Talk:Edward Hopper

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 March 2020 and 10 June 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Danshyguy.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Forgery?

How can a forgery of the famous painting be shown on this page. The real thing really looks different. Ellywa 12:29, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

artchive.com give free a scan of the painting. I'm sure they're not breaking copyright here, and even if they are (which I hghly doubt), it would be fair use... Dysprosia 09:29, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It is not a forgery as it does not claim to be the real thing. Fair enough it is a rubbish copy of Nighthawks but is not a forgery.

Holden 27

Can't we link to the real thing instead?...Amelia Hunt 22:52, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

<Jun-Dai 23:07, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)> It helps give an impression of his work, though at some point it will be necessary to find a better solution. Anyways, isn't there anything from the early part of his career that's public domain yet? </Jun-Dai>

Tate Modern

User:Sparkit asks Is there a specific link to Hopper at the Tate?

My impression is that the Tate doesn't have much of a collection of Hopper, but they had a retrospective last year. The online material for the exhibition is still available; Born on july 22, 1882 and died on may 15, 1967.

• Hopper exhibition at Tate 2004

In particular, the sketchbook viewer is interesting (probably requires flash and some of the pages took a while to load).

When that generic link to the Tate was added, the Hopper exhibit was probably on the Tate's front page.-- Solipsist 07:08, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Solipsist! I added it to the article. -->>sparkit|TALK<< 14:22, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Usage

"Rockwell exalted in the rich imagery of small-town America" looks like an error to me. Probably the author meant "Rockwell exulted in..." (meaning he rejoiced in it). Actually, in context, "Rockwell exalted the rich imagery...." (meaning he glorified it) would be even more apt and less cliche', but I'm not sure if that's what the author meant.

John Squire

"Also in 2004 British guitarist John Squire (formerly of The Stone Roses fame) released a concept album based on Hopper's work entitled Marshall's House. Each song on the album inspired by, and sharing its title with, a painting by Hopper."

I added this as I thought it an interesting piece of trivia (respected musician influenced by Hopper) tying in with the Tate exhibition in the same year.

Interesting indeed. feydey 23:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The article may misrepresent Hopper's main interest

The article emphasizes the kind of objects that are represented in Hopper's paintings. These objects and their relationships are described with words such as "isolation," "eerily," "lonely mood," and "forlorn solitude." But there is another aspect of Hopper's paintings. This is the purely aesthetic effect of shapes and colors. He may not have been interested in communicating or showing isolation in human life. When he said "…that his favorite thing was painting sunlight on the side of a house," he may have been expressing his true interest: pure shapes and colors. The article compares Hopper with Norman Rockwell, who always emphasized the relationships of the depicted objects with each other. But with Hopper, there is no narrative, story, drama, or comedy. There are simply striking forms, lights, darks, and colors. It is possible that achieving an aesthetic effect was the main purpose of Hopper's work, not the representation of human isolation and solitude. Similarly, the article Automat (painting) decodes that painting into a symbol of urban alienation and depression whereas Hopper may have been simply fascinated by the contrasts of colors and shapes.Lestrade 02:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)Lestrade

It's not up to us to decide. Verifiable sources need to be found, used and cited on such matters. Otherwise it's OR and POV. This talk page is certainly not the place for editors to discuss their own views, per WP:TPG. That is not how articles are written. Tyrenius 11:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it true that the article's description of Hopper's art is OR and POV? To assert that his paintings represent urban alienation, loneliness, and isolation presumes that the writer knows that Hopper's chief interest was to portray or illustrate these concepts. I suggest that Hopper may have have another purpose when he painted his pictures. This is especially suggestive in view of his comment that his favorite thing was painting sunlight on the side of a house.Lestrade 14:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)Lestrade

I am in complete agreement. The article reads more like an interpretive essay than an encyclopedia article. Charlesreid1 (talk) 21:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Some of the images are defaced

The painting “Hotel Room” has a naked person sitting in a chair near the bed. This person was not in the original painting.

The painting “Automat” has an entire scene drawn in the window. This painting is famous partly because of the fact only the ceiling lights were drawn in the window by the artist, as a reflection, giving the painting some of its meaning.

Unless an encyclopedia can be regulated and contributions made to it by credible sources, I’m afraid this utility is not only of little use to people, but may also serve to induce inappropriate or incorrect actions on people due to incorrect information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.126.46 (talk) 03:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out. Of course, you could have gone ahead and removed them yourself from the article...that's the beauty of Wikipedia. --Etacar11 13:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Chart

Per aesthetics of page design, the chart: echh. JNW 10:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

One image

Only one image? This gives the impression, as do so many art books, that this painter painted only one painting in his lifetime. Badagnani 02:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use restricts the usage of copyrighted images. Unless Wikipedia is willing to pay, we are content with even one image. feydey 11:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

A user had added some other images but they turned out to be manipulated/altered versions of Hopper's paintings (see above). --Etacar11 13:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Aaaah, ok. feydey 00:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

A possibly controversial point

In light of the recent - and very welcome - additions by Scotwriter, here's a little point I'd like to ask about. I don't have any access to most books on Hopper, however, I've read in the Amazon.com review of Levin's "An Intimate Biography" that Hopper "ridiculed, degraded and occasionally beat or bruised his wife". Much as I love Hopper's work, I believe that - if the review is correct - this is something that should be mentioned in the article. This isn't pretty, but if a major biography makes explicit mention of it, well, shouldn't we follow? --Jashiin (talk) 15:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

