Talk:Edward Banayoti

Edit request by article subject

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Posted from OTRS#2019061610003984. The following changes have been requested by the subject of this article:

Please change: "Edward Sawiris Banayoti, formerly known as Ernie Anderson, a businessman of Egyptian origin based in Canada" to "Edward Sawiris Banayoti, a businessman of Egyptian origin based in Canada".

• In the article quoted there is no reference to "formerly known as Ernie Anderson".

 Not done

Per this source in the article, Edward Banayoti's prior legal name was Ernie Anderson. Orville1974^talk 02:55, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

References

Please Remove: "This press coverage brought him to the attention of Daphne Caruana Galizia, a Maltese journalist who’s work specialised in anti-corruption. She investigated Banayoti’s activities in Canada under his former name Ernie or Ernest Anderson.[5][7] In an article posted on 14 November 2016, Daphne Caruana Galizia quotes directly from an Ontario Tribunal and CTV News, a national Canadian newspaper linking Banayoti to a "ponzi scheme".[8] According to the article, Anderson was investigated on suspicion of dealing in fake mortgages through his defunct company Golden Gate Funds.[5][9] According to Canada's Globe and Mail more than 150 other investors put over $8-million into Golden Gate Funds, run by Anderson, before the company went bankrupt. A case was heard before an OSC tribunal before a settlement was agreed in 2009 in which Mr. Anderson acknowledged using investor funds not to invest in mortgages, as he told investors, but to cover operating costs and make payments to previous investors. As part of the settlement, the OSC demanded $4.7-million in monetary penalties.[10]"

• This statement is not true. Nowhere in the settlement agreement of this case can one find that Mr. Anderson acknowledged what is stated. See link [1]. This case was about an unlicensed fund which went bankrupt due to the wold mortgage market collapse at the time. This was quoted from another ctvnews article which stated the same thing but as you can see, from the official document from OSC this was not true.

 Not done

The source you've provided confirms the media source we have in the article. In the settlement agreement, page 4, para. 23: "Investor money was transferred from Golden Gate Funds LP to the bank accounts of other related companies, used to pay operating costs for Golden Gate Funds LP and other related companies used to pay monthly interest payments to other investors and, used to re-pay investors from a previous investment scheme operated by Anderson." (my emphasis added) Orville1974^talk 02:55, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

• I was known by another name which was taken up per tradition which is Ashraf Banayoti, when he married princess Aisha, but this was never my official name.

 Done

I clarified the tradition and current use of Edward Banayoti. Orville1974^talk 02:55, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is being used by people updating my page to officialise lies in statements, or validate articles which are untrue or unprecise, for the sake of information and what wikipedia sought to achieve, do not allow this to happen and as gatekeeper of wikipedia, I hope you work hard for such things not to happen.

Posted on behalf of the article's subject by Yunshui ^雲_水 11:28, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

The agreement indicated here did not use words which the media used, including words such as ponzi scheme. The issue the OSC had was due to the legal interpretation of who the firm was allowed to sell to. In fact as part of the settlement the two sides agreed to an interpretation to be understood by the firm thereafter. The settlement provided for a confidentiality clause and a settlement being required before information thereof would be released. The settlement itself was also equal to the entirety of the securities sold to third parties that the OSC deemed Golden Gate was not supposed to have sold to. By direct consequence there was no undue enrichment since the amount equated to the full amount of alleged mis-sold securities in addition to fines, penalties and other costs. The mention of several articles the author keeps quoting indicates a poor attempt to factually check the very basis of the allegations. A crime is a crime if a court deems it to be such. A settlement agreement is one where both parties agree that there is no criminal wrong doing but are paying a penalty without necessarily accepting fault. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FRANCISBONNICI (talk • contribs) 13:11, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for your interest in this article. The settlement agreement with the OSC indeed does not use the term "ponzi scheme", however as you point out, other media sources do. Wikipedia is based principally on secondary sources, so we should go by what the secondary sources say (i.e., the media groups) rather than try to interpret the primary source ourselves (i.e., the settlement agreement)

Here's a definition of a Ponzi scheme according to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission :

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that pays existing investors with funds collected from new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often promise to invest your money and generate high returns with little or no risk. But in many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters do not invest the money. Instead, they use it to pay those who invested earlier and may keep some for themselves.

And here is what was agreed between the OSC and Mr Banayoti in the settlement agreement:

22. Contrary to the Golden Gate Limited Partnership agreement, investor funds were not used to purchase an investment portfolio of mortgages.

23. Investor money was transferred from Golden Gate Funds LP to the bank accounts of other related companies, used to pay operating costs for Golden Gate Funds LP and other related companies used to pay monthly interest payments to other investors and, used to re-pay investors from a previous investment scheme operated by Anderson.

It is therefore not hard to see why the media would label this operation as a Ponzi scheme

As for your point regarding "no undue enrichment", there is a source which quite clearly shows that as of 2012, none of the financial penalty had actually been paid to the OSC in order to reimburse investors. Do you have a more recent source which shows that all or some of the agreed upon amounts were paid? This would be very useful for the article.

