows on Earth". TV Guide Magazine. Vol. 61, no. 3194–3195. pp. 16–19.
  3. ^ Fretts, Bruce; Roush, Matt (December 23, 2013). "TV Guide Magazine's 60 Best Series of All Time". TV Guide. Archived from the original on December 24, 2013. Retrieved December 23, 2013.
  4. ^ Sheffield, Rob (September 21, 2016). "100 Greatest TV Shows of All Time". Rolling Stone. Archived from the original on September 23, 2016. Retrieved September 22, 2016.
  5. ^ Why The Wire is the greatest TV series of the 21st Century – BBC Culture
  6. ^ "The Final Top Ten Sitcoms". bbcattic.org. London: BBC. 2004. Archived from the original on 13 October 2014. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Espngeek (talk • contribs)

Comment I would suggest asking at WT:TV, as it's beyond the topic scope of this article. Betty Logan (talk) 16:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can make the article, and then have it approved for creation. I am currently making a TV episodes notable for negative reception list for entries that do not exactly fit the current worst TV shows lists but are still notable such as Principle and The Pauper (The Simpsons), Skibidi Biden (Stephen Colbert), and Last Forever (How I Meet Your Mother). Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 03:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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