That's a valid point, but I didn't want to use that fact without confirmation from another source which I didn't come across.--Scotwriter (talk) 03:10, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I read the passages in Levin's biography years ago, and recall that they are pretty strong stuff--the descriptions of the battles, bloody affairs at that, with her fighting back, come directly from Jo's correspondence. It probably merits mention, but I can't see it getting more than a sentence or two, under his relationship with Jo. JNW (talk) 00:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

One or two sentences is precisely what I'm talking about. As for another source, well.. Levin's book is based on Jo's correspondence? And the book itself is, I take it, the standard biography? I mean, is another source really needed in this case? --Jashiin (talk) 14:49, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Recent interpretation

I've reverted the addition of a recently published interpretation of Hopper's work [1]: the content seemed strongly promotional in angle, as devoted to the author as to Hopper. Nor was it clear that the cited publication was of notable scholarship--it might be, but all that was offered was a link to Amazon/Kindle. Reliability of source, beyond 'it's an artist's perspective' ought to be established, and tone would need reworking as well. Discuss.... JNW (talk) 22:22, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Possible fork

The page now contains a long list of Hopper's works. This started out as a list of his "principal" works, but I think it's pretty clear that by now, it's becoming a list of every print and painting that Hopper ever created.

For a painter as important as Hopper, such a list is absolutely essential (and it turns out that what appears to be an exhaustive list already exists on German-language Wikipedia). Perhaps English-language Wikipedia should emulate what the Germans have done, and create a separate page containing an exhaustive list. Then the list on the Edward Hopper page could be reduced to Hopper's genuinely notable works--perhaps only those works which have been judged by the Wikipedia community to be sufficiently noteworthy to have their own pages.

I'd love to hear feedback on this. If, over the next month or so, opposition is expressed, I'll abandon this idea. But if there seems to be support, let's:

1. create a new page devoted to listing all Hopper's works;

2. make it as exhaustive as the German page; and

3. pare back the list on this page to include only the most important works that would be of interest to a viewer who wants to start by seeing the best of Hopper first.

Seaside rendezvous (talk) 11:24, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

That sounds like an eminently sensible idea to me. There should be little in the way of a "list" of Hopper's works on this page. This page should only mention works in association with specific comments on Hopper's work as an artist. Works should be mentioned on this page to illustrate points that are being made in the commentary. Bus stop (talk) 11:39, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I strongly agree. Charlesreid1 (talk) 21:34, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Skyfall house influence?

On the lastest Bond film, Skyfall, directed by Sam Mendes, you can see a typical "Hopper countryside" house. Maybe we should look for some references to this and, if true, add to the cinematographic influences? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.24.232.86 (talk) 19:18, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

'lottery dance pose'

'Tottery', maybe? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.55.219 (talk) 09:14, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect picture attribution

The image on the Hopper page called "Night on the El Train, 1918" here: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/File:Night_on_the_El_Train,_1918.jpg

I believe is not correct. It is actually Hopper's "House Tops, 1921". see: http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/58887.html?mulR=465989250%7C1

I do not know how to change or correct the information.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.51.17.35 (talk) 06:23, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

FYI: "Night on the El Train, 1918" is seen here: http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/pd/e/edward_hopper,_night_el_train.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.51.17.35 (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Bitterness?

He continued to harbor bitterness about his career, later turning down appearances and awards.

Not quite clear what he was bitter about. Was it the long wait for recognition? If so, why would he turn down awards? Valetude (talk) 17:36, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

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Introduction and Nighthawks

Terry Foote recently extended the introduction with a remark about Hopper's most famous painting: [2], [3]. I've fixed the latest edit but I am not sure if this material really belongs into the introduction. This is already much better covered in the section Edward Hopper#Subjects and themes. Per MOS:LEAD the lead shall give an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents. I do not think that this is the right spot to discuss the influences about one of the subject's painting, even if it is a well-known one. --AFBorchert (talk) 18:16, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Early oil paintings

A change I made has been reverted but the source I provided is reliable, from a peer-reviewed article in the distinguished art historical journal The Burlington Magazine. This is verified new research correcting older information.--ljs90 (talk) 1 October 2020 —Preceding undated comment added 15:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I added this back, as the Burlington Magazine is the original article that all the reporting came from. I have also included a NY Times source, for verification purposes. This story (i.e. that several of Hopper's early works were actually copied done from magazines) is all over the web and easily verifiable at this point. Here it is in in The Times and also the Smithsonian Magazine. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 00:20, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Re: Late 1940s...period of relative inactivity

The sources from the late 1920s onward discuss this is as some kind of combination of depressive episodes, poor health, and relationship issues with his wife. Also his extreme frugality is somewhat unusual and unremarked upon. It's not clear if this is simply a typical reaction of someone from the middle class to the aftermath of the Great Depression, which would make a lot of sense, or something related to his mental state. OCD is famously associated with the fear of spending money, for example. Viriditas (talk) 23:39, 27 August 2024 (UTC)