Also, as to your comments about what is considered a crime: This wikipedia article does not state that Mr Banayoti was convicted of a crime, it states that he entered into a settlement agreement with the OSC. However, to be clear, the settlement agreement uses the term "illegal distribution and unregistered trades of Panama Opportunity Fund securities" and also goes on to state that "By engaging in the conduct described above, Anderson and Golden Gate Funds LP have breached Ontario securities law by contravening section 25(1) and 53(1) of the Act, particulars of which are set out below, and has acted contrary to the public interest.". So it is clear that the OSC and Mr Banayoti agreed that the latter acted illegally and breached Canadian law in his actions. This is presumably also why Mr Banayoti was banned by the OSC as part of the agreement to act as a director or officer of an investment firm TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 12:48, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

References

So what's inappropiate, exactly?

@Bbb23 Would you care to elaborate on why you reverted my edits? It seems incontrovertible that the guy is a crook and uncontested that he is an arms dealer. I'm attributing pusillanimity to your action. Please prove me wrong. Mcewan (talk) 02:10, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

I've made a compromise edit. Although I would personally agree with the term 'fraudster' (as would certainly many of the journalists who investigated the fraud) it's worth noting that even Bernie Madoff hasn't warranted that label on his wikipedia page.

Hopefully with this compromise we can make it clear in the introduction what the subject is most known for (i.e. operating an investment fraud) while avoiding labels. TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 09:54, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Ponzi scheme

@TheSLEEVEmonkey: I inserted the word "allegedly" in the lead because (a) the cited source quotes an ex-attorney of the subject, who would clearly have a biased view; and (b) unrelated sources that define what a ponzi scheme is cannot be synthesized into a conclusion stated in Wikipedia's voice. See WP:SYNTHESIS. The word "allegedly" is there to make it clear that it is not Wikipedia making this conclusion. ~Anachronist (talk) 21:43, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Point taken, I'll revert for now and try to think of a different wording which more accurately summarizes the sources TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 13:40, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. If reliable sources don't describe the events as a ponzi scheme, then the term probably doesn't rise to a level of importance that warrants mentioning it in the lead, although the attorney's quotation could be included in the body.

Full disclosure: I am a WP:OTRS agent who happened across an email to OTRS from the subject of this article, who has commented above and is now blocked. While OTRS agents don't get involved in content disputes, it did seem he had a valid WP:BLP concern about the lead paragraph, so I made a surgical change. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:57, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Request from subject of article

Hello. I work for Edward Banayoti and wish to suggest a few revisions to this article.

After reading the history of this entry and this talk page, I understand that over the past year, Mr. Banayoti or others affiliated with him (I don’t know the details) made edits to this article which were disruptive and interacted with editors on this talk page and elsewhere in inappropriate ways. That is done. I am disclosing my interest, here and on my user page; I have never edited Wikipedia before; and I will avoid editing this article directly and instead will make suggestions here on the Talk page.

The first, and most important matter to address, is the repeated reference to a “Ponzi scheme.” This was already dealt with in the latest section of this Talk page: there is no reliable source that states that Mr. Banayoti ran a Ponzi scheme, and as Anachronist mentioned above, the only sources are a blog post and a quote from Mr. Banayoti’s biased ex-attorney.

Obviously, the problem is not solved by adding the qualification “allegedly.” That word merely gives cover to a powerful attack by one unreliable individual.

I therefore make two suggestions:

• That the second sentence of the article be changed from “He allegedly ran a Ponzi scheme...” to “He violated Canadian securities law...” which is unbiased, factually correct, well-sourced, and in keeping with the policies of Wikipedia.
• That the third paragraph of the Career section be revised to clarify that only Mr. Banayoti’s ex-attorney linked Banayoti to a Ponzi scheme—not CTV News, as the language currently implies.

JosephChenPanz (talk) 13:04, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

So that your request gets noticed, JosephChenPanz, please follow the instructions at WP:COIREQ. Specifically, you'll need to add the {{edit COI}} template to your request above. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:27, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Cordless Larry, for the advice. I considered making a formal edit request in the way you suggested, but thought it was more appropriate to attempt to reach consensus on the matter first. Is that wrong? JosephChenPanz (talk) 13:11, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

That makes sense - it's just that I doubt this page gets much traffic, so you might not get any input on the proposal. It's worth waiting a few days to see though. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:30, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank youJosephChenPanz (talk) 16:15, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

​ Declined

Request #1, ponzi scheme: I've been on the hunt to find a reliable source for your request. I could not find a reliable source to support your request.

Request #2, to revise the 3rd paragraph in the Career section: We only implement specifc edit request. We need to know exactly what changes you want made.

Come back when you have considered my concerns and imporved you request, and place {{request edit}} again. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page 17:54, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Edit request (2nd try)

I am sorry my previous request was insufficiently specific. I will try to be more specific this time.

1. Please change the second sentence of the article from "He allegedly ran a Ponzi scheme..." to "He violated Canadian securities law...". This is based on the 2009 OSC settlement, which states that Banayoti "breached Ontario securities law." The settlement makes no mention of "Ponzi scheme," nor does any other reliable source, to my knowledge. If the OSC settlement is unacceptable, as it is a primary source, there is a secondary source (an article in Malta Today) that states: "As Ernest Anderson, he was the object of a financial investigation in Canada in 2009 on suspicion of being implicated in dealing in fake mortgages through his defunct company Golden Gate Funds. The affair resulted in a settlement with the prosecutor's office." Again, Banayoti is not described as having been involved in a Ponzi scheme, but rather as having been under "suspicion of being implicated in dealing in fake mortgages," etc.
2. Please change the third paragraph of the Career section deleting the first two sentences, as they are sourced to a blog and should not be included - especially in an article about a living person. The remaining sentence then can read: "In 2005 the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) opened an investigation into Banayoti's company Golden Gate Funds, an unlicensed investment firm marketing its products to the public."

Thank you, JosephChenPanz (talk) 07:44, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

@JosephChenPanz: I've gone deep in this edit request more than I normally would.

Request #1: Primary sources are allowed with caution. They must not be used for analyzation or interpretation. However, any other policy regarding primary sources puts extra restrictions on WP:PRIMARY. In this case, WP:BLPPRIMARY, which prohibits court records or other public documents. So with that, your first source provided is disqualified. As for your 2nd source, it did not explicitly state anything about violation of security laws. I understand you request to remove the ponzi scheme part, so while Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError" exist preventing me from making edits, please review my revision proposal.

Please review: He allegedly ran a Ponzi scheme was the subject of a financial investigation for suspicion of fake mortgage deals through his unlicensed Canadian investment company Golden Gate Funds LP,[2] and entered into a settlement with the Ontario Securities Commission in 2009, agreeing to pay $4.7-million in financial penalties.

Request #2:

• Sentence #1: SOLID  Declined The source provided (the one that is not related to name change) is a magazine blog, and not a personal blog. Per WP:NEWSBLOG, it's a reiable source.
• Sentence #2: Accepted It was linked to a personal blog that was quoting from a primary source, violating WP:BLPPRIMARY.

{{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page 23:27, 6 April 2020 (UTC); edited 23:59, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

@Can I Log In: These edits completely satisfy my request. Thank you very much for your time and energy, and thank you also for explaining your decision to me.JosephChenPanz (talk) 08:39, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Sexual harassement by Edward Banayoti

One of the first news articles which appears when searching for the subject is a Daily Mail article [3] concerning how an employment tribunal in the UK found that he sexually harassed an ex-partner who he had employed to work as his senior executive assistant.

I initially ignored this as it is from the Daily Mail which is notoriously unreliable as a source.

However, subsequently, I have come across the official ruling [4] from the tribunal case in question which confirms everything in the Daily Mail secondary source.

I have become increasingly irked by the continued attempts (by the subject of the article) to remove any references to their previous financial misconduct or failed ventures with Malta air, so I fear I have lost objectivity on the matter.

Could I get an opinion on whether the above should be included in the article? I ask myself would it make the article better - to which the answer seems to be "yes" - but would welcome a second or third opinion.

TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 16:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

I think we need to get opinions on whether material on this would need to be based on secondary sources, or whether the primary source (the ruling) is sufficient. If it's the former, it's a problem because the DM seems to be the only news outlet that has covered this. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:14, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. One of the caveats of WP:DAILYMAIL was essentially that if DM could be used, then a more reputable source was likely to have covered it as well. If it's just DM reporting on it, chances are good it's not the best reporting. Primefac (talk) 16:50, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

suggested edits for review

Proposed changes

Edward Banayoti Born Egypt Nationality Canadian Other names Ernest Anderson Ernie Anderson Ashraf Banayoti Alma mater University of Toronto York University Occupation Founder of Defence Unlimited International 'Edward Sawiris Banayoti', H.E. Edward Sawiris Banayoti has a distinguished record of ethical leadership. He is the Founder Executive Chairman of Defence Unlimited International and the CEO of the Canadian League of Lobbyists & Advocacy Professionals (Canada), with its Code of Ethics utilized as a model by various organizations and serves to strengthen the image and enhance the role as a vital & respected link in the Canadian democratic process. Mr. Banayoti is the CEO of the Canadian Association of Political Consultants, which is a professional organization for people working in the field of politics. Raising the standards of practice in political consultation, thereby enhancing the political process & improving public confidence in Canadian politics. Mr. Banayoti is an officer of the Most Venerable Order of St. George, and a member of the Royal Heraldry Society of Canada, the Canadian Centre for Ethics & Corporate Policy and the Middle East Studies Association. He has variously been reported, and has said to be, active in financial investments, real-estate, commercial aviation and lobbying. Newly reported information shows that he has started new ventures in airline safety and security. Career Mr. Banayoti is also a distinguished member & Co-Chairman of the ICDT, an international non-profit organization based in Budapest, Hungary. The Centre collects the experiences of recent democratic transitions and shares them with those who are determined to follow that same path. Focusing on the promotion of democracy, the ICDT has concentrated its efforts on creating concrete and pragmatic goals through collecting and analyzing data, organizing and hosting conferences, drafting and presenting reports, and, perhaps most importantly, by running field-projects in many transition countries. The ICDT has been able to compile the collective and individual experiences of peoples from all around Europe, believing that research, coupled with the expertise of some of the world¹s greatest minds and the practical experience gained through our own transitions, facilitates the use of a toolbox that is instrumental to societies preparing to set off on the difficult path towards a well-functioning democracy. Throughout 25+ years of professional experiences, Edward Banayoti formed Defence Unlimited International, a specialist organization dealing in government, defence, military, and security industries over the world. The Company is a member of the Canadian Association of Defense and Security Industries, which is the voice of the Canadian defence and security industries a sector that employs 109 000 Canadians and generates more than $12.6 billion dollars for the Canadian economy every year. Over the last 3 decades, the company has become a pioneer and continues as a major provider of investment solutions across all asset classes, especially distressed assets. Edward Banayoti established the Silent Circle Corporation (Canada) which produced the only encrypted phone (black phone), he introduced it to the Canadian markets, as well as to many other countries, Cornerstone Holdings Corp in Canada, Edward Banayoti is also the CEO of the Canadian League of Lobbyists & Advocacy professionals. Including that he is a member of National Military Intelligence Association, Edward Banyoti has been a member of the International Board, along with world leaders, and he is a noble member of the International Board of ICDT without forgetting to mention that Edward Banayoti is a subsidizing member to the National Military Intelligence Association. Edward Banayoti is a well-organized and self-motivated leader that approaches problem-solving from a strategic viewpoint, as well as a successful senior defence contractor, and a strong business development provider. Edward currently resides in Europe, mainly between the United Kingdom, France, and Switzerland. Edward Banayoti is known to be a trusted voice by so many heads of states, and world leaders in addition to many world leaders. Personal life As Ernest Anderson, Banayoti was previously married twice and has two children. References External links Official website

Discussion of current content deletion of content and or additions

Above posted information is intended to have a conversation regarding edits to possibly include in current page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suwritter251 (talk • contribs)

Could provide a summary of what (and why) you are wanting consensus for? Don't forget to sign with ~~~~  Darth Flappy ^«Talk» 23:34, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there's not really anything in this suggested text that is suitable for Wikipedia. Wording such as "has a distinguished record of ethical leadership" isn't encylopedic. Please see WP:NPOV. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:45, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

I would respectfully put forth that a section is made called "Controversy" in light of how the previous author has written the article, it would seem more gossip than a neutral perspective. I would additionally put forth the thought to any writer that encourages this type of deformation without being willing to look at other sides, of the issue. How damaging and impactful things of this nature can be? Let's think about if it was you that had a poorly written segment about them, and you remained powerless in a way that you could not get inaccurate or misinterpreted language taken down or the other side of it advocated spoken of. Does it take a magnitude of thirteen days of protesting demanding change, to get the attention of a select group of people who will not consider anything other than what a small community wants to put forth? Suwritter251 (talk)

Protected edit request on 7 June 2020

Suggested edits,

Proposed edits

Career After graduating from the University of Toronto with an accounting degree and finishing schooling at York University in Ontario, Banayoti began his business career in the real estate and hotels sector. He has since established the Silent Circle Corporation in Canada, a sales agent for encrypted phones (black phones), among other global business ventures. In 1990, Banayoti founded the arms brokerage company Defence Unlimited. The company is registered as an organisation on the EU list of lobbies as of 2017Career and is listed as a "broker of military assets" able to deliver various military hardware, such as ships, hand-held weapons, radar systems and armored vehicles, as well as specialized defence related training.Career Banayoti now serves as the executive chairman of Defense Unlimited. He also maintains CEO roles with Cornerstone Holdings Corp, the Canadian Association of Political Consultants (CAPC), the Canadian Defence Export Control, and the League of Lobbyists & Advocacy Professionals in the United Kingdom. He is a member of the Canadian Centre for Ethics and Corporate Policy, and served as co-chairman on the international board of the International Centre for Democratic Transition (ICDT) based in Budapest, Hungary. Controversy Banayoti attracted media attention in Malta in 2016 when he made a bid for a 49.9% stake in Air Malta through his UK company Banayoti Holdings Limited.Controversy The company had been registered earlier in 2016 with a share capital of EUR 1.85 billion which was never paid up, according to the company accounts.Controversy Banayoti is reported to have met only once with the Maltese government, after which his offer was rejected with a government spokesperson claiming that a standard due diligence search on Banayoti and his companies "clearly showed, even at a preliminary stage, that his companies would not match government plans to identify a strategic partner which can assure a positive turnaround for Air Malta”Controversy Banayoti Holdings Limited was dissolved in 2018.Controversy The press coverage from this failed bid brought Banyoti to the attention of Maltese investigative journalist and anti-corruption activist Daphne Caruana Galizia, who investigated his prior business dealings in Canada under his former name Ernie or Ernest Anderson.Controversy According to the article, in 2005 the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) opened an investigation into Banayoti's company Golden Gate Funds, an unlicensed investment firm marketing its products to the public.Controversy More than 150 investors collectively invested over $8-million into this fund managed by Banayoti (known as Ernest Anderson at the time), before the company went bankrupt. A case was heard before an OSC tribunal and a settlement was agreed in 2009 in which Banayoti acknowledged using investor funds not to invest in mortgages, as he told investors, but to cover operating costs and make payments to previous investors. As part of the settlement, the OSC demanded $4.7-million in monetary penalties.Controversy As of January 2012, the full amount of the penalties remained unpaid. Controversy Personal life Banayoti was born to an Egyptian father and Greek Mother. As Ernest Anderson, he was previously married.Personal life In 2015, Banayoti changed his name from Ernest Anderson to Edward BanayotiPersonal life In January 2016, Banayoti married Jordainian Princess Aisha Bint Al Hussein.Personal life When he converted to Islam, he took the Muslim name Ashraf Banayoti, but goes by his legal name, Edward Banayoti. The couple divorced in Jordan in July 2016.Personal life

Suwritter251 (talk) 21:52, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Like I said on your other request (without the edit request template) could you provide a summary of what (and why) you are wanting consensus for? Thanks!  Darth Flappy ^«Talk» 23:05, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. Jack Frost (talk) 00:57, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Ideas and Conversation

I would respectfully put forth that a section is made called "Controversy" in light of how the previous author has written the article, it would seem more gossip than a neutral perspective. I would additionally put forth the thought to any writer that encourages this type of deformation without being willing to look at other sides, of the issue. How damaging and impactful things of this nature can be? Let's think about if it was you that had a poorly written segment about them, and you remained powerless in a way that you could not get inaccurate or misinterpreted language taken down or the other side of it advocated spoken of. Does it take a magnitude of thirteen days of protesting demanding change, to get the attention of a select group of people who will not consider anything other than what a small community wants to put forth?

Suwritter251 (talk)SUWRITTER251Suwritter251 (talk)

Suwritter251 (talk) 22:07, 7 June 2020 (UTC)SUWRITTER251Suwritter251 (talk) 22:07, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 7 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: speedy close. This is a non-starter of a proposal because there is no way that the article title will be changed to the proposed name. Primefac (talk) 00:55, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

---

Edward Banayoti → Edward Banayoti article – The article referenced as Edward Banayoti should be rename for several reasons. First and foremost the article starts out with Edward Sawiris Banayoti, this is not within the naming parameters of normal guidance, 1 the article could be changed to Edward_Sawiris_Banayoti 2. We can assume a majority of searchers would be directed to Edward Banayoti, page. The current article with the title Edward Sawiris Banayoti, has limited information the article could be renamed as an article, and not Biographical, as such should be renamed. More over google searches of this information rates Wikipedia at the top of any information regarding this individual. Suwritter251 (talk) 23:15, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

You may want to read WP:AT  Darth Flappy ^«Talk» 23:21, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

---

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed Edits

Requesting the proposed previous edits be added to the bio, and it is placed under semi-protected mode to ensure authors, editors have a chance to discuss before, it becomes reverted please see past history, regarding attempts at having a respectful conversation regarding edits.

2601:441:467F:65C0:DD98:574F:67E9:F525 (talk) 03:50, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

No need to preemptively protect, you can just start a discussion on these edits. – Thjarkur (talk) 12:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Changes Required

*Challenge on References with Changes Requested*

Issues with referenced source material is listed below for consideration:

^ "Arms dealer Ed Banayoti partners with MetOcean". 2018-04-11. Question this source as it is behind a firewall, requires payment, could say anything - could information regarding the validity of the source be provided?

^ "Defence consultant Edward Banayoti sets up EU base in Malta". MaltaToday.com.mt. Retrieved 2020-04-06. This reference is in the summary section and is used to reference the following material "He was the subject of a financial investigation for suspicion of fake mortgage deals through his unlicensed Canadian investment company Golden Gate Funds LP,[3] and entered into a settlement with the Ontario Securities Commission in 2009, agreeing to pay $4.7-million in financial penalties." However the source does not mention this at all and should be removed. It is directly citing that article - if one was to read the article they would come to the same conclusion.

^ Camilleri, Ivan (2016-11-13). "New offer to buy into Air Malta". Times of Malta. Retrieved 2019-06-16. The source does mention that Mr Banayoti submitted a bid. However I do question that if this source is being used why aren't other details within the article being utilised within this article? Am interested if this direct quote was just used and whether it is neutral given the rest of the context of the article.

^ Jump up to: a b c d Vella, Matthew (2019-04-09). "Defence consultant Edward Banayoti sets up EU base in Malta". I reference this source as it is used in the statement "The press coverage from this failed bid brought Banyoti to the attention of Maltese investigative journalist and anti-corruption activist Daphne Caruana Galizia, who investigated his prior business dealings in Canada under his former name Ernie or Ernest Anderson." However if you were to read this source and the one labelled [8], there is in fact not reference to Daphne Caruana Galizia in these source materials. It should be removed as it is inaccurate and could be considered in breach of Wikipedia's policy on Libellous Material. Why this statement has also been added into this article is questionable.

The next statement: "According to the article, in 2005 the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) opened an investigation into Banayoti's company Golden Gate Funds, an unlicensed investment firm marketing its products to the public.[5][9]" - source 5 has no relevance to this and should be removed as a reference to this statement.

^ Jump up to: a b "Banayoti Holdings Limited - Company filing history". UK companies house. This section indicates that the accounts were never paid up however the incorporation occured on the 04/07/2016 and notification about the shares occured on the 31/07/2017 - the dates provide context on this matter as on the 14/11/2016 Malta Today (a news organisation that has sources in this article) reported that those conversations had ended (source: https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/71612/tourism_ministry_denies_air_malta_talks_ongoing_with_banayoti_holdings_ltd#.XvSqIpMzZBw) - this would give context on why this occurred - either add the additional information or remove it all together as it could be considered Libellous Material under your policy. It's not a conflict of interest to request clarity on topics.

^ Camilleri, Ivan (2016-11-18). "No go on Air Malta offer, now it's back to Brussels". Times of Malta. Retrieved 2019-06-17. This section includes the statement "Banayoti is reported to have met only once with the Maltese government, after which his offer was rejected with a government spokesperson claiming that a standard due diligence search on Banayoti and his companies "clearly showed, even at a preliminary stage, that his companies would not match government plans to identify a strategic partner which can assure a positive turnaround for Air Malta” however there are some inaccuracies within this statement. Firstly, according to the source, "The Sunday Times of Malta reported that, during the summer months, top government officials, including Prime Minister Joseph Muscat, had discussed a possible partial sale of Air Malta to Banayoti Holdings Ltd, a UK-based company, which, according to its owner, Edward Banayoti, held substantial business interests, particularly in Canada and the US". Whereas the statement made indicates that he met with the government once. Whilst the next statement in the article does indicate that Mr Banayoti met with Tourism Minister Edward Zammit Lewis once, that is not what the statement within the article indicates. In addition the statement within the article appears to have been cherry picked - the full quote actually reads "After the meeting, as happens with any potential investor, the government commissioned a due diligence report on Mr Banayoti and his companies, results of which clearly showed, even at a preliminary stage, that his companies would not match government plans to identify a strategic partner which can assure a positive turnaround for Air Malta,” she added". That would provide further context - the way the statement is worded indicates a different version of events. Additionally, from the same source, the statement "While confirming that Mr Banayoti had made an official offer for Air Malta following separate discussions with the Prime Minister, his chief of staff, Keith Schembri, and senior Cabinet ministers, the spokesman said he was told to wait until discussions with Alitalia were over so that the government could start official discussions with him." would provide further context to the events and support that he didn't meet with one person and that he did have contact with multiple people.

^ Jump up to: a b ""Government Notices — Other: Change of Name Act". www.ontario.ca. Retrieved 2019-06-16. The source material makes no reference to Ernest - should be removed as it was added for no particular reason and is not part of the material.

^ Jump up to: a b Popyk, Tom (2010-04-24). "Golden Gate Funds leaves a trail of lost investments". Does make reference to being married - concede that is a valid point. Whilst the source is referenced correctly I would like to point out that other quotes from Mr Banayoti were not utilised in the article such as "In an e-mail to W5, Ernest Anderson wrote, "What went wrong, market conditions, miss organization (sic) at the time I left the company to by ran by other (sic) while I had to deal to some personal issues." In a later statement Anderson also said: "I am very sorry for all of the investors who lost money with Golden Gate, I am sorry, that my family lost all of the life savings and inheritance in Golden Gate." This would provide a balance with quotes which would be considered fair - if the article is to be considered neutral then a quote from Mr Banayoti would be appropriate, whereas in its current form it could be questioned as not meeting that standard.

^ "Profile of registrant - Defence Unlimited International Corp". EU Transparency Register. The source is accurate however the article says it is "listed as" whereas the paragraph included is actually under the section 'Goals/Remit'. If the article was referencing what Defence Unlimited International is "listed as" then wouldn't it be more reliable to include "Security, and Defence Supplies. Lobbying, and Political Consulting. EU military progress and licensing procedures. Implementation of Fire Arms licensing, and military overview including distressed EU assets in the security and defence supplies" or "Lobbying, and political Consulting. DU has in-house expertise in defence and security strategies and closely monitors the EU process and progress in this matter" which are listed under 'Specific Activities Covered by the Register'.

^ "CANADA : Arms broker Banayoti woos EU". Intelligence Online. 2017-04-05. Retrieved 2017-11-30. Question this source as it is behind a firewall, requires payment, could say anything - could information regarding the validity of the source be provided? Might be other sources that provide this information.

^ "Princess Aisha Bint Al Hussein Gets Married". Arabia Weddings. 2016-01-29. Retrieved 2017-11-30. I question the inclusion of this source as it appears to be a wedding website/blog that might be against Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources.

^ "Princess Aisha, Edward Banayoti divorced". Jordan Times. 2016-07-01. Retrieved 2017-11-30. Whilst this article is posted on 'The Jordan Times' website I do question the validity of the source as it is only two sentences. This source contains the same information [5] and additionally provides clarity surrounding the wedding itself "the union of the younger sister of King Abdullah II of Jordan and her companion had been celebrated in private only a few months before , on January 27, during a ceremony organized at the home of the mother of the bride, Princess Muna al-Hussein (née Antoinette Gardiner), in the presence in particular of the sovereign and his wife Queen Rania, who had attended the signing of the marriage contract. No details were given as to the reasons which led to its rapid dissolution." = this statement should be added to the article.

*Other Changes*

Under the Summary Field

(1)

Currently: Edward Sawiris Banayoti, formerly known as Ernest (Ernie) Anderson and also known as Ashraf Banayoti, is a businessman of Egyptian origin based in Canada.[2]

Requested Change: Edward Sawiris Banayoti, formerly known as Ernest (Ernie) Anderson and Ashraf Banayoti, is a businessman of Egyptian origin based in Canada. Reason: The way that it is currently worded can be viewed as not being neutral and has the feeling of an unconscious bias that could be viewed as racially motivated.

 Done Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

(2)

Currently He was the subject of a financial investigation for suspicion of fake mortgage deals through his unlicensed Canadian investment company Golden Gate Funds LP,[3] and entered into a settlement with the Ontario Securities Commission in 2009, agreeing to pay $4.7-million in financial penalties.

Requested ChangeRemoval or change

Removal as the use of this statement in the summary field immediately demonstrates that the article is not neutral and starts with an immediate bias which is against Wikipedia's Policy on Neutrality. Also the citation included next to that statement does not actually reference that material as noted above.

Change If the statement is to change then it should be proceeded with what the subjects current business ownership is and that should be based on information that is available. A suggested change could be "Edward Banayoti is currently the CEO of Cornerstone Holdings Corp and Founder of Defence Unlimited International". Defence Unlimited International is cited within the article already and Cornerstone Holdings Corp can be cited at the following source - these sources are reliable and meet the standards laid down in the Wikipedia Policy.

 Partly done - I agree that the level of detail was too much for the LEAD. I have attempted to follow MOS:INTRO in rewriting to summarize the issues. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

(3)

Currently He has variously been reported, and has said to be, active in financial investments, real-estate, commercial aviation, arms dealing and lobbying.

Requested Change Removal - not cited and language could be seen as not neutral. Could be seen to imply illegitimacy.

✗ Not done that information seems supported by the sources in the body. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Under the Career Section

(1)

Currently "Banayoti attracted media attention in Malta in 2016 when he made a bid for a 49.9% stake in Air Malta through his UK company Banayoti Holdings Limited.[4][5] The company had been registered earlier in 2016 with a share capital of EUR 1.85 billion which was never paid up, according to the company accounts.[6] Banayoti is reported to have met only once with the Maltese government, after which his offer was rejected with a government spokesperson claiming that a standard due diligence search on Banayoti and his companies "clearly showed, even at a preliminary stage, that his companies would not match government plans to identify a strategic partner which can assure a positive turnaround for Air Malta”

“‘Requested Change”’ Banayoti attracted media attention in Malta in 2016 when he made a bid for a 49.9% stake in Air Malta through his UK company Banayoti Holdings Limited. The company had been registered earlier in 2016 with a share capital of EUR 1.85 billion which was not funded after negotiations ended in November 2016 with the Maltese Government according to company accounts from 31st July 2017. The Sunday Times of Malta reported that, during the summer months, top government officials, including Prime Minister Joseph Muscat, had discussed a possible partial sale of Air Malta to Banayoti Holdings Ltd, a UK-based company, which, according to its owner, Edward Banayoti, held substantial business interests, particularly in Canada and the US. After the meeting, as happens with any potential investor, the government commissioned a due diligence report on Mr Banayoti and his companies, results of which clearly showed, even at a preliminary stage, that his companies would not match government plans to identify a strategic partner which can assure a positive turnaround for Air Malta. While confirming that Mr Banayoti had made an official offer for Air Malta following separate discussions with the Prime Minister, his chief of staff, Keith Schembri, and senior Cabinet ministers, the spokesman said he was told to wait until discussions with Alitalia were over so that the government could start official discussions with him.

Provides context on the previous statement and removes the incorrect information that has been previously reported within the article. The source also confirms this as previously stated.

✗ Not done This seems too detailed and not supported by sourcing. Some elements of this, if supported by a RS, might be appropriate for inclusion. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

(2)

‘’’Currently’’’ “Banayoti Holdings Limited was dissolved in 2018”

‘’’Requested Change’’’ None, the statement is factual.

(3)

‘’’Currently’’’ “The press coverage from this failed bid brought Banyoti to the attention of Maltese investigative journalist and anti-corruption activist Daphne Caruana Galizia, who investigated his prior business dealings in Canada under his former name Ernie or Ernest Anderson. According to the article, in 2005 the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) opened an investigation into Banayoti's company Golden Gate Funds, an unlicensed investment firm marketing its products to the public”.

Requested Change According to the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC), they opened an investigation in 2005 into Golden Gate Funds which was an unlicensed firm marketing its products to the public”. Change removes an unfactual comment made within the statement that does not appear in the source cited or any other sources within the article and keeps the comment factual.

 Done Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

(4)

‘’’Currently’’’ “More than 150 investors collectively invested over $8-million into this fund managed by Banayoti (known as Ernest Anderson at the time), before the company went bankrupt. A case was heard before an OSC tribunal and a settlement was agreed in 2009 in which Banayoti acknowledged using investor funds not to invest in mortgages, as he told investors, but to cover operating costs and make payments to previous investors. As part of the settlement, the OSC demanded $4.7-million in monetary penalties.[10][11] As of January 2012, the full amount of the penalties remained unpaid. [12]"

‘’’Requested Change’’’ Keep the existing statement but add at the end of the statement the following - "In an e-mail to W5, Ernest Anderson wrote, "What went wrong, market conditions, miss organization (sic) at the time I left the company to by ran by other (sic) while I had to deal to some personal issues." In a later statement Anderson also said: "I am very sorry for all of the investors who lost money with Golden Gate, I am sorry, that my family lost all of the life savings and inheritance in Golden Gate.” - previously stated reason above, provides neutrality as per Wikipedia’s policy.

✗ Not done - no source provided for these statements. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

(4)

Currently “In 2015, Banayoti changed his name from Ernest Anderson to Edward Banayoti[8] and founded the arms brokerage company Defence Unlimited in Malta. The company is registered as an organisation on the EU list of lobbies as of 2017[5] and is listed as a "broker of military assets" able to deliver various military hardware, such as ships, hand-held weapons, radar systems and armored vehicles, as well as specialized defence related training.”

‘’’Requested Change’’’ “In 2015, Banayoti changed his name from Ernie Anderson to Edward Banayoti and founded the arms brokerage company Defence Unlimited. The company is registered as an organisation on the EU list of lobbies as of 2017 and is listed as supplying “Security, and Defence Supplies. Lobbying, and Political Consulting. EU military progress and licensing procedures. Implementation of Fire Arms licensing, and military overview including distressed EU assets in the security and defence supplies" or "Lobbying, and political Consulting. DU has in-house expertise in defence and security strategies and closely monitors the EU process and progress in this matter”.

 Partly done - too extensive of listing becomes promotional rather than informative. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Under the Personal Life Section

(1) CurrentlyIn January 2016, Banayoti married Princess Aisha Bint Al Hussein.[14][15] When he converted to Islam, he took the Muslim name Ashraf Banayoti, but goes by his legal name, Edward Banayoti. The couple divorced in Jordan in July 2016. Requested Change "On 27th January 2016 in a private ceremony, Edward Banayoti and Princess Aisha Bint Al Hussein married during a private ceremony organised at the home of Princess Muna Al-Hussein in the presence of the Sovereign, King Abdullah II of Jordan and Queen Rania, who attended the signing of the marriage. Six months after marrying, the couple were divorced.". The new changes provide greater context on the marriage and how it occurred. Edward Banayoti took the name Ashraf when he converted to Islam for the wedding" The source is more reliable than the ones that have been previously utilised.

 Partly done - Again too detailed but I agree with the general idea you've submitted here. I also agree that the source you've provided was superior to some of what had been there. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Additional Information It could be argued that, with the requested changes above, that the article be deleted as Wikipedia's own policy states "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion". I would argue that this article could meet the above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial (talk • contribs) 15:18, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial - are you familiar with Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines and Wikimedia's legal Terms of Use regarding paid contributions to Wikipedia? I would suggest you review them both and, should either of them be relevant to you, that you make the appropriate disclosures as per Wikipedia policy and guidelines.

I would also advise you to read WP:PAYTALK which is particularly relevant here, which states that: "No editor should be expected to engage in long or repetitive discussions with someone who is being paid to argue with them. Editors who refuse to accept a consensus by arguing ad nauseam may find themselves in violation of the disruptive-editing guideline". TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 11:36, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

–TheSLEEVEmonkey - I have added the necessary disclosure at the top of this post, would you be able to review the text and let me know the changes willing to be made. I have reviewed the post in the most neutral sense and had a peer review the neutrality of what I wrote. It is a fair request for changes to be made. I would question if such changes aren't considered if there may be a conflict of interest on the other end.§ — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial (talk • contribs) 07:07, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Please assume good faith, EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial. I can see no evidence that any editor attempting to deal with your requests has a conflict of interest here. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:35, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

@EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial: I've responded to your edit requests above. If you feel the article should be deleted I could talk you through how to do that process but I do not feel comfortable nominating it myself. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

@Barkeep49: Would you be able to help me with deletion process? — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial (talk • contribs) 10:36, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

References

Deletion Request

{{Proposed deletion/dated
  |concern = article does not adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy and could be considered libellious
  |timestamp = 20200930095014
  |nom = EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial
  |help = 
}}

— Preceding unsigned comment added by EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial (talk • contribs) 09:50, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm assuming this is meant to be an edit request, but unfortunately this article cannot be PRODded because it was already nominated for deletion at AFD (and kept). If there are improvements to be made, feel free to propose them. Primefac (talk) 11:47, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

@EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial: Please review Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edward Banayoti, where deletion was discussed previously. If you feel that the decision to keep this article did not address Wikipedia policies and guidelines sufficiently, you may start a new discussion; see WP:AFD for guidance. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:17, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Revert the lead section back to the consensus version before the vandalism

Please could we revert it back to the way it was here?: https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Edward_Banayoti&oldid=970450916

This was the consensus version after a lot of debate on the talk page and somehow it has become changed through the persistent vandalism.

I would do it however have been away from editing for an extended period of time so do not have authorization to edit sorry.

The sockpuppets and COI editors have managed to remove reference in the lead to the individual's former name and the thing he is most noteworthy for (the financial investigation in Canada and the resulting penalty). This is obviously better for the individual when you google his name, which is presumably why it has been done.

TheSLEEVEmonkey (talk) 11:02, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

@TheSLEEVEmonkey:,

you may edit the page yourself, so go in if it's justified, it's true many COI trials have been carried out here.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:11, 26 January 2021 (UTC))

I've now reverted the changes made by the various accounts identified at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Serghiy Hrabarook. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 February 2021

Considerable concern regarding the statement below, recommend that this be removed as it is not supported by facts: "Banayoti is also a distinguished member & Co-Chairman of the ICDT, an international non-profit organization based in Budapest, Hungary. The Centre collects the experiences of recent democratic transitions and shares them with those who are determined to follow that same path. Focusing on the promotion of democracy, the ICDT has concentrated its efforts on creating concrete and pragmatic goals through collecting and analysing data, organizing and hosting conferences, drafting and presenting reports, and, perhaps most importantly, by running field-projects in many transition countries.[5] Banayoti is an officer of the Order of St. George, and a member of the Royal Heraldry Society of Canada, the Canadian Centre for Ethics & Corporate Policy and the Middle East Studies Association. Banayoti also is a member of The Association of Schools of Political Studies, C.D. Howe Institute and a contributing member to the National Military Intelligence Association. Since 2012, Banayoti is a member of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, Council of Canadians and the Canadian International Council (CIC). He serving is an Associate at the International Institute for Strategic Studies.[8]"

The sources attached do not support this statement at any point (please view the sources). In addition links to these do not support these statements. If you visit the websites of the above mentioned, the name Edward Banayoti does not appear on any of these sites and the ones that do are not primary websites - for example, there appears to be two versions of the IDCT website - one official and one fake. EmmnauelCalaveraOfficial (talk) 07:46, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

I've removed the material as part of a more general removal of content added recently by sockpuppets. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:23, 16 February 2021 (UTC)